posted
I think it is Dr Cheney who did some research on antidepressants and how they effect the brain - something about pin-holes and damage...
And we know that the Lyme spirochete does damage to the brain and spinal cord and Central Nervous System, among others.
Plus Mercury deposits from decades of Mercury-filled teth (altho I have chelated the body burden).
Plus medications such as steroids given to people with Lyme has been shown to dramatically hasten the debilitating effects of the Lyme somehow...
So I think about these things as I pose the following qwuestion:
Over time, I have learned that my depression is often related to my Lyme cycles. Right now, Lyme is active and I am depressed.
When I take the antibiotics, I feel better and the depresion lifts. On the other hand, I am in a situation that is depressing and to be depressed is a "normal" response.
When I take antibiotics, (and even when I don't) I suffer incredible physical pain and when I herx from the antibiotics, it pain is amplified 10-50 times. I take pain medications. Pain adds to any depression I may already be experiencing or may create a depression if I am feeling ok when the herx starts up.
My Dr handed me Cymbalta for the depression and now I am trying to decide if I want to medicate the depression which is really a normal response to a miserable living situation, and chronic pain.
What do you all think of antidepressants when the patient has neuro-Lyme, late stage neuroborreliosis?
Any suggestions? On another Topic here, someone mentioned a muscle relaxant that had neuro effects - what was it and what are "neuro-effects" when referring to a medication? Ideas? Thanks, *BugBit*
Posts: 116 | From Bisbee, AZ USA | Registered: Sep 2005
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About 3 weeks ago I was horridly depressed. I sobbed constantly about everything. I got worried about myself and the thoughts in my head so I went to see my gen. doc.
She wanted to put me on Paxil...which is also a SSRI (same as Cymbalta, Zoloft..)
I took one does, the next day I felt like I was on crack. I was jittery, anxiety got worse, stomach was killing my...it was really stiff.
It also made my spine burn even more than it already was from the Lyme.
I know alot of it could have been from the side effects that you are supposed to deal with for the first 2 weeks, but there was no way I could have handled that for that long.
My advice is to let your body tell you. Try to take it, and see how you react.
If its the pain that gets you depressed you may want to try a muscle relaxer instead. I've gotten no side effects from these at all except drowsiness.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Indeed a touchey subject...what to do when one feels it is a normal reaction to being soooo sick all the time and in pain...
I even had one llmd tell me to "quit feeling sorry for myself" when I proposed this very question to him...he's no longer my doctor.
Any way...I went thru a lot of different ssri's and antidepressants before finding one that works for me...
Paxil was one that I did not like or did not like me...
I take lexapro...but like everything else...everyone is different and will have different results...
I read a LONG time ago that we lymies have got to take BABY doses of psychotropic drugs cuz we seem to be ultra sensitive to these particular medications.
Yep it's trial and error time for ya...
There is also literature concerning folks with chronic conditions and PTSD perpetuating themselves...
So using an ssri may break the cycle for you...
I personally would get so manic and then depressed that I had to do something and am now regulated.
I will also take some flexeril for the muscle pains I get after I have been active.
It could be suggested that a valium might have an effect on some of your pain also!
Again...trial and error.
Hope this helps a little.
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
A neurologist prescribed an SSRI for me to try to stop the continuous migraines. She had no idea about the Lyme.
It did help some, once we got the dose high enough.
I was a better mother to my children, because it reduced my perception of the pain. The pain was still there, but it didn't hurt as much.
It improved my self control, and I could stop screaming whenever things got out of hand.
It almost cured my PMS, although that wasn't one of its recognized uses at the time.
I didn't realize that I had Obsessive compulsive tendencies, until the medication reduced them. Hmmmmm.....
It pretty much stopped the mood swings. I used to cry at the drop of a hat. Sitting in church and listening to the soloist brought tears streaming down my face...very embarrassing for me, although no one else noticed.
I did try stopping the medication at one point...what a mistake.
The level of pain shot up. I couldn't believe how much I hurt all over. I was screaming at every provocation. After a couple days, I was crying all the time over nothing.
I got the prescription for it refilled as soon as I could.
If a med can help you, it's worth the side effects. It all depends on what you're willing to put up with, and how motivated you are.
Carol
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Obviously this has to be a personal choice -- and there aren't any long-term studies on many of the antidepressants because they are so new...many have side effects, certainly there are risks...
That said, Paxil saved me from a horrendous depression about 12 years ago -- I might literally be dead without it. ( I had lyme then but didn't know it.) It also stopped the paralyzing panic attacks I'd been having.
I'm currently taking Cymbalta (actually an SSNRI -- it works on the reuptake of serotonin and norepinephrine, as opposed to the SSRIs which just work on serotonin) and I honestly *do* think it has helped my pain. (I wasn't depressed when I started it, so can't comment on that part...) I haven't had any side effects at all that I can tell -- and I suspect it has evened out some of the mood swings I likely would have had during the first few bad herxes, but that is just a guess....
With the SSRI and SSNRI drugs, the first couple or three weeks can be really weird -- it takes a while for the drug to start working on the depression and/or pain, and there can be some strange side effects at first that generally do subside in time. Also, a lot of folks have a very hard time getting off these drugs -- they can have bad withdrawal symptoms for lots of folks (I've been lucky in that I never had a problem with stopping them) -- it is a good idea to wean off them slowly.
