posted
Hi everyone! Here's my horrible situation. Thanks for any and all help
I've been on mepron (for Babesia) and Ketek for Lyme for the past 3 months or so.
My doc added Tinidazole (200mg tid I think)Friday, Sat, Sun...I guess for those cysts I'm sure I have after 20 years.
I started Tini on Friday and survived. I actually felt more stable walking. Some shortness of breath but ok.
I just figured it was more of the same mild shortness of breath like I've been getting since mepron.
After taking all the abx on Sat I couldn't breathe! I was real pale and the paramedics insisted I go to emergency so I did. But, of course, they couldn't figure me out. All bloodwork was ok.
So, I stopped taking everything sinec Sat afternoon. I'm a bit better now, but I avoid exertion- even a few steps.
My doc suggested I recover and re-start. He thinks it's a herx. I'm scared and confused.
Has anyone had this shortness of breath with tini? With mepron?
-------------------- Be well, SAK Posts: 371 | From Up North | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I got asthma sx when on Mepron / Zithromax. All asthma sx gone now. Try drinking the juice of a fresh lemon, squeeze into a glass, no sugar, no water, drink it with a straw to protect tooth enamel. Usually works for herx sx. Kay www.lymesite.comPosts: 195 | From MA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I got really congested and short of breath on Flagyl.
Kathy
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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liz28
Unregistered
posted
Ketek causes this for many people, because the normal 800mg/day dosage is designed for Babe the Blue Ox, not regular-sized folk. Try starting out with 400mg per day, and if you are okay, build up to 400mg twice a day.
Lyme cyst busters do have a reputation for destroying people. But you can also ramp up slowly on those. Do an archive search on flagyl, and you'll see this is common.
The combination of all three drugs together is murderous to the liver and kidneys, so if you don't have at a few supplements in there, you may be overtaxing your system. One milk thistle a day is not enough--grab at least three different kinds of supplements and throw them on the fire. Yeah, it's expensive, but it could save you grief in the long run.
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Did anybody mention a possible allergic reaction? An allergic reaction to an abx can cause your throat to close up very quickly and can result in death.
I would ask your doctor for an EPI-Pen. If it is an allergic reaction, it can save your life and give you time to get help if it gets severe.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by SAK: Thank you, thank you!
Drs and tests rule out allergic reaction.
My breathing is better now that I've been off every abx since Sunday. I know I should start again soon.
Funny how I don't feel worse being off abx...don't understand how that works
I'm still afraid to start abx again. I like the suggestion of ramping up the dose of Tini slowly. Sounds like that would help a lot.
As for liver, doc and I are concerned. I want to take milk thistle soon. I think it's 2x/day. When on abx I take other vitamins too.
Many thanks again!
What you experienced is actually a good sign, and its a herx. The three together, assuming your liver enzymes are ok, is a better combo than using the two alone.
The reason you are having breathing difficulties is because this herx is a form of adult respitory distress syndrome commonly seen in patients treated for malaria and at times babesiosis. The addition of Tindamax seems to have added an additional pressure upon the parasitic organism causing it to lyse, releasing some of the effects you felt in the breathing diffiuclties.
Now, and I must insist that this is a theory of mine, though the breathing thing is fact, rather than theory. But, my hypotheisis concerns the physical nature of this reaction. Durring infection with Lyme, Babesia, ect, the lungs are compromised in such a way that it results in pulmonary hypertension, albiet at a reduced level than that seen with congestive heart failure. So, by following Issac Newtons 3rd law of Physics, when you are taking antibiotics that kill large numbers of whatever is the primary cultprit for this infection induced pulmonary hypertension, the result is the equal and opposite effect you had previously expereienced.
In other words, you are destroying that which had caused hypertension, resulting in a force driving the body towards hypotension, and the resulting equalizing force is the severe hypertension that ends as the deep breathing. These competeing forces cancel each other out until a final equalibruim is reached whereby you start breathing normally again.
But, the point to all of this is that the deep breathing is a sign of improvement, and the fact that you are not feeling worse now after a few days is evidence of the equaliztion of forces being played out first in your lungs, and then throughout your circulatory system.
For example: how much energy do you have today as compared with 3-4 days ago?
If your answer is much more, then you have to realize that this is an ongoing physics problem until the intial force is removed, ie: babesia, ect..
