hardynaka
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Member # 8099
posted
I'm always told that only weak people catch lyme, and that I don't have to be afraid my daughter will also catch it after a tick bite (or after many tick bites).
Do you agree with that?
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Yes, I agree, though I would not call it a "weak person".
If the body is weakened through heavy metal and environmental toxins, dental infections of long standing, if a tick bite happens, it may have an effect on the immunse response. I would also include unresolved psychological conflicts which also in the long run can affect the body's immune response, since there is a biochemical effect/sequel with emotional issues.
The toxicity issue reigns over everything - it may induce enzymes or shut them off.
The tick bite/ Lyme infection is often the straw that broke the camel's back.
It is evident that many are exposed to Lyme, yet their life is not disrupted like it was for many of us.
This is Dr. K's opinion. He looks for the seven factors in any chronic disease (toxins, nutritional deficiencies, structural problems, energetic disturbances/scars, food intolerances, geopathic stress, unresolved psycho-emotional conflicts).
This mirrors exactly my own experience and healing from Lyme Disease.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
i really don't agree that only "weak" people catch lyme. I have been a very healthy person all my life. I was never one to succumb to "flus" and "viruses" i had two c-sections and was up walking around the next day without a problem.
i think alot depends on how early you catch the disease. i notice many people posting here have always been healthy, athletic and then wham,,,,,
so i also don't tend to agree with the "weak" factor as being 39 i've never been bedridden with any kind of virus in my life.
karen
Posts: 68 | From uxbridge, mass | Registered: Jul 2006
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MagicAcorn
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Member # 8786
posted
Actually, you could counter and say only strong people like athletes get lyme. I got lyme after a week of spelunking and hiking. Weak people do not participate in these activitites.
Who are these people that speak in such general terms? That is dangerously niave thinking.
-------------------- Posts: 1279 | From In hiding | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I don't agree that only weak people get Lyme either. Many people who are strong and healthy who get Lyme don't know they have it because their bodies do a good job of keeping it at bay. Then after years of wearing the immune system down it comes out with a vengence.
Also to the poster who said they never got the flu or viruses. I don't believe this is an indicator of a healthy immune system in fact it could be the opposite. I too never get sick. I believe it has to do with your body not making antibodies against the pathogens. Lyme does effect the cd 8 cells which make the antibodies.
Posts: 649 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2003
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northstar
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posted
Just a spurious thought/question here.........
Would that imply that lab animals that are innoculated in studies who then exhibit symptoms supported with positive blood work, are also weak ? Are there portions of these lab populations, i.e. innoculated but asymptomatic, and if so, what is different about them.
Maybe we need to define "weak" in this thread....does it equal unhealthy? What is unhealthy.....etc.
N.
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Bull
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
You are all just wimpy girly men. Give the Lyme to me and I will crush it will my bulging biceps.
Posts: 559 | From Cary, NC | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I don't agree at all that only the 'weak' are susceptable to Lyme. I have always been healthy to the extent that since adulthood I caught very few colds, had no major diseases, and hardly ever missed a day of work for the last 35 years. When everybody was getting the flue, I generally didn't, and if I got a rare cold, I got over it pretty fast. I never had to take any long term medication for anything: my only medicine was a daily handful of vitamins and supplements taken for the past 40 years.
Yet, I am pretty certain I have chronic Lyme (I still have no idea where or when I got it). After my first bout (fairly mild) in 2002, I was relatively free of symptoms until 9 months ago. This time the symptoms were different and much worse.
I wouldn't classify myself as a 'weak' person as my immune system has had no problem with other illnesses. We are not weak, the Lyme bug is just stronger.
With that said, I agree that people are probably more susceptable to infections getting out of control if they are run down by such things as overwork, lack of sufficient rest and stress. I believe that the latter three weakened my immune system to the extent that the dormant Lyme made a comeback and overwhelmed my immune system.
-------------------- Mark J. Wallin, Ph.D. Posts: 32 | From Holland, PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by GiGi: It is evident that many are exposed to Lyme, yet their life is not disrupted like it was for many of us.
Take care.
Close GiGI, switch "Lyme borrelia" with "epidemic borrelia". If anyone is bit and infected with "Lyme borrelia" they are in trouble regardless of health status.
groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Nope-- I was in Super shape- won presidents health award-- raced expert motocross -could ride my bicycle 100 miles fast -- arm wrestled worlds champion on TV-- and was almost never sick--
Lyme babs brought me to my knees in 6 weeks--Jay--
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Hi everybody, thanks for the fast answers.
My daughter was bitten AGAIN in our hollidays, I'm giving her abx anyway as I can't imagine to take care of her in case she falls ill like me, I mean, being sick myself.
This time in the head, more than 14 hours attached, I thought we were going to be tick free in the garden in Belgium, was so relaxed. That spoiled my hollidays. Then I read the statistics of 98, more than 11% of ticks are contaminated there. Now gotta be much worse.
