Topic: Mepron/Zith/Arte buddies: Relapsing or Herxing?
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064
posted
I am 8 days into this regimen. The past two nights were the worst: heart pumping, nausia, uncomfortable stomach, hot skin and sweating(a little), woke up often and headach.
These are the symptoms I initially had.
So my questions for you experienced buddies are: is this a relapse or herx? Shoud I discontinue this regimen and start to treat Bbs?
I also wondering if I have babesia because the treatment of Babs didn't improve my condition.
Looking forward to your opinion to make a decision.
Is this the first time you have addressed the babs?
How long have you been treating the lyme with abx??
My experience, in treating babs for about 4 months with mepron and zith is that.... 8 days in,
was still a cake walk.
Dr. B. recommends at least 4 months to address babs. (I believe he is referring to chronic cases, but not entirely sure my memory serves correctly here on the detail...just know 4 months)
And this 4 months of my treatment was extremely grueling and nearly impossible.
Continued to get worse herxes to the point I could not get up and move for more than a few minutes without the volume in my heart pumping so hard I thought I would surely die right there.
Looking back, and I do not know if I am thoroughly done with babs treatment...I can say that it is also really important to
monitor yourself to makes sure you are not reacting to the drugs themselves.
I think I was herxing and also reacting to the drugs themselves (side effects). I also think herxing too much can indeed be dangerous. So just be careful watching.
Since May I have been on artemesinin. 11 days ago I added an other herb (VRM1) and rife frequencies. Six days into the regimen I devleoped: severe heachaces that woke me up, tachycardia up to 134, feeling chills and then febrile, and stomach cramps.
I did not have these symptoms before so I assume it was a herx.
The heart rates worries me, but I do wonder if I should stick it out or slow down treatment. Good luck
Posts: 628 | From the south | Registered: Dec 2005
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tabbytamer
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Member # 3159
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Dave,
Just wondering, did you start all three meds at the same time?
minoucat
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Member # 5175
posted
It took 4 months for me and the hubby to see any improvement at all on the babs tx, and 5 months before I started feeling consistently better.
We both felt terrible within the first week of starting artemesinin, and even worse after starting mepron/zith. Huge increase in headache pain and brainfog, increase in irritability, majorly painful muscles (especially in the legs), increase in sweats.
-------------------- ********************* RECIDITE, PLEBES! Gero rem imperialem! (Stand aside plebians! I am on imperial business.)
posted
Can anyone tell me the benefit of adding art? My dh's LLMD is talking about putting him on Zith/mepron but no mention of artemisin.
What are the doses of each that you are taking?
Posts: 160 | From Abington, PA, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064
posted
Hi, Painted turtle, Serendipity and Minoucat
Thanks for sharing your experiences with me. Now I have more confidence in this regimen: I'll finish the 21 days of this protocol and do blood work to monitor the side effects.
quote: Just wondering, did you start all three meds at the same time?
Tabbytamer, Thanks for the question: Yes or No, I took Arte. several rounds before (one week of each); but it is first time, I started Mepron and Zith at the same time. Should I do differently? Thanks for your input.
quote: Is this the first time you have addressed the babs?
Yes, this is the first time I formally addressed the babs. However, before, I took Arte. on and off for some time.
quote: How long have you been treating the lyme with abx??
I have been treating the lyme for over half of a years. I took Doxy, Amoxicillin, Ketek, Biaxin and Rifampin and 6 weeks of Rocephin.
I am afraid that the Mepron/Zith/Arte would weaken my immune system and allow Bbs roam back.
NP40
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6711
posted
Danser, babs treatment is normally given in the following doses: zith 500-1,000mg p-day mepron 2 tsps p-day art 3 [100mg] p-day Three weeks on and one week off.
Some folks use the art differently at much higher doses, for short periods of time. It appears that art loses some absorbability after a week or so, but not all.
