TheCrimeOfLyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4019
posted
I've noticed something ( and yes I KNOW it's bad for me to do) but I have noticed that when I drink , which is not often and in fact, I hadn't touched a drop in 3 years straight ...
but when I drink and its WHISKey ( not beer) that I feel EXCELLENT the next day ( and I mean excellent, no sign of lyme at all).
This has been consistent and obviously, I no longer wish to experiment with alcohol or use it in any way to feel good.
The only thing I can think of is alcohol thins the blood and this MAY be why I feel so freaking good after I drink. I don't even have hangovers.
So, can someone give me some help here - non alcoholic of course as I wish not to take up becoming an alcoholic any day soon.
Who do I see for suspected hypercoagulation? What kind of blood test will I need? What alternative stuff or med drugs can I take? Isn't
nattokinase for thick blood or something?
My mother has a genetic problem- Im sorry, I can't think of what, but she has chronic phlebitis. One blood clot after another after another. She has been on warfarin, & heparin but her mainstay is
coumadin that she has lived on since I can remember. My sisters are also showing signs of hypercoagulation , and my mom
has told them AND me for years "you know girls, those headaches you all get goes away for ME when I take my coumadin"... so my mothers headaches are even related to her hypercoagulation problem. and still yet, I know it has a name,
and its common in people of german ancestry, but I still cannot think of the name.
And one last thing, if you were tested in PEnnsylvania or see a doctor or KNOW one in pennsylvania who diagnosis/treats this,
can you let me know?
Thanks for any help.
-------------------- You want your life back? Take it. Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
i'd see a pcp for hypercoagulation, as it could be hereditary. they would do clotting tests, PTT/PT and INR to see how quickly your blood clots.
although me being the girl who had wine before her ENG, alcohol would be my suggestion. LOL,
Aspirin thins the blood, a small dose like 81 mg a day (baby aspirin) is what alot of people take to prevent strokes/heart attacks, etc. i don't know if this is contradicted with your condition or not, or how old you are but it's otc for blood thinning.
karen, not a doctor, a nurse with way too much useless knowledge
Posts: 68 | From uxbridge, mass | Registered: Jul 2006
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TheCrimeOfLyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4019
posted
Thanks FPN.
I just don't know who to see about it. I mean I know ANY doc can order the tests, but I feel even my GP would raise more than one eyebrow if I said " i think I have hypercoagulation because when I drink I feel absolteuly normal the next day, all day, sometimes for a few days".
It would probably be a better bet for me to mention my mom has this problem. I justdon't know how to approach it. I know some LLMD's just flat out test for it off the bat.
-------------------- You want your life back? Take it. Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
your post just gave me a good laugh, thanks.....that would be amusing to see you tell your pcp you feel great when you drink.....it reminds me of something similar, my dh, who has great teeth, never goes to a dentist...he went a few months ago and the dentist (who i basically have paid for his kids college) says do you have any problems? and my dh told him when he drinks tequila his teeth hurt.....funny
anyway, next time you go to your doc, tell them about mom's history. if you've ever gone to the doc with heart or stroke like symptoms, good chance they drew clotting tests and you would know if you were "hyper". also to keep in mind, with all the numerous lyme symptoms, if you, given your history, ever notice calf pain, redness or swolleness, this could be a sign of hypergoag, and could indicate a dvt or blood clot, so just another thought.
karen
Posts: 68 | From uxbridge, mass | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I don't think that your feeling better the next day is because it is thinning your blood. A few drinks the day before will not have the power to thin your blood enough for you to feel a difference. Even if you started using heparin to thin your blood, you would not feel better the next day. It takes time to clear out fibrogen and other clotting debris that can develope in the veins and arteries.
It is more likely that your feeling good the next day is because alchohol is mood altering. It takes away stress, and can help you to feel better mentally. I think that you should pursue testing for fibrogen not just because of heredity, but also because abx Tx can ccause this problem to develope. It goes hand in hand. I'm sure that you already know how bad any alchohol is for someone that has lyme, and esp for chronic yeast infections that I remember you saying that was one of your major problems.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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Nattokinase and other fibrinolytic enzymes might help
I'd say: if your mother has yhe mutation get tested for it as excess fibrin is also present in the blood of chronically infected/inflamed people so you don't want to cumulate factors that are going to promote clotting
Nelly
Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001
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I agree that getting tested for hypercoagulation is a good idea, based on heredity alone -- not to mention Lyme and abx and the rest of it.
I could tell my blood was hypercoagulated, actually, when I had a blood draw -- it was very dark (almost black) and super-thick and hard to draw. I've been treating with systemic enzymes (a product called "cell food") and now also nattokinase, and my blood is now a lovely red that flows easily.
As for the whiskey -- I truly wonder what it is that is causing you temporary relief? I wonder if it is some enzyme or by-product of the fermentation of the whiskey, rather than the alcohol itself. Most of us feel infinitely worse when we drink alcohol -- (myself included.) I stopped drinking altogether when I was dx'ed, and feel I am all the better for it.
I do remember,though, that when I used to drink, certain alcohols (wine, beer) made me feel much worse than others (vodka in particular). I figured this was due to yeast, sulfites, etc. and that the vodka was the purest of the bunch.
Whiskey and other dark spirits, however (if I remember this correctly) have quite a few sulfites and other stuff in them from the fermentation process. Now you've piqued my curiosity!