-------------------- "Looks like freedom but it feels like death.. It's something in between, I guess"
Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time" Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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northstar
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7911
posted
IMO, there are many sources of depression, internal (biochemical) and external (life situations), plus their interaction. Also, depression ranges from mild to severe and short to long term. All these factors would seem to direct the course of action.
I found this interesting website/blog/ about magnesium and depression (plus tons of other stuff). I cannot attest to anything in it, nor the person. It is his experience, based on whomever he is.
Personally, I started using mineral supplements and seem to feel a little stronger. I think I would add magnesium only with an additional broad spectrum mineral base, which is the approach when one adds specific B vit's, i.e. with a broad based B supplement. No scientific basis for this.....never looked.
posted
I've been on Cymbalta since March, and dealing with Lyme (neuro, that presented w/meningitis and encephalitis) for 18 months.
I learned on Monday that with all the other drugs we Lymies take, there is a chance something like Cymbalta (which is never really changed like our other RXs) can actually become inactive in it's fight against depression.
I learned the hard way, after trying to kill myself, that we have our ups and downs. We thought I was just cranky from herxing, and never imagined things would escalate to what they did. I strongly urge everyone to learn from my mistake and not turn a blind eye on mood swings. Of you're on an antidepressant, you really shouldn't be having mood swings at all.
-------------------- Sometimes when I say �Oh, I�m fine� I want someone to look me in the eyes & say �tell the truth�
quote:Originally posted by BugBit: I think it is Dr Cheney who did some research on antidepressants and how they effect the brain - something about pin-holes and damage...
And we know that the Lyme spirochete does damage to the brain and spinal cord and Central Nervous System, among others.
Plus Mercury deposits from decades of Mercury-filled teth (altho I have chelated the body burden).
Plus medications such as steroids given to people with Lyme has been shown to dramatically hasten the debilitating effects of the Lyme somehow...
So I think about these things as I pose the following qwuestion:
Over time, I have learned that my depression is often related to my Lyme cycles. Right now, Lyme is active and I am depressed.
When I take the antibiotics, I feel better and the depresion lifts. On the other hand, I am in a situation that is depressing and to be depressed is a "normal" response.
When I take antibiotics, (and even when I don't) I suffer incredible physical pain and when I herx from the antibiotics, it pain is amplified 10-50 times. I take pain medications. Pain adds to any depression I may already be experiencing or may create a depression if I am feeling ok when the herx starts up.
My Dr handed me Cymbalta for the depression and now I am trying to decide if I want to medicate the depression which is really a normal response to a miserable living situation, and chronic pain.
What do you all think of antidepressants when the patient has neuro-Lyme, late stage neuroborreliosis?
Any suggestions? On another Topic here, someone mentioned a muscle relaxant that had neuro effects - what was it and what are "neuro-effects" when referring to a medication? Ideas? Thanks, *BugBit*
Posts: 13 | From SW Florida | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
No, there is no doubt in my mind that antidepressants CAN help me - and other people, the question is, is it a good idea what with the Lyme and all - and the Cheney research about the physical damage SSRI etc can cause is scary to me.
I guess I am wondering if anyone has heard anything about how these medications really effect the physiology of the brain - other than the Cheney material.
I have taken antidepressants before - loved em, hated em, been off now for about ten years after about ten years of yo-yoing on and off. have tried them all. In the end, I stopped taking them because I was making life-altering decisions based on what I thought was a false sense of reality.
These drugs alter your reality - usually for the better, but they still do. That's the bit that bothers me as well as the fact that we don't really know what they are doing to the brain itself. Argh.
I will probably try the Cymbalta for three or four months and then stop. I don't think taking any antidepressant for a long time is a very good idea at all and I won't go there again - but a few months, ya, I need to get out of this depression and start making the changes the depresion robs me of the energy to effect.
This Lyme/infection stuff really sucks and is so confusing, and no one "gets it" other than us. Really sad. Cheers and thanks again, *BugBit*
Posts: 116 | From Bisbee, AZ USA | Registered: Sep 2005
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Carol B
Unregistered
posted
My moods feel pretty extreme. I have tried a couple of anti depressents-Lexapro put me over the ledge in one dose-whew-wound up in the hosptial with physical and mental issues. Wellbuterin made me anxious, insomnia, aggitated and angry. Nortryptiline did nothing for me after a month.
My doc just prescribed Zoloft- I thought there may be some hope for feeling better emotionally, but insurance denied covereage !
Of course my first self centered thought was to just go ahead and kill myself-get this dam struggle over with.
But my second thought was to accept these down times and stop fighting them, fly by the seat of my pants and hold onto the hand of God
posted
I was just diagnosed last week, but when I first got sick over 5 years ago, I saw several mental health specialists.
After trying at least one medication in every family with no help, I asked the dr to take a new route. All the meds that I was given gave me bad side affects or made me feel worse.
Finally I was given Adderall which actually did help me for years. The fact that it is a stimulant helped with me fatigue and somehow the way it works with the dopamine and nurophenephins (sp) helped alleviate my pain.
I wouldn't recommend that treatment for most who definitely have lyme, but it helped me for years. I don't take it anymore and my symptoms are worse then ever. But I am afraid taking it will cause more problems in the long run.
Anyway, when it comes to meds... only you know your body. I do agree with you that it seems normal to be depressed when you are fighting a battle like lyme or any other disease.
I have always tried the mind over matter approach and I can usually trick myself enough with that one, but I will admit as the years go on and the battle is still fierce, it is getting harder and harder to be optimistic.
Posts: 4 | From central coast CA | Registered: Jul 2006
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