Topic: Just took my 1st Raintree Cat's Claw........ Can you shed some light on my reaction?
robi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5547
posted
I was in pain befoer I took it and now the pain has increased like 5 fold. It happened with in 15 minutes. REALLLLLLLLLLLYYYY deep muscle aches. Even the roof of my mouth aches. HAnds and feet are killing me ............. Head is crawling......
I only took 1 capsule!!!! I have been doing chinese herbs the last few months. They contain andrographis and other antispirochetal agents ....... So I did not think 1 cat's claw would throw me into this much pain?
Advice? Help? Is this really possible that one cat's claw can do this or is this coincidental?
Suffering, robi
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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ConnieMc
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 191
posted
Hey!
That is really weird. Probably only way to tell is to do it again once you recover from this dose. Maybe wait 24 hours.
Also, you might want to research known allergic responses to it. drugs.com also includes some herbs and vitamins. Plug it in there and see what you get.
lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
It revs up the immune system.
Same thing happens with me. I can only tollerate small doses or else Im sleeping and burning the whole time.
Good Luck, hope you feel better.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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runner21
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1974
posted
Hi Robi
Cats claw can kill many things. I would make sure that its not too much for your body to handle right now. do you have someone who can muscle test you? Also , its important to mop up the dead things with something that binds. I usually take a fiber formula or clay. Runner
Posts: 1118 | From jacksonville,fl usa/santa rosa ca | Registered: Dec 2001
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Carol in PA
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Member # 5338
posted
Robi, As you know, cat's claw increases the number and activity of the white cells that "eat" the Lyme bacteria.
When the Lyme spirochetes are killed, they release their cell walls and contents into the body, which act as endotoxins, causing Lyme symtoms. The liver cleans out, or detoxes, the toxins in the blood, so the symptoms wax and wane.
Frankly, I don't see how cat's claw could have increased the body's white cell activity in 15 minutes. Which is NOT to say that you didn't have a herx that quickly. Obviously it did SOMETHING.
I can think of two things that might help. One is to take Sarsaparilla along with the cat's claw, as Stephen Buhner suggests in "Healing Lyme."
This herb binds with endotoxins in the blood, which should reduce Lyme symptoms.
The other thing is to reduce the dose of cat's claw the next time you take it. Hah -- I bet you'll really think about taking it again, since you had such pronounced symptoms the first time.
Personally, I have a terrible time taking a med or a supplement that causes me pain or problems. I have a whole bunch of things just sitting in a box in the back room, waiting until I can work up my nerve to try them again.
Fortunately, cat's claw has not done this to me. In fact, one time when I was upset, I discontinued all my supplements. I kept going downhill, until six weeks later I realized that I WAS getting worse, it wasn't in my head. (I've got stupiditis, it takes me a while to figure things out.) I started the cat's claw again, and my downhill slide decreased.
Do you have something for pain to ease the muscle aches? Milk thistle will support liver function, which you want to do, as the liver cleans out the dead spirochetes.
I hope you feel better soon. Carol
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Robi...Im takeing six-caps a day plus three Sarsaparilla.All I get are headachs and minor nuro symtoms.Sounds like it tipped you into a herx. Alan
-------------------- Charter member of the ~ Delux Toasting Club ~ Our Moto: "Take No Prisoners" Posts: 95 | From San Diego | Registered: Nov 2005
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johnnyb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7645
posted
Cat's Claw increases CD57 levels, which helps your immune system fight. There is a test to check your levels, since lyme can cause a low CD57 count. There's more detailed info on this out there (and a lot on this site too). My LLMD has me take a bromelain and a cat's claw together on an empty stomach 3x / day.
Posts: 1197 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Hubby had similar reactions to this on andrographis.
In my opinion, you are herxing.
And yes, the immune system can go into hyperdrive as soon as whatever you are taking is absorbed (a doc confirmed this to hubby)-- hubby used to have increased seizure-like activity within 30 - 60 minutes after every dose of transfer factor specific to Lyme.
He herxes after every dose of oral colloidal silver (Argentyn 23) as well -- usually within an hour.
Basically he herxes on almost every med or herb that is supposed to work on Lyme -- except for the Cat's claw. Have wondered if it is because we are using the cheapest brand.
Just go slow. For some things hubby seems to build up a tolerance and be able to increase the dose -- with other things he can't ever get over the reaction.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Truthfinder
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posted
As I recall, Samento/ Cat's Claw is similar in action to the quinolone antibiotics, which can cause some MAJOR connective tissue problems in a small group of individuals.
