posted
I over-heard someone saying this last week and I thought it was interesting...
Perhaps the worse hangover effect is a result of Bacteria die-off from the Alcohol itself? Makes sense to me!
I know beer and other drinks like coctails and martini's are bad because high levels of sugar, but what about straight wisky, or vodka?
Just throwing ideas up in the air...
ps If you cant tell, I really miss driking Posts: 170 | From Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2006
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lymie tony z
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In all the years I've been sick and researching this disease...sorry....
NOWHERE have I seen where alcohol kills any of the bacterial tbd's.
The excessive hangover from alcohol consumption may be due to the carbs in the alcohol(beer) or the mix...which all turn to sugar in the body.
This added to the immunosuppressant affect alcohol has contributes to the hangover affect.
Consuming alcohol while taking ABX's is plain stupid...and in the case of flagyl quite sickening as flagyl or metronidazole have ingredients that react violently to alcohol in the body.
But hey...I like to have a cocktail when I feel like it myself...in between abx treatments...
It never has done me any good...except perhaps mental well being...that I'm still a somewhat normal human being...
But I always paid for it later...so I limit my consumption to special occasions....zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Truthfinder
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Actually, Jon, I've wondered about this myself.
In fact, I've wondered if possibly people who drink regularly (like 2 or more ounces a day), or those who drink heavily on occasion, might actually somehow be protected from Lyme becoming prolific in their bodies.
But frankly, I can't even find evidence that you will kill Lyme cysts by immersing the things in an alcohol solution. I'm sure the ketes would die, but I wonder about the cysts. I'm sure there is some information out there - I just can't find it.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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treepatrol
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quote:Originally posted by Jon: I over-heard someone saying this last week and I thought it was interesting...
Perhaps the worse hangover effect is a result of Bacteria die-off from the Alcohol itself? Makes sense to me!
I know beer and other drinks like coctails and martini's are bad because high levels of sugar, but what about straight wisky, or vodka?
Just throwing ideas up in the air...
ps If you cant tell, I really miss driking
Good try there Jon buddy hahaha
If alcohol killed Bb I would be free I have on occasions drank enough to knock it out.All you end up with is feeling crappy for the next week.
Sure you feel good when doing it but believe me it really makes you pay the piper for a at least a week.
Also when consuming alchol besides what you know about liver. It also messes up your blood producing factory in your bones red blood cells that do get made are malformed. While on abx's I would advise against it okay occasionally maybe I have done it after long stints of none ie watching football games and Ill probaly do it again.
But for treatment to be best absorbed its just not a good Idea. Budd ps I miss it to I like the taste of beer always did. I think the best wine I have ever tasted was from Chateau LaFayette Reneau in NY the wine is called Niagara Mist its really good when you pull cork it smells just like you squezzed grapes in your hands and when you swallow it tastes like grapes mild semi sweet very very good.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Foggy
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I feel like I drank a 12 of PBR. Lyme is a free buzz that seems to last for a loooong time. Posts: 2451 | From Lyme Central | Registered: Aug 2001
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Jellybelly
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Ok, let me throw this in there. My dad was an alcohilic, he suffered from dpression and had fits of rage which can be par for that course and it can be par for Lyme.
After 15 years he finally managed to become clean and sober. Probably a year later he got hurt on a motorcycle bad enough to need a few days in the hospital. Nearly immediately after that he became very ill. Hurting himself on motorcycles(dirt bikes) was not a new experince for him. It had happened numerous times before, but he was likely always riped. Alcohol was a constant for him.
When he got ill, they thought it might have been Lupus, but my mom is CDC positive for Lyme and they thought she had MS. What are the chances of all of us having different autoimmune diseases???We all lived in the same area where I was bitten over and over and my mom had a bulls eye rash in the same place. We now don't think he had Lupus at all, but rather Lyme. He passed away at 67, got sick, AFTER he gave up alcohol and was no where near the area where he would have been infected and hadn't been for 12 years.
Had he always been infectd just like us, but the alcohol keep it at bay.....interesting thought. I've never felt good drinking, not even a dab. Well, that isn't entirely true, cuz now, I can have a drink and not feel like crap the next day, but I am in remission.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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Nal
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Interesting topic. I do occassionaly have a drink but not very often since 1. It interferes with antibiotics 2. Have to be really careful with my stomach and 3. Dont always feel so well afterward.
wouldn't it be cool though if alcohol consumption was the solution for those of us not responding to antibiotics? If that ever becomes the case, sign me up!!! Would sure make life a lot more bearable around here.
Seriously, if you know of any studies to share on this, please do!
Nancy
-------------------- Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!
-Chuck Swindoll Posts: 1594 | From Colorado | Registered: Jan 2005
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lymie tony z
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Oh Brother...
My chetes should have been pickled a long long time ago....
If this were the case....like tree or you Jon...
If you want MORE RELAPSES and feel lousey for like a week afterwards like Tree says(I've experienced the same)...and like Jon and Tree...
I used to drink straight scotch,vodka....or frequent the wineries in NY and NE Ohio and down here in Florida...
Best I've found all things considered is Crown Royal and water.
Beer...Mich Ultra....but if you do boilermakers....don't do them with southern comfort or blackberry brandy....OOOWWWWW!!!!
CHEERS.......zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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groovy2
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I had to think about this for a minute-- almost sounds like it could have some truth in it--
It would be nice-- But Im sure we are not that Lucky-Jay-
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Truthfinder
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I'm a recovering alcoholic and been sober (and clean) for 28 years.
I was a periodic drinker - about once a month I would get really snockered - not just a little drunk. I just couldn't stop at a couple of drinks like most people. And my hangovers were real award-winners, let me tell you.
All I can say is that it was not until I stopped drinking that I began to slowly develop substantial Lyme symptoms within a couple of years.
And in my particular case, I'm pretty sure I have had the Lyme bug in my system since I was a small kid, but only a couple of symptoms were present until after I went on the wagon.
So did my periodic binges play a part here? I have to wonder.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Aniek
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Is alcohol an immune suppressant? If so, it is not killing the keets just suppressing the immune response.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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lymie tony z
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All things considered...
I doubt very strongly that alcohol consumption is a deterant to TBD dissemination.
More likely...ya get drunk...fall down somewhere...get bit...go home and not shower till next day wearing same clothes as night before...
Notice something bleeding from your head and assume you just bonked your beezer sometime in the drunken stupor of the night before and pay no mind to it......
Then ya go on the wagon and a couple weeks or month goes by and ya start feeling crappy...
And of course ya relate that to not drinking! LOL
Well at least I think that's probably how I got re-bit...or that romp in the woods....or that pup I picked up in Arkansas, or home in Cleve...the dog was from PA....
who knows??