When you have removed the irratant to this equation, your circulatory system will stabalize, and the deep breathing will be gone, but try to use this idea as a gage to your improvement, and to acertain the validity of the usefullness of any antibiotic regamine targeting Babesia. This reaction should repeat itself in cycles acording to the laws of physics in non quantum or non light speed situations.
The effect should become less pronounced with each successfull killing.
I must repeat that the full chain of events is my idea, and my hypothesis. THe only thing I can say factually has been proven is the adult respirtory distress syndrome.
However, I'm in the process of finishing two scientific papers that I hope to get published in journal: medical hypotheisis concerning this effect and the hemodynamic reaction in the blood and lungs.
Part of that paper includes a way to treat the herxheimer in an effective manner, with readily available medications which are cheap, have low side effect profiles, and can be taken orally.
The second paper I'm working on concerns the treatment of Lyme Borreliosis complex as defined by the previous article entitled Is Lyme Disease Always Polymicrobial?
I have one physican currently working with me on these projects, and I hope to include at least two others after I put the finishing touches on my rough drafts. Both of these physicans are academics that have extensive publications in other areas of medicine, but privatly are very concerned about tick bourne infections.
Hopefully, my hypotheisis will prove true, and will represent a true leap forward in the treatment of Lyme Disease and the co-infections, the herxheimer, and finally give a nearly complete explanation for the physical manifestations of this disease, including the fluctuating symptoms.
Right now, there is no gaurentee that I'm right, but my hope is that I've put enough pieces of the puzzle together that one physican already, and hopefully 2 that may sign on, will be able to find the spots I'm wrong, and fill in the rest of the blanks so that everyone in the Lyme community can bennifit.
Posts: 559 | From Cary, NC | Registered: May 2006
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Someone else came up with an errily similar idea to mine, at seemingly the same time. I've got to get my hands on the full publication.
"Peripheral arterial disease: A manifestation of evolutionary dislocation and feed-forward dysfunction
John D. Simpsona, John D. Douxa, Patrick Y. Leea and Anthony J. Yun, a,
aPalo Alto Institute, 470 University Avenue, Palo Alto, CA 94301, United States
Received 19 March 2006; accepted 21 March 2006. Available online 15 May 2006.
Summary Peripheral arterial disease in the legs represents a subset of atherosclerosis that manifests a particularly sinister profile. A predominance of sympathetic activity in the periphery favors the development of neurogenic atherosclerosis. Atherosclerosis may then produce flow derangements and decreased physical activity that serves to escalate sympathetic bias in a vicious cycle. Restoration of normal flow in peripheral arterial disease may not only produce local benefit due to improved perfusion, but also represent a gateway to correcting many systemic conditions that may at first glance appear unrelated but share a common etiology of autonomic dysfunction, such as gout, acute coronary syndromes, stroke, sleep apnea, arrhythmias, depression, erectile dysfunction, inflammation, hypercoagulability, sleep disorders, bowel dysfunction, renal failure, and aging. "
Posts: 559 | From Cary, NC | Registered: May 2006
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posted
second thought. This is WONDERFUL NEWS. I can site this paper in my article.
Also, being that this article was published in the journal I'm hoping to publish, it seems that this couldn't have worked out better.
Uhh, as cartman from southpark would say... SWEEEEET.
Posts: 559 | From Cary, NC | Registered: May 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
A substance called elastase destroys the alveoli's ability to expand and contract.
Elastase levels can be "measured" via a blood test.
Lyme looks to lower copper levels and sodium - intracellular levels - rise perhaps because Na helps get choline into the cells...Bb's then a "happy camper".
With lyme there appears to be a "problem" with the Na-K pump.
"elastase is an enzyme which breaks down elastin connective tissue"
"Large numbers of neutrophils with *unopposed neutrophil elastase (NE) proteolytic activity* are found in lower respiratory tract secretions from most patients with advanced cystic fibrosis (CF)"
posted
Had shortness of breath and breathing problems before treatment and during treatment for babesia. The Mepron made it a lot worse.
I eventually just took it and hung on for the ride.
I now rarely if ever have breathing problems or air hunger.
Hope you see improvement soon. I know it is scary.
-------------------- �Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right.� - Ezre Taft Benson Posts: 655 | From NC, Exit 88 on the Deer SuperHighway | Registered: Dec 2004
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