Topic: Can TBDs lead to false-positive test for AIDS? Theory in progress.
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Has anyone heard of someone's immune system being taken down sufficiently by any tick-borne diseases to test positive for AIDS?
I know someone who was diagnosed & treated for Lyme I think around 1990. A couple of years later, after being treated and ending up with severe peripheral neuropathy, he tested positive for AIDS and can not imagine where he got it.
He's been being treated for it ever since. He's been around my daughter and I when we've been sick, goes to the supermarket full of germs and is not at all careful about germs.
If he ever does get whatever is going around, he's better before the rest of us.
[ 05. September 2006, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Seems highly unlikey. I have not heard of anyone gettting HIV from a tick bite.
Also, I am not sure what you mean by a couple of years, but it would generally take some time for someone to have full-blown AIDS after the time that they were infected with HIV. A couple of years seems pretty quick.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I've never heard of lyme turning into AIDS either...
However...
One of my illustrious Infectious Disease(Idiot) Ducks told me I did'nt have lyme, I had Auto Immune Deficientcy Syndrome...
An Acronym for that would be AIDS....
This is what likely happened to this individual...
If, however, this person you know had at one time or another tested positive for HIV Virus...then I suppose it is possible to have both.
Why not!..........the little buggers are out there! zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
I would try to contact Dr. J's office in NC. He treats HIV/AIDS patients as well as Lyme patients. Maybe he would have some answers or thoughts.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
While it is true that borreliosis does undermine the immune system it is caused by a spirochete or rather by a family of spirochetes. Aids is caused by a virus or rather by two different but related strains of a virus. We in the United States live in a country where the more virilent form is present.However it is still a viral infection. It cannot be communicated by going to the supermarket or anything beyond the actual transmission of body fluids carrying the virus. So your suppositions are without foundation in fact.
-------------------- Thomas Parkman Posts: 341 | From Columbia SC 29206 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Thanks for all the input, everyone!
Zman,
If I may ask, when the duck told you had AIDS, had he run any kind of tests? Or did tests prove him wrong? I'm just worried that he's being treated for the wrong disease. That he may somehow test false-positive for HIV/AIDS.
My thinking is that the testing for Aquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS) is based on T-cell count and Viral Load and they are now finding that Lyme also affects your T-cell count.
I'm wondering if perhaps some combination of Lyme and Babesia or other TBDs might effect T-cells enough over the long term to cause an incorrect diagnosis for AIDs.
I think he was tested by ID Dr. just after being treated for Lyme. This is the same ID that I went to with my list of symptoms a couple of years ago. He tested me for everything except TBDs.
Surprise! My tests after recent tick bites show that I had Babesia prior to the bite. Based on symptoms, at least Lyme too and who knows what else.
I tried to convince him to be tested for TBDs because he still has a multitude of symptoms (which he now attributes to the AIDS meds). He said the duck told him not to worry about Lyme, with all the medications he's on it should kill off anything and Lyme would be the least of his problems right now.
Hey, wait a minute.... Does this mean the duck knows the cure for Lyme???? Why is everyone else in the world wasting their time playing with antibiotics when they could just be treated with AIDS meds?
Aniek,
Thanks so much. Is Dr. J LLMD? Do you think he might actually take the time to talk to me about it? Could you please pm me his name & number, if you have it?
Mr. Parkman,
Thank you for your insight. However, I think you may have misconstrued my meaning with regard to the "supermarket germs". I did not think that he picked up the HIV there, I am well aware that it is not possible. If It were, my family would likely starve to death. (Ha!Ha!)
My point to that was, when a person is actually in AIDS status aren't they more succeptable to severe illness from common cold and flu bugs? It seems that his ability to fight off these illnesses is greater than anyone else I know.
I really do not have a thorough understanding of HIV/AIDS. I guess that may be where my confusion stems from.
I have heard that there is a question as to whether a form of HIV may be harbored at an insignificant level in most people's bodies. Which may be completely inaccurate. I also don't know how the "viral load" testing works.
Does it specifically detect the HIV in the blood or does it detect any form of virus? If it were any virus then something like a Herpes virus or Epstein Barr could be counted as well. I've researched spirochetes and some other bacteria but really have no knowledge of viruses.
I would really appreciate if you would be so kind as to elaborate a little on the facts for me.