OH Well..........JMHO........zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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daystar1952
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I have had a couple of beers a day before dinner for years. I've had lyme for about 14 years. At first when I was very sick I could not tolerate it. But..now I feel it helps in some respects and I continue to improve. It helps with my orthostatic intolerance but of course it wears off after dinner
I was speaking to Judtih Miklossy (swiss researcher who did Alzheimer study) and she felt that alcohol was antibacterial and that there was no harm in having 1 or 2 drinks a day if that's what helps. It may not kill spirochetes but it may kill off other organisms which are depressing our immune system.
Like I said tho , everyone is different and alcohol affects us all differently. I continue to to take 2 different antibiotics along with the alcohol. It doesn't appear to have reduced the effectiveness of the antibiotics. I am being treated consistently ( for 2 years now)with antibiotics and for babesia, and taking whole food supplements and feel like I have my life back
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Marnie
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Bb "moves away from" ethanol.
Bb (all spirochetes) ferment sugar -> ethanol.
Ethanol is not healthy for the brain, pancreas and liver.
Already a problem - too much ethanol.
Vitamin E helps.
Trivia: before Roman "feasts"...when they consumed a lot of wine, they ate...almonds (!) to avoid a hangover. Lots of good "protective" nutrients in almonds.
I had a neighbor who was sensitive to red wine (headache). I suggested he try to eat a handful of almonds before drinking one glass of red wine.
It worked. No headache. He was surprised.
I have old friends who live "the" lyme state (CT)on a wooded lot. They have had ticks attached several times...and always got abx.
They do not have any lyme symptoms. They are also heavy drinkers.
I, too, wondered about alcohol, but after a lot of research, I feel it will cause additional harm to healthy cells and isn't the best route to go.
I have several "alcohol" MS word files. PM me if you want them.
I think you might find them interesting.
"Alcohol alters lipids"...
Interesting comment about blackberry brandy. Blackberries are very high in tannins.
P.S. NEVER drink while on Flagyl...you WILL end up in the ER!!!
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Nal
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Wine is supposed to have antioxidants in it. I do notice that if I have some (a glass or two with a meal), my digestion does a little better while eating. However, it can irritate the gastritis. Except for red wine which I seem to tolerate ok.
I feel lousy the next day or two but then pretty good after for a couple days.
It really does make you wonder though doesn't it?
Nancy
-------------------- Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!
-Chuck Swindoll Posts: 1594 | From Colorado | Registered: Jan 2005
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Y'know, I can only speak from my own experience here --
When I was much, much younger, I was a pretty heavy drinker.... I had lyme then (didn't know it) and was very symptomatic.
I then progressed to social-drinking only (which, in my husband's family, is still rather heavy drinking IMO) -- still symptomatic, took a real head/body crash into illlness the last couple of years.
I stopped drinking altogether when I was dx'd earlier this year (found it surprisingly easy to do) and have felt MUCH better as a non-drinker.
SO, in my case, I can say that alcohol didn't do any kind of job of keeping anything at bay....
-------------------- "Looks like freedom but it feels like death.. It's something in between, I guess"
Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time" Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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I have never experienced the "horrible hangovers" you guys mentioned. BUT I definitely did notice i got drunk easier, and my lyme symptoms immediately worsened a tad (face heating up) fatigue etc when I drank.
Can ANYONE even explain what the alcohol does to lymies and why it creates a worse hang-over effect? Any scientific studies done on this?
The simplest explanation I can think of is that its creating a bacteria die-off, or it's stirring up the bacteria in our system.
If thats true I think I'll start drinking, once or twice a month..
And of course getting sloshed everyday is a BAD idea, supresses the immune system and hard on our livers.
Posts: 170 | From Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2006
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At the ACAM conference in Dallas this spring, Dr. B emphatically stressed absolutely NO alcohol if you have Lyme disease, because alcohol causes the spirochetes to make more toxic proteins, called heat shock proteins, at the same time they inhibit the immune system, especially NK cells.
He said that if you think of the balance between the immune system and the spirochetes, you are activating the spirochetes while you are weakening the immune system. He even reminded everyone present that you are fermenting alcohol when you have a yeast infection and eat a lot of carbs. That's why a low glycemic diet that is high in fiber is important.
I understand that it's natural to want to bargain about your lifestyle and all of the things you have to give up when you are sick, but you shouldn't kid yourself into thinking that you are doing your body good by continuing to drink alcohol while you are battling Lyme and co-infections. The leading authority on Chronic Lyme and co-infections could not have been any clearer about his thoughts on the topic.
I took a lot of notes when he spoke and even though his lecture was fascinating and quite memorable, I referred to my notes for accuracy before responding.
On a side note, he was very well received. The group awarded him special honors and there were a number of people taking notes as I looked around the room. I believe he made a very good impression and I have high hopes that his presence will have an impact on the number of doctors in that group who may be willing to recognize and treat Lyme and co-infections in the future.
[ 30. August 2006, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Lonestartick ]
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2roads
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Hi-
Can't say too much about this, but it reminds me of a conversation I had many years ago with a fellow co-worker who was a Russian Physicist.
It was only between us, and he was adamant that no one at work knew.
He was suffereing from some chronic ailment, may have been MS or Parkinsons, I can't remember. But he said he cured himself. I asked him how, and he said he drank a large amount of straight vodka.
Socially drinking he said you get no hangover with it straight. It's when you mix it with other things that you get sick. However, at the amount he drank, I'm pretty sure he said he was put on the border of life and death.
I don't remember the amount, but I remember thinking how amazing that he survived the cure.
2Roads
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lymie tony z
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Hey thanks Lonestar,
This last post should close the discussion about whether it's bad or good for we lymies.
Drink alcohol at your own risk...peril...
but don't dilude yourself into thinking it's actually "good" for you...
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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MagicAcorn
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Tanqueray and tonic.
I loved Tanqueray and tonic on a hot summer day, It just doesn't love me anymore.
The last time I drank was at a golf tournament and, between the one gin and tonic and the sun I was wiped out for a week.
With my somewhat obsessive nature when lymenized I would be a right sight and quite dangerous if drinking were the cure.
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treepatrol
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posted
The study also showed, for the first time, that drinking alcoholic beverages causes structural changes in fibrinogen that make the clotting protein less active, says lead investigator Shela Gorinstein, Ph.D., a researcher with The Hebrew University of Jerusalem in Israel. Characterizing these structural changes of fibrinogen may one day serve as a new diagnostic indicator of heart attack risk, along with known risk indicators such as blood cholesterol and antioxidant levels, she says. Further studies are needed.
Thats damn interesting isnt it? Fibrinogen gets production cut down.
But then theres all of this:
Effects of alcohol on the body From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search The effects of alcohol on the human body take several forms.