-------------------- "Looks like freedom but it feels like death.. It's something in between, I guess"
Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time" Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
There are several blood clotting disorders. Perhaps you should see a hematologist in order to pinpoint it. My daughter was diagnosed with Protein S deficiency, which is supposed to be hereditary. But neither her father or I have it. The hematologist has reluctantly acknowledged that perhaps chronic infection can cause it! You might want to take a look at the Hemex Laboratory website. THey have some intersting information on blood/infection issues. Good luck!
Posts: 422 | From Herndon, Virginia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
After several big discussions here at LymeNet, I decided to try using "systemic enzyme therapy."
The Wobenzym reduced my constant headaches. I no longer wake every day with a splitting headache, and although I am still getting headaches, they are not as severe as before.
You can google "systemic enzyme therapy" + Wobenzym, and find some good information.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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TheCrimeOfLyme
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Member # 4019
posted
Thank you all for your replies.
Im curious too about why this happens. I CANNOT drink beer. It makes me deathly ill. BUt whiskey makes me feel GREAT the next day. I will have to look into sulfites too.
-------------------- You want your life back? Take it. Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by nellypointis: Factor V Leiden mutation?
Aspirin won't help if you have excess fibrin
Nattokinase and other fibrinolytic enzymes might help
I'd say: if your mother has yhe mutation get tested for it as excess fibrin is also present in the blood of chronically infected/inflamed people so you don't want to cumulate factors that are going to promote clotting
I agree. Get tested somewhere. Won't your LLMD run the test for you?
posted
I think what I would do, having the same problem myself: get a referral to a hematologist. They specialize in blood disorders.
Make they test for the Factors V, II, and others Protein S and Protein C sufficiency
Best wishes!
Anneke
Posts: 364 | From California | Registered: Sep 2005
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lymemomtooo
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Crime.. good luck..
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Truthfinder
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posted
Crime, I recently found out that Dr. C. in Missouri - an LLMD who is very big on the hypercoag issues - recommends the MOCHA hypercoagulation panel - I think it runs around $366 or so. You will see the MOCHA panel listed at Hemex....... this is a lot cheaper than the full ISAAC panel that was recommended a few years back to the tune of $1,500.
I think any doc can order this panel, and I think other labs offer it, also - not just Hemex. Hemex used to have some hoops for doctors to jump through before they would do testing, but that may have changed in the last few years.
Hope this helps.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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TheCrimeOfLyme
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Member # 4019
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Thanks again guys. I will look into Hemex. I know I have some print outs from them around somewhere.
jodie
-------------------- You want your life back? Take it. Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
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I have Factor V Leiden mutation so I have "been there, done that" with the hypercoagulation and actual clotting issues.
If you have questions about genetic testing let me know. Your doc will likely check fibrinogen and other general clotting measures before diving into all the genetic tests. APC is a general screen that can indicate need for further genetic testing.
-------------------- **Eat Chocolate** Posts: 942 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Hypercoagulation is often found with babesia infections too.
-------------------- We have only this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand... and melting like a snowflake. Let us use it before it is too late. Posts: 221 | From the hills | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Have you tried Rechts-Regulat? Check out Gigi's comments on it. I can personally say that it works for thinning blood plus many other benefits.
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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TheCrimeOfLyme
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Member # 4019
posted
Thanks again for all your replies. I searched on it some today; theres alot of stuff on that and different genetic factors, etc.
I'll keep researching and hopefully get it all figured out and find a doc that will test me. I think the factor that my mother has it ( by the way, I found out she has factor Luiden? Am I saying that right?) And that my grandmother had it as well.
My mom has had it "under control" for years now with medication. She told me today her last blood clot was about 6 years ago. I remember as a child though her always being in the hospital. She also survived a deep vein thrombosis that broke off n went into her lung.
But she has had many deep vein thrombosis... somethign I dont want to end up with myself.
-------------------- You want your life back? Take it. Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
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Jellybelly
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posted
Keep in mind that there are a couple of forms of hypercoagulation. There is the kind that you know for sure your mom has, and just about any doc would know how to test for that. I am talking aboout "genetic" clotting disorders.
Then there is the kind of hypercoagulation that is the topic of many conversations that we have here. This form is NOT genetic but you could have a genetic clotting disorder or even be a genetic bleeder while having this "other"form.
It is caused by chronic illnesses where the immune system becomes very active. Like when it is trying to fight cancer or in our case it is trying to fight chronic infection. It is also know as ISAC/Immune System Activation of Coagulation.
It is VERY important to find a doc who is familiar with this form of hypercoagulation so it can be tested for specifically. The vast majority of docs even hematoligists aren't going to know about it OR if they do, even believe it, because they don't generally believe in Lyme in the first place.
So you need to see one of our kind of doctors. There are specialty tests, as traditional testing won't really show to much, cause we aren't talking about blood clots but rather excessive fibrin buildup.
As stated above asprin won't do anything because it doesn't work to remove the fibrin. Asprin prevents platelets from sticking together, a whole nother part of the clotting cascade.
If you do a search on hypercoagulation here, you will find lots of stuff. When doing that search look for a thread entitled something like "so you aren't getting well? Lots of very scientific explanations there that might be useful in educating your doc.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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THis is but the tip of the iceburg. I've been doing some facinating research of late, and I hope to share it all with you here at Lymenet after I test this theory empiracally.
Suffice to say that the fibrin is there, but its a byproduct of something else entirly.
Thanks for posting about the alcohol and then no lyme thing. It fits PERFECTLY with my hypothesis. So, assuming you don't have a genetic disorder, I can explain what happened to you in great detail, but I won't until I test my hypothesis later on this week.
Until then... Cheers! (pun intended)
Posts: 559 | From Cary, NC | Registered: May 2006
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