I also considered myself healthy before lyme, I mean, compared to the majority of people around me. I still wonder if rise of co-infections don't play a role on putting our immune system down.
I'm almost convinced that borrelia alone can't do much harm, but when co-infections come play a role, somehow our immune system has much more trouble in dealing with it (just my own guess).
I was also walking the next day after my cesarean 2 years ago. But fell sick after a few months after tick bite. I ate healthy and had a reasonable healthy life style before lyme.
If toxins play a role on our immune system, I think the whole of Japan (where I lived for a few years) could be considered 'weak'(heavy polution, fish eaters, heavy smokers etc).
The whole population of highly urbanized centers (most of the population in this planet live on these poluted centers) could be considered 'weak' too.
I do question this statement about 'weak' people then. Every new doctor I see tells this to me ("you're the exception, not the rule").
I wonder if the growing number of sick patients they see (ALL of them admit the numbers are steadily growing) mean that the numbers of weak people are also increasing!!
Gigi, if toxins play a role on weakening our immune system and we are ALL in contact with toxins, I would rather say that 'most people in this planet are prone to catch lyme', not the opposite. Or am I missing something?
I agree that maybe we all have a problem in a certain part of our immune system. But who doesn't?
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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dontlikeliver
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Member # 4749
posted
I think that's a 'load of rubbish'.
I think people who are athletic or of a strong constitution get it as much as anybody else...
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Sorry i have to agree with the others. That can't be true. My husband has only been sick a few times in the 14 years that I've know him while I have always had colds, sinus infections etc.
What I have noticed is that his test showed the highest amounts of positives while mine was the lowest and I am the sickest or weakest.
He has also responded quicker and overall much better then myself. I'm still sick when he is feeling better then he has in ten years.
So even though he is "strong" he still has lyme but seems to have an immune system that works well for him. Being "strong" didn't stop him from getting lyme and coinfections at all. Perhaps being strong has helped him get better though.
Posts: 547 | From Maryland | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
The opposite is true like so many others have said.
My cheeks were always rosy red like those wonderful Scottish/British people, I got right up after major surgeries, no joint problems, no heart problems in our family, nothing! Our family lived well into their 80's and 90's.
Now I'm as pale as they come and so forth. So much for generalizations
posted
don't know who "always" told you that, but it is an ignorant statement. There is zero evidence to support that notion.
Posts: 213 | From ohio | Registered: Jul 2006
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HEATHERKISS
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6789
posted
Hello Hardy,
I've met alot of people who were previously the picture of health and fitness. Lyme and TBDs can hurt anyone healthy or unhealthy.
-------------------- HEATHER
Posts: 1974 | From ABERDEEN, NJ 07747 | Registered: Jan 2005
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robi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5547
posted
I do not think "weak" means unhealthy or not being athletic. Actually, the immune system becomes temporarily weakend by exercise.
There has been speculation that super athletes are more susceptible to cancer because of the hard training they do. i.e. Lance Armstong, Greta Waitz
So don't take offense to the term "weak" ..... as Gigi said it is referring to the body being in a weakend condition ......... this has litle to do with how well you eat or how much you exercise.
Hope this helps, Just my opinion, robi
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
two frequent comments I remember from Dr. K.:
He has had to treat many athletes and marathon runners who suddenly became severe MS cases, or neurological cases, etc. His explanation: strenuous exercize with strong circulation moves toxins into the brain very readily; much quicker than a person sitting at a desk doing bookwork, etc.
Re comments from literally every severely ill patient when they first saw him: "Never had a cold or flu, never had to take time off work", etc. His response: "that's exactly what causes you to be so sick now. The immune response never came, you just kept accumulating toxins and now it overflows."
It is much healthier to fight an annual flu, run a fever and get the bugs out of the body.
I also never was sick, just depressed sometimes. If I wanted to have a day off work, I had to fake it! I was going at 50 miles an hour from morning til night. And when the insect bit, all hell broke loose!It took me a few months to understand that I really was sick -- I didn't know what being sick meant until that moment.
Selma, if you are mercury toxic, the mercury toxicity is passed on to the child via placenta and breastfeeding. S. can easily test her. You, as still a sick person, should not muscle test your own child. Even when you are well, it is not a good idea. Thye mental field plays into this. Believe me, it does not work.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I was probably born with lyme...
Worked in Machine shop...toxins and heavy metals... Worked on Navy Ship...more toxins
Worked in Steel mill even more toxins...
Never sick and asymptomatic of lyme disease...did'nt even know it existed...
Became a service rep for labcorp and moved from inner city (urban toxic dwellings) to the subburbs(cleaner air and environment) and got sick........LOL
Go figure!.......zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
It is a well known fact that super athletes suffer more body damage. There are athletic women whose bodies stop having periods due to their level of fitness. Think that is healthy?
I come from a family of long lifers. It is nothing to reach 100 yrs of age. Yet as I look at them, I see a pattern. The ones who are living the longest and the healthiest, were not the high energy go-go-go ones. It is the quiet ones who are really the energizer bunnies.