Alcohol, specifically ethanol, is a potent psychoactive drug with a range of side effects. The amount and circumstances of consumption play a large part in determining the extent of intoxication; e.g.
Consuming alcohol after a heavy meal is less likely to produce visible signs of intoxication than consumption on an empty stomach.
Hydration also plays a role, especially in determining the extent of hangovers. The concentration of alcohol in blood is usually given by BAC.
Alcohol has a biphasic effect on the body, which is to say that its effects change over time. Initially, alcohol generally produces feelings of relaxation and cheerfulness, but further consumption can lead to blurred vision and coordination problems.
Cell membranes are highly permeable to alcohol, so once alcohol is in the bloodstream it can diffuse into nearly every tissue of the body.
After excessive drinking, unconsciousness can occur and extreme levels of consumption can lead to alcohol poisoning and death {a concentration in the blood stream of 0.55% will kill half the population}.
Death can also be caused by asphyxiation when vomit, a frequent result of overconsumption, blocks the trachea and the individual is too inebriated to respond. An appropriate first aid response to an unconscious, drunken person is to place them in the recovery position.
Intoxication frequently leads to a lowering of one's inhibitions, and intoxicated people will do things they would not do while sober, often ignoring social, moral, and legal considerations. The term intoxication is typically used in legal proceedings when some crime has been committed during a state of inebriation.
Contents
1 Intoxication 2 Action on the brain 2.1 Blackouts 3 Carcinogenic effects 4 Metabolism of alcohol and action on the liver 4.1 Dehydration 4.2 Hangover 5 Beneficial effects of alcohol 6 Effects by dose 6.1 Moderate doses 6.2 Excessive doses 7 See also 8 References 9 External links
Intoxication
Ethanol acts as a central nervous system depressant. In small amounts, ethanol causes a mild euphoria and removes inhibitions, and in large doses it causes drunkenness, generally at a blood ethanol content of about 0.1%. At higher concentrations, alcohol causes intoxication, coma and death.
A blood ethanol content above 0.4% can be fatal, although regular heavy drinkers can tolerate somewhat higher levels than non-drinkers.
Eight to ten drinks per hour is considered a fatal dosage for the average 54 kg {119 lb.} person. One drink is equivalent to one shot of 40% abv {80 proof} liquor, one 12 US fl oz {355 ml} beer, or one 4-5 US fl oz {120-150 ml} glass of wine.
In the UK, a "unit" of alcohol is 10 ml pure ethanol;
so examples of drinks containing one unit of alcohol include one 25 ml measure of spirits {40% ABV}, one 125 ml glass of weak wine {8% ABV}, one half-pint {284 ml} of weak {3.5% ABV} beer, or just over one third of a pint {about 200 ml} of "premium" {5% ABV} lager.
{Note that in fact most wines are about 12% ABV, so would contain 1.5 units per 125 ml glass, and that many establishments serve wine by the 175 ml glass. A 175ml glass of 12% wine contains 2.1 units of alcohol}.
To determine how many units an alcoholic drink contains a simple formula may be used:
(ABV*ml)/1000
Thus, a "shot" of 40% ABV liquor in the US {approximately 44ml vs. 1.5 US fl oz} is actually 1.76 units of alcohol {{40*44}/1000}. As a result, one U.S. "shot" of alcohol is almost double the amount experienced by the international community. As a result, "shot-takers" in the United States should be aware of the differences between the two standards and adjust accordingly to prevent alcohol overconsumption.
Alcoholism, addiction to alcohol, is a major public health problem. Alcoholics develop a number of health problems, with cirrhosis of the liver among the most significant.
Unlike withdrawal from some other drugs/intoxicants such as the opioids, withdrawal from heavy alcohol consumption can produce delirium tremens that can be fatal.
Any alcohol consumption during pregnancy carries a heavy risk of permanent mental and physical defects in the child, known as fetal alcohol syndrome.
Action on the brain
Ethanol is quickly absorbed into the bloodstream and reaches the brain. As a small molecule, it is able to cross the blood-brain barrier. For reasons that are still being studied, it then triggers the release of dopamine and endorphins into the bloodstream, which cause euphoria.
The CNS {Central Nervous System}
depressant effect likely is due to ethanol's acting on the BK channels. {1} A BK channel is a calcium dependent potassium channel. Ethanol potentiates the activity of BK channels, which reduces the excitability of the neuron. {2} It has been known to act on GABA receptors, but this is probably just a secondary effect from activation of the BK channels.
Its effect on GABA receptors can cause Anterograde amnesia, similar to benzodiazepines such as diazepam. {3} GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, meaning it acts to slow down or inhibit nerve impulses.
Ethanol increases the effectiveness of GABA acting through GABAA receptors. When used over a long time, ethanol changes the number and type of GABA receptors, and this is thought to be the cause of the violent withdrawal effects of alcoholics.
Ethanol also interferes with synaptic firing and thus, disrupts brain functions {4}, which is why one of the effects of hangover is lowered intellectual capacity.
The effect is caused by an increased concentration of intracellular calcium, which overstimulates neurons and causes them to lose their end segments {which are responsible for I/O operations in neurons}. The effect, however, is temporary {5}.
It is in fact proven that alcohol does not kill brain cells when drunk {6},{7} because at the concentrations which are typically reached when alcoholic drinks are consumed {0.1%} it is incapable of permanently harming neurons.
It is true that at higher concentrations {50%}, ethanol is highly toxic to most living organisms {which is why it can be used as a disinfectant}. However, loss of consciousness and death would result long before these concentrations are reached in the brain.
Blackouts
"Blacking out" or blackouts {a form of anterograde amnesia} are a common problem usually associated with heavy drinking.
They are characterized by a person's inability to recall events which occurred during the period of blacking out. Blackouts can be avoided or prevented by drinking less, drinking water and eating. {8} A 2001 survey at Duke University found that 7.1% of respondents had experienced blackouts within 2 weeks of the survey. {9}
Carcinogenic effects
Main article: Alcohol and cancer The International Agency for Research on Cancer {Centre International de Recherche sur le Cancer} of the World Health Organization has classified alcohol as a Group 1 carcinogen. Its evaluation states, "There is sufficient evidence for the carcinogenicity of alcoholic beverages in humans.
Alcoholic beverages are carcinogenic to humans {Group 1}."
{1} "Studies have suggested that high concentrations of acetaldehyde, which is produced as the body breaks down ethanol, could damage DNA in healthy cells. ... Researchers at the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism in Bethesda, Maryland, have added weight to this idea by showing that the damage occurs at concentrations of acetaldehyde similar to those in saliva and the gastrointestinal tract while people drink alcohol.