Dave, sounds like a herx to me. Babs herx's may be the worst of all, however, if you get a handle on it, it may be the most rewarding treatment in squelching symptoms.
You can herx for a long while on babs tx. In some cases folks get some pretty awful side effects from mepron. Malarone or plaquenil may be good alternatives. The fact that you reacted this way leads me to believe you have babs.
Posts: 1632 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2005
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NP40
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6711
posted
Dave, I wouldn't worry about the Bb roaring back. It's slow replicating and the zith should keep it in check. You have to get rid of the babs to get over the lyme anyhow.
Posts: 1632 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2005
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Dave6002
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Member # 9064
posted
quote: Can anyone tell me the benefit of adding art?
Every doctor would agree that combinational therapy (two or more medicines) of malaria would prevent malaria from developing drug resistance, that's why monotherapy of Malaria is forbiden in medical field.
Second, combinational therapy is more efficient in Aids, cancers and other infectious diseases.
Third, my speculation, since Arte. is effective on multiple pathogens probably including Bbs, Bart. Babs and Ehrlichia, while addressing babs, at same time you would not neglect others, which could surface and become a problem.
Fourth, Arte. has been proved to be effective on Babs.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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i just got done with a four week run of mepron,zith ,art it was horrible,i just couldnt last any longer never felt so bad, even on rochephin, i think in my case it was a herx, and mabye a touch of drug side effects,
major heart pounding, tachacardia,skips, chest pain, headaches from he$$, felt like i might be having a stroke, because the left side of my face would go numb, and vertigo, muscle pain and brain fog way worse than ever before, , i had to quit for a while, took me ten days to get back to where i was , saw some inprovent after stoping but i think i have to go back on it because it didnt get rid of it yet.
Thats my experience.
Posts: 12 | From Fremont, Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2005
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Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064
posted
NP, thanks. After reading your replies, I am more convinced that I have Babs and I should stay on the regimen for a while.
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064
posted
Bravo Mom in WI.
Thanks for sharing your experience. If you can handle it, I sure can do it.
This disease is just testing our patience.
Persisting is winning!!!
Cheers for Mepron.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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NP40
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6711
posted
quote:Originally posted by Mom in WI: Hey Dave,
i just got done with a four week run of mepron,zith ,art it was horrible,i just couldnt last any longer never felt so bad, even on rochephin, i think in my case it was a herx, and mabye a touch of drug side effects,
major heart pounding, tachacardia,skips, chest pain, headaches from he$$, felt like i might be having a stroke, because the left side of my face would go numb, and vertigo, muscle pain and brain fog way worse than ever before, , i had to quit for a while, took me ten days to get back to where i was , saw some inprovent after stoping but i think i have to go back on it because it didnt get rid of it yet.
Thats my experience.
Hmm, seems to me I know this poster. -Mike
Posts: 1632 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2005
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
Hi Dave, My regimen is a little different(Artemisinin, Malarone and Ketek) and at a fairly low dose for about 2 months so far. It's kinda kicking my butt.
Constantly rotating symptoms... chills, fevers, sweats, headaches, nausea, lower back pain, feeling like I was beat up (inside and out) with a baseball bat(especially the first month), rib pain, not exactly vertigo, palpitations acompanied by forgetting how to breathe, all over humming, intermittant partial facial and other numbness, brain stuff, the list goes on...
Some of these things I never had before... eg. the beat up feeling.
Thank goodness all these symptoms are not happening at once. I'm at low doses and can't imagine what more would be like. Ok, I can imagine just can't even think of going there.
This is also my first Babs treatment and I've likely had it 20+ years.
It's not fun... but for me, at this level... not intolerable. I'm pretty proud of myself for being able to do this and also, finally, have some hope of getting a piece of my life back.
I've also been told it takes around 4 months to see real improvement for some. I can hold out that long.
Stick with it if you can... I'll meet you on the other side. *crosses fingers, knocks wood*
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