My dad was a doer. He had high energy and get up and go. He was very successful in his work and a real fun loving guy in his offtime. He died at 57 of his 4th heart attack. Unfortunately, I have his energy and look who is sick.
There aren't enough paragraphs to tell you about all my family members currently in their 80's and 90's with no medical conditions. They were not the movers and shakers of their generation. They were just steady as you go kind of people. They kept their lives simple.
I think our definition of "weak" is backwards. It is not the energy expenders but the energy savers who seem to be the healthiest. High level activity is stressful to the body and opens the door to sickness. Perhaps that is why so many of us here were athletes prior to our illness.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
of course, that sentence of Dr. K. included a few more choice words --- such as teeth, mercury, multiple metals, tick, straw that broke the camel's back..., jug overflowed.....
The essence of what Dr. K. told me when I saw him the first time was:
if you had been able to detox via normal channels over the years, via a cold, a flu, you would not be here in a wheel chair now!! Most chronically ill have this in their past -
Cave, I can always depend on you to negate what I post.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
I don't know about the word weak? Does this refer to your genetic pre-disposition? Or your physcial state or even environmental. May be a combination of all three.
I find it interesting that a friend of mine, in CT, got a CDC positive WB. He Had headaches & flu lke sypmtoms.
Took a months worth of doxy at a lower than suggested dose by Dr. B and now he has been fine for years. Will he be still be fine in the years to come?
Where as many others surcumb to a major chronic state with the same under treatment. Why is this?
Really wish I knew why.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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robi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5547
posted
I have thought as I read through many Lymenet posts, that those who became really sick close to the bite went on to recover quicker and more completely from lyme. To me that means their immune system was putiing up a good fight initially because they had a strong immune system.
Others, including myself, who did not know they were sick with lyme for months or years because they did not have an initially strong reaction ( getting sick) seem to be harder to treat and don't recover as well.
I know this is a huge generalization, but it is something I have noticed over time.
I think this is why kids do better too. Many have a stronger, less-busy (not alive as long to collect as many pathogens) imune system.
Just my thoughts, robi
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Thank you all for your interesting comments.
Your posts still make me think.
Luvs about the 'slow' pace people (similar to what a former taichi teacher told me once... if you breathe slow, you'll live longer), and the many posts with 'never caught a cold/ no day off work' example.
I did fit into this too. But I also know many 'cold-catchers', and I can't think of them as being healthy either. But maybe they don't usually catch lyme!??
And Robi, I fit into the 'fell fast ill' case. I don't know if this makes my immune system better than others that keep infection low for years...
I am improving, it's true, without antibiotics, but my life has been a hell as for many of you... I do thank the KMT and Buhner's herbs, but without them, I don't know where I was going to be though.
It's been a little more than year after my tick bite, but I do give credits to treatment I'm getting, not to my immune system exactly (even though I'm off abx).
But it makes me think why it is 'common sense' that kids get better faster than adults once they get treatment, if everyone knows that their immune system is still 'under construction'. Emotional stuff / toxins may have to do with that!
Gigi, I'm taking my daughter tomorrow to Dr. B. to get her properly tested. We were on holidays, so that was emergency. Thanks for the tip about that anyway!
Thanks all, Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Only Infected People Get Lyme Period
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
When I caught Lyme, I was jogging 4-5 miles a day, lifted weights three times a week, did yoga almost every day, and took mega vitamins. Men used to stop me on the street and ask how I got such great muscle definition.
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Health
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6034
posted
Treepatrol,
What do you mean only infected people get lyme? Infected with what?
thanks,
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
When I caught Lyme Disease I was running 3.5 miles/day and lifting weights three times/week.
I also took many supplements, rarely ate junk food, etc., etc..
I think I was at my healthiest/strongest when I got Lyme.
Posts: 366 | From MA | Registered: Apr 2006
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by Health: Treepatrol,
What do you mean only infected people get lyme? Infected with what?
thanks,
Trish
It must be me today preoccupied or something nobody understands me.
Only people who are infected with lyme get lyme not weak people not skinny people not fat people not tall people etc. Nothing more.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Lyme weakens the body. It can stress every bodily funtion and process, and therefore make the body weak.
If your body is already weak for any reason, such as toxic exposure or a previous infection, then maybe the Lyme will hit you harder or faster. But I know many people who were in incredible shape who were ripped down by Lyme.
I got bitten when I was 12. Although I had on and off pain symptoms following, it took 15 years for me to hit a wall. During those 15 years, the Lyme literally broke my body down. I was functioning, but barely. I may have seemed healthy, but my body wasn't taking care of itself.
My LLMD doesn't look at Lyme as the straw that breaks the camels back. She looks at Lyme as the main pressure. It's the other exposures that then break the back. In my case, I think it was food poisoning during my only bad meal on a vacation in Italy. If I hadn't had the Lyme, I'd be fine. But with the Lyme, reactive arthritis hit and didn't leave.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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