Acetaldehyde appears to react with polyamines - naturally occurring compounds essential for cell growth - to create a particularly dangerous type of mutagenic DNA base called a Cr-Pdg adduct..."{2}
The strongest link between alcohol and cancer involves cancers of the upper digestive tract, including the esophagus, the mouth, the pharynx, and the larynx. Less consistent data link alcohol consumption and cancers of the liver, breast, and colon.
Upper digestive tract.
Chronic heavy drinkers have a higher incidence of esophageal cancer than does the general population. The risk appears to increase as alcohol consumption increases. An estimated 75 % of esophageal cancers in the United States are attributable to chronic, excessive alcohol consumption.
Nearly 50 % of cancers of the mouth, pharynx, and larynx are associated with heavy drinking. According to mid-1980s U.S. case-control study, people who consumed an average of more than four drinks per day incurred a nine-fold increase in risk of oral and pharyngeal cancer,
while there was about a four-fold increase in risk associated with smoking two or more packs of cigarettes per day. Heavy drinkers who also were heavy smokers experienced a greater than 36-fold excess compared to abstainers from both products.
Liver. Prolonged, heavy drinking has been associated in many cases with primary liver cancer. However, it is liver cirrhosis, whether caused by alcohol or another factor, that is thought to induce the cancer.
In areas of Africa and Asia, liver cancer afflicts 50 or more people per 100,000 per year, usually associated with cirrhosis caused by hepatitis viruses. In the United States, liver cancer is relatively uncommon, afflicting approximately 2 people per 100,000, but excessive alcohol consumption is linked to as many as 36 % of these cases by some investigators.
Metabolism of alcohol and action on the liver
The liver contains a special enzyme {alcohol dehydrogenase} that breaks down alcohols into acetaldehyde, which is turned into acetic acid by the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, and then another enzyme converts the acetate into fats or carbon dioxide and water. The fats are mostly deposited locally which leads to the characteristic "beer belly".
Chronic drinkers, however, so tax this metabolic pathway that things go awry: fatty acids build up as plaques in the capillaries around liver cells and those cells begin to die, which leads to the liver disease cirrhosis. The liver is part of the body's filtration system and if it is damaged then certain toxins build up, thus leading to symptoms of jaundice.
The alcohol dehydrogenase of women is less effective than that of men. Combined with the lower amount of water in women's bodies, this means that women typically become drunk earlier than men.
Some people, especially those of East Asian descent, have a genetic mutation in their acetaldehyde dehydrogenase gene, resulting in less potent acetaldehyde dehydrogenase.
This leads to a buildup of acetaldehyde after alcohol consumption, causing hangover-like symptoms such as flushing, nausea, and dizziness. These people are unable to drink much alcohol before feeling sick, and are therefore less susceptible to alcoholism. {10}, {11}
This adverse reaction can be artificially reproduced by drugs such as disulfiram, which are used to treat chronic alcoholism by inducing an acute sensitivity to alcohol.
Dehydration
Consumption of ethanol has a rapid diuretic effect, meaning that more urine than usual is produced, since ethanol inhibits the production of antidiuretic hormone.
Overconsumption can therefore lead to dehydration {the loss of water}. It is impossible to replenish the body's fluids using only conventional alcoholic beverages. As these amounts of alcohol are consumed, the diuretic effect causes the body to lose more water than is contained in the beverage.
Hangover
Main article: Hangover A common after-effect of ethanol intoxication is the unpleasant sensation known as hangover, which is partly due to the dehydrating effect of ethanol.
Hangover symptoms include dry mouth, headache, nausea, and sensitivity to light and noise. These symptoms are partly due to the toxic acetaldehyde produced from alcohol by alcohol dehydrogenase, and partly due to general dehydration.
Dehydration causes the brain to shrink away from the skull slightly. The dehydration portion of the hangover effect can be mitigated by drinking plenty of water between and after alcoholic drinks.
Other components of the hangover are thought to come from the various other chemicals in an alcoholic drink, such as the tannins in red wine, and the results of various metabolic processes of alcohol in the body, but few scientific studies have attempted to verify this.
Consuming water between drinks is the best way to prevent or lessen the effects of a hangover. Another possible solution is to drink water to minimize the dehydrating effect of alcohol before sleeping.
Beneficial effects of alcohol
Several studies have shown that regular consumption of moderate amounts of alcohol {i.e., below recommended daily limits from US or UK sources} can lower the incidence of coronary heart disease and raise the level of high density lipoprotein cholesterol {"good cholesterol"}.
Moderate drinkers and consumers of alcohol tend to have better health and live longer than those who are either abstainers or heavy drinkers. In addition to having fewer heart attacks and strokes, moderate consumers of alcoholic beverages {beer, wine or distilled spirits or liquor}
are generally less likely to suffer hypertension or high blood pressure, peripheral artery disease, Alzheimer's disease, and the common cold. Sensible drinking also appears to be beneficial in reducing or preventing diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, bone fractures and osteoporosis, kidney stones, digestive ailments, stress and depression, poor cognition and memory, Parkinson's disease, hepatitis A, pancreatic cancer, macular degeneration {a major cause of blindness}, angina pectoris, duodenal ulcer, erectile dysfunction, hearing loss, gallstones, liver disease, and poor physical condition in the elderly.
See also: Alcohol consumption and health
Effects by dose Different concentrations of alcohol in the human body have different effects on the subject. The following lists the effects of alcohol on the body, depending on the blood alcohol concentration or BAC. For further references, refer: {12} {13} and {14}.
Please note: the BAC percentages provided below are just estimates and used for illustrative purposes only. They are not meant to be an exhaustive reference; please refer to a healthcare professional if more information is needed.
Euphoria {BAC = 0.03 to 0.12 %} Subject may become more self-confident or daring. Their attention span shortens. They may look flushed.
Their judgement is not as good -- they may express the first thought that comes to mind, rather than an appropriate comment for the given situation. They have trouble with fine movements, such as writing or signing their name.
Excitement {BAC = 0.09 to 0.25 %} Subject may become sleepy. They have trouble understanding or remembering things {even recent events}. They do not react to situations as quickly (if they spill a drink they may just stare at it}.
Their body movements are uncoordinated; they begin to lose their balance easily. Their vision becomes blurry. They may have trouble sensing things (hearing, tasting, feeling, etc.}.
Confusion {BAC = 0.18 to 0.30 %} Profound confusion -- uncertain where they are or what they are doing. Dizziness and staggering occur.
Heightened emotional state -- aggressive, withdrawn, or overly affectionate. Vision, speech, and awareness are impaired. Poor coordination and pain response. Nausea and vomiting often occur.
Stupor {BAC = 0.25 to 0.40 %} Movement severely impaired; lapses in and out of consciousness. Subjects can slip into a coma; will become completely unaware of surroundings, time passage, and actions.