Because of that, I would go cautiously with this.
It could just be a local bug going around and you were unlucky enough to have it at the same time you started the Cat's Claw.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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char
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Member # 8315
posted
Sent PM.
Posts: 1230 | From US | Registered: Nov 2005
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robi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5547
posted
Thanks for the quick replies and advice. It is good to know I am probably just herxing. I have taken a total of 3 cat's claws now. One more last night and one ths AM. I get the same reaction after each one so I know its the cats claw. I feel better about 3 to 4 hours after the pill.
I will keep on with one at a time until this subsides considerably.
The support here gets me through ...... thanks ya'll!!!
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Truthfinder: As I recall, Samento/ Cat's Claw is similar in action to the quinolone antibiotics, which can cause some MAJOR connective tissue problems in a small group of individuals.
Because of that, I would go cautiously with this.
Tracy
NO Tracy, Cat's Claw is NOT similar in action to the quinolone antibiotics. NOT related at all. NO, NO, NO!!!
However, I DO agree to go cautiously. I started out with just ONE a DAY, for a week. THEN TWO a day for a week, THEN three a day for a week, THEN six a day for a week, until I got up to 12 a day. ANd did that for four months, along WITH a whole bunch of OTHER herbs, too.
IF you are NOT taking good doses of Red Root tincture EVERY DAY, the DO IT, too. Very important, along with Milk Thistle AND Sarsaparilla EVERY DAY. NEVER MISS. PERIOD.
AND even take MORE of it IF necessary at times. IT WORKS.
I got OFF of Buhner's protocols a couple of weeks ago, by taking Coptis, and had already been off of it, by taking Olive Leaf, Oregano, AND Garlic and got into big time trouble. THAT was terrible, and I HOPE I NEVER have to go through that again.
I am MUCH better now, however by cutting back on most of my herbs, a lot of my Lyme symptoms are back also, so have been upping the amount by 50% the last couple of days, and it HAS helped. I will go back up to Buhner's max IF I have to again.
I would NOT take ANY of the herbs recommended by Buhner without the Sarsaparilla, for sure. IT will help a lot in keeping your herxes down. ALSO You MUST start out slow on herbs to get your body used to them. It DOES get better, really.
IF you are not doing it, I would be sure to add the Andrographis, Resveratrol, and Devil's Claw too. BUt ALSO start out slow on each one. You can start out with all together, IF you like, but maybe for the first day, just use one, then next day drop it and take other. See if any side effects for you.
We are ALL different and will have different reactions at times. BUt you SHOULD adapt after awhile, usually, unless a particular herb is NOT for you.
Coptis was terrible for me. However after 30 days, I am going to try it again, but SLOWER this time at first and watch very close HOW I feel.
PLUS, I won't be using the WRONG herbs I was using, that were NOT part of BUhner's protocol. AND I will probably drop Andrographis at least a day before I start the Coptis.
Hang in there Robi, and take your time, SLOOOWWWW is the word.
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Truthfinder: As I recall, Samento/ Cat's Claw is similar in action to the quinolone antibiotics, which can cause some MAJOR connective tissue problems in a small group of individuals.
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
JimBob, the jury is still out on this.
I thought there was another thread here in the last 2 or 3 months - other than the one 777 provided - where people posted ACTUAL EXPERIENCES with cat's claw/ Samento that were very similar to their connective tissue problems and experiences with the quinolones. I can't seem to find that other thread.
Whenever I see REAL PEOPLE experience something I have seen warnings about, I pay attention.
Sometimes science can't tell us everything. After all, according to the laws of physics, bumble bees should not be able to fly.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
quinovic+acids+quinolone search 1. In addition, this Chemotype contains quinovic acid glycosides - compounds with strong natural antibiotic properties (the latest generations of conventional synthetic antibiotics ``Quinolones'' are based on quinovic acid glycosides), which further enhance the medicinal effect of Samento in fighting the infection.
2.Prima Una de Gato contains cat's claw (Uncaria tomentosa) extract standardized to a minimum of 0.5% pentacyclic oxindole alkaloids (POAs) and is 100% free of tetracyclic oxindole alkaloids (TOAs). Research suggests that the active POAs may affect the immune cells responsible for nonspecific and cellular immunity. Prima Una de Gato also contains quinovic acid glycosides, the natural compounds upon which synthetic quinolones are based. Cat's claw has been used to help promote systemic microbial balance and is thought to support antioxidant activity and circulation. Prima Una de Gato contains added minerals and enzymes to enhance absorption and activity.
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