Risk of death is very high due to alcohol poisoning and/or pulmonary aspiration of vomit while unconscious. Coma {BAC = 0.35 to 0.50 %} Unconsciousness sets in.
Reflexes are depressed {i.e., pupils do not respond appropriately to changes in light}. Breathing is slower and more shallow. Heart rate drops. Death usually occurs at levels in this range.
Death {BAC more than 0.50 %} Alcohol causes Central Nervous System to fail, resulting in death.
Moderate doses
Although alcohol is typically thought of purely as a depressant, at low concentrations it can actually stimulate certain areas of the brain. Alcohol sensitises the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) system of the brain, making it more receptive to the neurotransmitter glutamate. Stimulated areas include the cortex, hippocampus and nucleus accumbens, which are responsible for thinking and pleasure seeking.
Another one of alcohol's agreeable effects is body relaxation, possibly caused by heightened alpha brain waves surging across the brain. Alpha waves are observed {with the aid of EEGs} when the body is relaxed. Heightened pulses are thought to correspond to higher levels of enjoyment.
A well-known side effect of alcohol is lowering inhibitions. Areas of the brain responsible for planning and motor learning are dulled. A related effect, caused by even low levels of alcohol, is the tendency for people to become more animated in speech and movement.
This is due to increased metabolism in areas of the brain associated with movement, such as the nigrostriatal pathway. This causes reward systems in the brain to become more active, and combined with released inhibition can induce people to behave in an uncharacteristically loud and cheerful manner.
Behavioural changes associated with drunkenness are, to some degree, contextual. A scientific study found that people drinking in a social setting significantly and dramatically altered their behaviour immediately after the first sip of alcohol, well before the chemical itself could have filtered through to the nervous system.
Likewise, people consuming non-alcoholic drinks often exhibit drunk-like behaviour on a par with their alcohol-drinking companions even though their own drinks contained no alcohol whatsoever.
Excessive doses
The effect alcohol has on the NMDA receptors, earlier responsible for pleasurable stimulation, turns from a blessing to a curse if too much alcohol is consumed. NMDA receptors start to become unresponsive, slowing thought in the areas of the brain they are responsible for. Contributing to this effect is the activity which alcohol induces in the gamma-aminobutyric acid system {GABA}.
The GABA system is known to inhibit activity in the brain. GABA could also be responsible for the memory impairment that many people experience. It has been asserted that GABA signals interfere with the registration and consolidation stages of memory formation.
As the GABA system is found in the hippocampus, {among other areas in the CNS}, which is thought to play a large role in memory formation, this is thought to be possible.
Blurred vision is another common symptom of drunkenness. Alcohol seems to suppress the metabolism of glucose in the brain. The occipital lobe, the part of the brain responsible for receiving visual inputs, has been found to become especially impaired, consuming 29 % less glucose than it should. With less glucose metabolism, it is thought that the cells aren't able to process images properly.
Often, after much alcohol has been consumed, it is possible to experience vertigo, the sense that the room is spinning (referred to in certain circles as 'The Spins'}.
This is associated with abnormal eye movements called nystagmus, specifically positional alcohol nystagmus. In this case, alcohol has affected the organs responsible for balance {vestibular system}, present in the ears. Balance in the body is monitored principally by two systems: the semicircular canals, and the utricle and saccule pair.
Inside both of these is a flexible blob called a cupula, which moves when the body moves. This brushes against hairs in the ear, creating nerve impulses that travel through the vestibulocochlear nerve {Cranial nerve VIII} in to the brain.
However, when alcohol gets in to the bloodstream it distorts the shape of the cupola, causing it to keep pressing on to the hairs. The abnormal nerve impulses tell the brain that the body is rotating, causing disorientation and making the eyes spin round to compensate.
When this wears off {usually taking until the following morning} the brain has adjusted to the spinning, and interprets not spinning as spinning in the opposite direction causing further disorientation. This is often a common symptom of the hangover.
Another classic finding of alcohol intoxication is ataxia, in its appendicular, gait, and truncal forms. Appendicular ataxia results in jerky, uncoordinated movements of the limbs, as though each muscle were working independently from the others.
Truncal ataxia results in postural instability; gait instability is manifested as a disorderly, wide-based gait with inconsistent foot positioning. Ataxia is responsible for the observation that drunk people are clumsy, sway back and forth, and often fall down. It is probably due to alcohol's effect on the cerebellum.
Extreme overdoses can lead to alcohol poisoning and death due to respiratory depression.
A rare complication of acute alcohol ingestion is Wernicke encephalopathy, a disorder of thiamine metabolism. If not treated with thiamine, Wernicke encephalopathy can progress to Korsakoff psychosis, which is irreversible.
Chronic alcohol ingestion over many years can produce atrophy of the vermis, which is the part of the cerebellum responsible for coordinating gait; vermian atrophy produces the classic gait findings of alcohol intoxication even when its victim is not inebriated.
Severe drunkenness and diabetic coma can be mistaken for each other on casual inspection, with potentially serious medical consequences for diabetics.
The major physical finding they share is the sickly-sweet odour of ketosis on the breath; alcoholic ketosis and diabetic ketosis are both marked by the presence of acetone and other ketones in the bloodstream, although the ketones are produced by different metabolic pathways in each disorder.
Measurement of the serum glucose and ethanol concentrations in comatose individuals is routinely performed in the emergency department and easily distinguishes the two conditions.
See also Alcohol allergy Drinking culture Ethanol Alcoholism Hangover Alcohol consumption and health {focusing on long-term effects, both positive and negative} Alcoholic beverages -- recommended maximum intake
References ^ IARC Monographs on the Evaluation of Carcinogenic Risks to Humans: Volume 44 Alcohol Drinking: Summary of Data Reported and Evaluation ^ New Scientist article "Alcohol's link to cancer explained"
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
AAWWW!
Come on now Tree...that's not fair!
You know we can't read all that stuff!
Especially if we're half in the bag...Hic hic!
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Health
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6034
posted
some on here drink once in awhile.
Depends how sick you are, and if you can handle it. Also, dont drink on flagyl, deadly reaction.
I am a FIRM believer in moderation, if you can handle it.
Total avoidance can make SOME go nuts, so if this is you, try it, when you are not on flagyl, and see how you are.
If you keep obsessing about it, this stresses you more, lyme get worse.
If you drink it, and are sick, not more obsessing, and you can then know you cannot drink now, drink later.
Everyone is different, I am one of those that like to drink sometimes, but am too sick to handle it now, havent had a drink in several years. When I did have a couple ciders 5 years ago, I was FINE,
I had such a good time at our cabin, just with those 2 ciders and company, felt like i was living again.
I was not sick though like I am now, I did not know I had lyme back then, had started to get MCS.
YOu will get all kinds of opinions on here. There are wildys on here, and there are nondrinkers.
Wildys have a harder time sometimes, so test it out.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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geniveve
Unregistered
posted
my doctor said no way -- alcohol converts to sugar and lymies don't need sugar.
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by lymie tony z: AAWWW!
Come on now Tree...that's not fair!
You know we can't read all that stuff!
Especially if we're half in the bag...Hic hic!
zman
Sure it is hahahaha
-------------------------------------------------
Health
Depends how sick you are, and if you can handle it. Also, dont drink on flagyl, deadly reaction.
You I read that in the mfg's contraindacations thingy.
And last year during Penn state Games and Steeler Games I ignored there Warning quite a few times I was fine except for a little stomach discomfort and a couple of times a headache.
Then out of all those times it happened !!!I thought my head would explode after a few beers and my stomach hurt pretty bad !!.
So I see it as a hit and miss thing its good to listen to the Dr's on this one.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
TREE.........It's just cuz you're a steelers fan....
By the way they stole that game last year!
You can probably guess where I'm from originally!
Now I understand ya Tree!!.......hehehehehe...
zman(just a little friendly rivalry their tree)... I had to move all the way down here to get a "Super Bowl Team"...although Cleve won MANY NFL Championships prior to SUPER BOWLS...
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Re: fibrinogen...
We, who have been here a long time, remember the biofilm and fibrinogen discussions. How is Bb shielding its destruction?
(Besides the fact that Bb resists destruction from superoxide and H2O2 via using OUR antioxidant enzymes....)
What IF...
Bb is attaching to the heparin receptors on the cells that line the blood vessels and lymph vessels and via a PKC inhibitor (cause cell death), damaging those cells?
Bb looks to enter the cell, attaching to OUR DNA and likely breaks the hydrogen bonds.
Hydrogen (too much inside the cells) = metabolic acidosis.
Okay...now, when the cells lining the blood vessels are damaged, what would one expect the normal body response to be?
A "bandaid" of sorts?
It looks as though this stimulates the liver to release VLDL...very low density lipoproteins -> LDL = lousy cholesterol to form
PLAQUES.
Now that is "hardening of the arteries". They can't dilate. Blood pressure goes up.
Do these hard plaques make it harder for our antibodies/antibiotics to REACH the infected cells?
They might.
These cells that line the blood vessels are not as "protected" as other cells are because nutrients have to go from the blood stream into these cells (that line the blood and lymph vessels) to reach deeper tissues.
So...what this all boils down to is this:
Stop VLDL (very low density lipoprotein) release from the liver. We do this by INactivating an enzyme called HMG CoA reductase.
VLDL-> LDL -> HDL ( in a healthy situation...the good "excess" good cholesterol that returns to the liver carrying with it dangerous heavy metals to be removed from the body via bile salts).
There are many nutrients needed to make bile salts. Choline is one. A choline deficiency = "fatty liver". Bile is too THICK = Gall bladder sludge.
Now, we have to have some cholesterol. All our cells need it. We get cholesterol from the "good fats" we consume OR we make it.
Thus it is important to only consume what are the "good fats".
Bb looks to get a lot of its energy from the breakdown of sugars and fats.
NOT FROM PROTEIN.
Protein is high in nitrogen.
It looks like Bb doesn't particularly like nitrogen.
Bb has C-acetyltransferase as opposed to N-acetyltransferase.
Acetyl CoA comes FROM the breakdown of sugar and fats.
Bb also looks to be "downregulating" norepinephrine...as it "upregulates" acetylcholine. These are the 2 main neurotransmitters in the body.
Nitrogen is the "indole" part of melatonin. If you look at the molecular structure of melatonin, it looks like there is a lone nitrogen molecule just sorta sticking out of it.
Nitrogen...nitric oxide (to dilate the blood vessels and send in the "healing" things...like oxygen to halt the glycolysis ATP route)?
But vessels that are hardened won't respond if they are lined with plaque. They can't dilate.
Clear the plaque.
High doses of Crestor not only lowered someone's cholesterol recently, but the plaque CLEARED over months. This was in the news recently.
Ideally we'd use (safer, IMO) Mg to INactivate HMG CoA reductase since Mg (esp. citrates which convert to bicarbonates) also function to INactivate PFK...the "rate limiting" enzyme for glycolysis too.
If you chose to use cholesterol lowering drugs, it is important to find the ones that block HMG CoA reductase. AND...it is important to supp. at the same time with (expensive) CoQ10 since these drugs deplete this heart friendly enzyme.
Now, if you think a strict protein (chains of amino acids) diet would be a good thing...WARNING...the original Atkins diet caused kidney shutdown.
Too many proteins are really, really hard on the kidney cells which are struggling to maintain the pH/acid-base balance.
Too many acids harm HEALTHY cells. (Protein and fats are acidic.)
It also looks like one particular amino acid is really impacted. Tyrosine. The lowly "kid on the block". It has to compete with all the other amino acids for entry into cells.
Tyrosine is ONE of the things that looks to be able to INactivate NFkB which looks to be triggering the ongoing elevation of TNF alpha...as the body is trying to find another way to protect those infected and to rid Bb.
Yes, we need a LOT of acids normally, but we need minerals and glycogen too to balance the pH.
Information overload?
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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LostCityAgent
Unregistered
posted
I drink straight Whiskey in high dosese 2 times per week. I never have too bad a hang over.
ping
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6974
posted
jon,
I don't haven't the slightest idea the real effects (or affects?) that alcohol has on Bb, but I can tell you that for over 4 years, it's been more of a strain isolating myself from my friends by skipping happy hour that it's done me any good not drinking. Consequently, I now attend happy hour once per week with my friends and knock back 2 or 3 Margs and feel none the worse for it.
I also realize that Dr. B. is an authority on Lyme, but, no one seems to be talking about all the rx for pain pills that are regularly given to us so we can make it on a daily basis. I decided to skip more pills. I've given up on denying myself certain things. LIFE IS MUCH MORE FUN NOW!
"We are more than containers for Lyme." ping
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
I'm running into confusing research!
The proposed mechanism is metronidazole
***inhibition of aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH)***
similar to disulfiram. Following ingestion of alcohol,
***inhibition of ALDH results in increased concentration of acetaldehyde,***
the accumulation of which produces an unpleasant physiologic response referred to as the 'disulfiram reaction'.
or preparations that contain alcohol or additional propylene glycol should be avoided (see Interaction with Other Medicinal Products and Other Forms of Interaction).
Flagyl PREVENTS the breakdown of alcohol by reducing alcohol dehydrogenase OR inhibits aldehyde dehydrogenase?
Dry that pathogen out (alcohol is drying)? Impact on lipids? Na implications..esp. if Bb is also using Na to make ATP.
Very conflicting and confusing research!
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Health
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6034
posted
I was on Biaxin and Flagyl, about 3 years ago, I had just started treatment, was very ill...
and I took one of my Bach Flower Remedy which had alcohol in it, I took 3 drops, and was so ill.
I thought it was the bach flower I was reacting to, I then sook some heart drops which had alcohol in it, and was just as sick,
I had pain, gut wrenching pain, and breathing was horrid, Honestly, I thought I was going to die from the reaction, curled in a ball
on the floor for an hour or so.
Called pharmcist to ask her about this, and she said yes that the reaction between flagyl and alcohol can be that severe for some.
She said some could not even have mouth wash, they spit out, when they were on flagyl because the alcohol in the mouth wash absorbed into the body and the reaction started with the flagyl.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Hi I just must add my two cents here,I do not drnk now, I have not since dx. w/ late stage neuro lyme in 2006.
I was dx. 7 yeas after the bite / and the bullseye rash.The tick bite was in 1996, also withinn a few months my fiance & I split up ( I caught him cheating outright)We were a fun couple prior to the breakup, we went camping, rappeling, hiking , canoeing, rafting .. but mainly camping, hiking a rappeling at least 3 weekends out of each month for 5 years ,
we traveled to nearby southeastern states mainly, and even some northern destinations.This is how I acquired the tick and the rash etc..not in ga.I was initailly very ill after the tickbite and saw a dr. who did not even look at the lingering huge bullseye( I thought I had RMSF) he told me it was very rare - so no it was not likely, and he said if anything it would be Lyme but we don't have that here either, I said I was I out of state and that I know it was on me more than 24 hours because I couldn't tell what it was - location was hard to see. after it fed it engorged and I could feel it then.He said Lyme was not possible eithe nd gave me allergy meds for fluish symptoms since I was prone to allergies and sinus infections .
We broke up in 1996 in aug. it was very difficult for both of us,I lost about 25 lbs from the actual depression, and just not being able to eat.I was barely functional.Crying constantly..etc, looking back I know I had many beginning symptoms even back then..I felt very lonely and it made it worse so most of OUR friends had come thru him initially. I decided to keep contact with them minimal ..it just hurt too much because they were all stilll close w/him too
I met a few new friends ( because it was so difficult to do anything with our old friends even though they remained friends to us both) I just opted to move on completely,and my new friends & I were all single & had a ton in common , we began going out nightly after work ( I was a bratender for years , and they were mostly all in the restaurant , bar business too)
I had symptoms before I began the heavy drinking, just after the bite ....then I drank excessively- while tryimg to force myself to get back into the social scene but I have always had a high- high alcohol tolerance ,
My drinks were always strong liquior drinks - like straight vodka ,or teq , jager shots along with continual long Island teas nightly, we went every night to our favorite spot ( a local hangout where every one knew each other ) never missing a night..
We all worked in the restaurant & bar business as well, so we kept the same late hours..almost everyone after 10pm who worked at a local resturant/bar would converge at a irish bar/rest. nearby after work .
Well this went on for more than 2+ years, then I met someone I was more than breifly interested in..But during those two+ years I had fatigue and some other very mild seemingly unrelated lyme symptoms, fever , common fluish like symptoms , and if I did not drink that night then sleep disturbances etc.. but nothing too severe..
well we( he & I ) eventually moved in together 2 years later and stopped going to our hangout about another year later ....and then pretty much stopped drinking alltogether-
we both worked alot and just stoppped going to bars etc.. except on holiays at partys etc..shortly after this In dec. 2001 I began to get memory problems that were more than noticable - found I could not learn new tasks at work etc,
also I was serving at a different restaurant- and concerned because I had planned to bartend there ,but could not remember most of the ingredients in the more complicated drinks , and some of the shooters or avg. drinks I had made during 6 years bartending,
It really freaked me out because this was stuff I knew really well recently.. the symptoms , all hit me pretty hard over the next 9 months ,I signed up for company insurance and I started trying to figure out what was actually wrong with me,Finally Lyme was brought back to my attention, even though that prev. dr. had told me there was no way ..
Irealized I had symptoms that fit exactly. Thru lymenet I found a DR. and was seen & DX. Sept 28 2002 ( 7 years after remmoving the tick)
I really do believe alcohol somehow kept most of the major symptoms at bay, because once I stopped my heavy drinking the symptoms took over my life quickly .I had surely drank way too much for years ,but had alot of fun the the first time in many years .. but oddly when I stoppped again it was not a problem for me at all.. thank god..I just stoppped.
THe thing here is I have often wondered if alcohol kept the lyme bugs from taking over somehow.. even though it seemed like an odd theory - it was rare to see me awake without a strong mostly pure liqiour drink in my hand especially since I was a bartender I was also allowed to partake at work if I wished..and usually I would occasionally.
I have not drank for years except at holidays, went thru IV 15 months w/ LLMD .. I am not really better - a few things improved but a few new things began so its kinda a wash.I just recently started to alllow myself a glass of red wine with dinner a week, but I think hard liquior was actually kinda helpful in some weird way.Otherwise I just know I would have been this sick all along.
I am not advocating drinking but just telling you what I experienced, I am sure it had somthing to do with me not being sicker sooner than I was.
-------------------- Sandi ( badkitti30043) Posts: 664 | From Atlanta Ga. | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Badkitti I just had one thought. Maybe the symptoms were there and the alcohol masked them, and or, what were lyme symptoms were blamed on the alcohol. Just some food for thought. Believe me I am currently having an affair with an Old Grandad, I am experiementing with times of indulgence and how I feel. It still to early to tell the outcome.
Posts: 25 | From Lancaster PA | Registered: Aug 2006
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
TISK TISK...Avonrealtor....
I did'nt think they did that sort of thing in Lancaster PA...too many ahmish and like that...
Does the "Old Grand Dad" have lotsa money???
Just kidding....
zman LOL
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
So maybe the effects of alcohol drinking masks the symtoms of lyme? Once you stop feeling crappy from a hangover maybe you realize there are other things going on?
I met some friends at a smoky bar not too long ago, didn't drink and had a major hangover the next day. Now I wonder if it was always the smoke that made me feel so bad the next day but it sure wasn't the soda I was drinking.
Posts: 547 | From Maryland | Registered: Mar 2005
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Nal
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6801
posted
I had a few drinks last night (I posted about it under General). It nearly killed me! My stomach is still burning so bad today that I just want to die.
No more liquor for me-I am completely done with it.
Nancy
-------------------- Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!
-Chuck Swindoll Posts: 1594 | From Colorado | Registered: Jan 2005
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When I was a military wife living overseas they use to say this on the military radio station over and over and over.
We would all laugh and raise our arms and say ?sure"
I hav nothing to add from the medical side but I suspect that just as alcohol can temporarily alter your brain and memory that can probably extend to you body functions.
They even say you can permanently kill brain cells with alcohol. Perhaps getting sober make those soggy cells stand up and remember they have lyme/
Perhaps I should start raising my arms again and forgetting I have lyme. Lord knows I feel like Im in a drunken stupor most of the time anyway. CHEERS!!!!
Posts: 561 | From connecticut | Registered: May 2004
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Dave6002
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posted
Published online before print December 21, 2006 Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA
Ethanol prevents development of destructive arthritis
( inflammation | cytokines | sex hormones | antibodies | immunity ) Ing-Marie Jonsson *, Margareta Verdrengh *, Mikael Brisslert *, Sofia Lindblad *, Maria Bokarewa *, Ulrika Islander *, Hans Carlsten *, Claes Ohlsson {dagger}, Kutty Selva Nandakumar {ddagger}, Rikard Holmdahl {ddagger}, and Andrej Tarkowski *{sect}
*Department of Rheumatology and Inflammation Research and {dagger}Center for Bone Research at the Sahlgrenska Academy, G�teborg University, SE-405 30 G�teborg, Sweden; and {ddagger}Section for Medical Inflammation Research, Lund University, S-221 00 Lund, Sweden
Edited by Michael Sela, Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel, and approved November 9, 2006 (received for review September 29, 2006)
Environmental factors are thought to play a major role in the development of rheumatoid arthritis. Because the use of ethanol is widespread, we assessed the role of ethanol intake on the propensity to develop chronic arthritis. Collagen type II-immunized mice were given water or water containing 10% (vol/vol) ethanol or its metabolite acetaldehyde. Their development of arthritis was assessed, as well as the impact of ethanol on leukocyte migration and activation of intracellular transcription factors. Mice exposed daily to this dose of ethanol did not display any liver toxicity, and the development of erosive arthritis was almost totally abrogated. In contrast, the antibody-mediated effector phase of collagen-induced arthritis was not influenced by ethanol exposure. Also, the major ethanol metabolite, acetaldehyde, prevented the development of arthritis. This antiinflammatory and antidestructive property of ethanol was mediated by (i) down-regulation of leukocyte migration and (ii) up-regulation of testosterone secretion, with the latter leading to decreased NF-{kappa}B activation. We conclude that low but persistent ethanol consumption delays the onset and halts the progression of collagen-induced arthritis by interaction with innate immune responsiveness.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Well gee folks....I don't know about the rest of you but Lyme itself made me feel high and drunk all the time.
Going thru that I never understood WHY people actually took the time to make them selfs feel that way - considering I fought so hard to not feel that way, I hated the feeling of not being in control of my mind and body - and just having Lyme did that to me everyday.
Oftem I walked as tho I was drunk and often I felt high.
Beer is very high in YEAST as well as wine, not to mention it all contains sugar for the most part - which is not good for any Lyme person in my opinion, considering we need to focus on the yeast/sugar content on top of the Lyme!
If you are yeasty - one beer and or one glass of wine (ok maybe 2) can set you so far back it isn't funny.
I'd much rather get my "high" on LIVING - LIFE and LOVE!
[ 29. December 2006, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Ladylee210 ]
Posts: 374 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2006
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Alcohol kills people!! As a professional drug & alcohol counselor I can say that alcohol destroys brain cells and we Lymies have enough trouble with our brains already!!! It is BAD for LYmies- Doc B says stay away!!!
I personally believe that more alkies and addicts have Lyme than other groups, whether because of the homelessness that makes people vulnerable to tick bites or from those drunken whimsical rollings in the grass...
I haven't had a drink or drug in 17 years, since I was 21...
AND IN FACT they have found that ethanol impairs the bodys ability to fight borrelia in the rat model- voila*) and may make one more susceptible to infection in the first place- Take care guys, Sarah aka CaliforniaLyme
1: Clin Diagn Lab Immunol. 2002 Mar;9(2):282-6. Links Impaired bactericidal activity and host resistance to Listeria monocytogenes and Borrelia burgdorferi in rats administered an acute oral regimen of ethanol. Pavia CS, Harris CM, Kavanagh M. Department of Microbiology, New York College of Osteopathic Medicine of the New York Institute of Technology, Old Westbury, New York 11568, USA. [email protected]
A rat model was used to examine how ethanol ingestion may interfere with antimicrobial immunity both in vitro and in vivo. Nonimmune Long-Evans rats were given a short-course treatment orally with excessive amounts of ethanol. Their spleens were removed at the time of sacrifice, and separate spleen cell suspensions were prepared and tested in vitro for their ability to kill two bacterial pathogens, Listeria monocytogenes and Borrelia burgdorferi. After the bacteria were mixed separately with various concentrations of spleen cells, it was found that spleen cells from the ethanol-treated rats killed fewer bacteria than matching pair-fed controls, based on counts of the number of cultured CFU (for Listeria) or based on microscopic examination (for Borrelia). For the in vivo studies, ethanol-treated and control rats were infected intraperitoneally with Listeria, and then, 1 to 3 days later, they were assessed for systemic infection based on the numbers of organisms present in their livers and spleens. Numbers of bacterial CFU for both organs were significantly higher in the group fed ethanol for the first 2 days after listerial challenge.
These results support the concept that acute exposure to high levels of ethanol can impair host defense mechanisms, especially those expressed at the cellular level, which could lead to increased susceptibility to certain types of infections.
PMID: 11874864 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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Member # 7136
posted
Immune-Response to the Lyme Spirochete Borrelia-Burgdorferi Affected by Ethanol-Consumption, Pavia CS, Bittker S, Cooper D, IMMUNOPHARMACOLOGY 22: (3) 165-174 NOV-DEC 1991 Rats fed excessive amounts of ethanol developed marked hematologic and immunologic changes. These included a reversal of the normal lymphocyte to granulocyte ratio in the peripheral blood, lower spleen and lymph node weights and a greatly reduced capacity to express normal cell mediated immune functions, based on poor lymphocyte reactivity in vivo, and in vitro to T and B cell mitogens and borrelial antigens shortly after primary immunization with the bacterial spirochete, Borrelia burgdorferi. Further evidence for impaired immune function caused by ethanol was based on little or no antibody response against Borrelia in rats following in vivo sensitization with B. burgdorferi incorporated in complete Freund's adjuvant. These findings provide substantial direct evidence strengthening the notion that high levels of ethanol ingestion adversely affect the host immune system and can interfere with the immune response to microorganisms.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064
posted
Interesting.
The two above studies used excessive amounts of ethanol.
Wondering how much are they?
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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