Thank you all again. I truly value your input! Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
AliG, Testing for HIV is usually based on an antibody response to the virus: ELISA followed by a Western Blot.
These tests are far more accurate in HIV than Lyme.
The viral load would be specific for HIV and not viruses in general. Here is some more information. http://familydoctor.org/654.xml
Hope this helps.
Posts: 628 | From the south | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Thanks Serendipity!
That really answered alot of questions for me. Then I decided to google & see what else was out there.
I came up with a group of dissidents who diagree with the mainstream thinking, much like us and Lyme. they dispute the accuracy of testing, as well. Aids Reappraisal
I couldn't read the whole thing yet because my brain is getting foggy. It does make me wonder, though. How can there be such inaccuracy in Lyme and the multitude of other TBD testing and yet extreme accuracy in AIDS.
I know this person had many more Lyme symptoms than AIDS symptoms and had tested positive for Lyme. He only went through a couple of courses of ABX and would have had Lyme & possibly other TBDs for many, many years.
Do people simply accept it as accurate because of the fear & panic it generates? They must immediately get treatment and hide from the world.
The subject of AIDS has such a social stigma that I don't think those diagnosed with it often speak openly about it. (Also like us.) We get labelled hypochondriac. They get labelled other things.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
AliG,
Prior to my lyme diagnosis I had a comprehensive STD test done cuz I was starting a new relationship.
Herpes - because of chicken pox as a child was the only thing that showed up.
After my lyme diagnosis I had another comprehensive blood test for ANYTHING out there and I came up with Herpes 1 thru infinity;HPV;HGE;EBV;...no HIV.
The duck that told me I had Autoimune Deficiency Syndrome was speaking in terms of what SOME mainstream ducks refer to when they won't admit a patient has a persistant;resistant infection from a TBD.
They just tell ya this crap so they don't have to treat ya......
Your friend...like me...probably has lyme...especially if he/she is resistant to normal bacillia going around.
I rarely get colds in the past eight years I've been ill with lyme....so SOMETHING weird is going on to keep bacilis and viral diseases away from me....
I would suggets a second opinion...like the one suggested earlier from an aids/lyme doctor.
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Ali,
HIV is a virus that causes AIDS. The HIV virus is the only known cause of AIDS.
What is commonly referred to as an AIDS test is actually an HIV test. But doctors do use T-Cell counts to track the progression of AIDS.
That is because you can have the HIV virus for years before getting AIDS. The AIDS treatments do not kill the virus, but suppress it to prevent or delay the onset of AIDS.
So I can't see how a Lyme infection would result in a false-positive HIV test. If somebody tests positive for the HIV virus, then its pretty definite they have HIV. And it's extremely important to follow the medication protocol to slow the onset of AIDS.
If somebody has actual AIDS onset, the medications can control AIDS incredibly well. Because of these medications, people can live very normal lives compared to a number of years ago. So they could likely be exposed to common germs.
You don't need to hide from the world if you are HIV positive. People who are HIV positive live very high functioning lives with treatment.
There is a connection between HIV and AIDS. There is a large difference in the number of people with the onset of AIDS in cultures/societies/subcultures that routinely test for HIV and start treatment with HIV positive results and those that do not.
There has been a lot more money, research and scientific attention given to HIV/AIDS than to Lyme. So there is much better knowledge of the disease.
If somebody has AIDS symptoms but is not HIV positive, then it would make me wonder. That was why I mentioned Dr. J, who is an LLMD.
But if your friend is HIV positive, then your friend has the HIV virus. It's always possible he has HIV and Lyme. It's possible your friend does know how he got infected but does not wish to share the information because it's a bit more private than getting bitten by a tick.
-Aniek
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Thanks again for more info! This is all very interesting.
I'm finding some info now that there are scientists that actually challenge the existance of HIV. There are also quite a number of links for both sides.
I might actually have to stop this for the night. My Lyme-brain is starting to hurt. I hope to get back into it again tomorrow.
Thanks again! Ali
PS- Here's another link I found if anyone else wants to take a look. www.reviewingaids.org
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
I presume he did not have a blood transfusion many, many years ago before they started screening the blood supply for HIV?
Just throwing it out there as one more remote possibility.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Ali,
This is from a paper in the link you posted:
"I propose an alternative hypothesis for the etiology of AIDS, based on the second of these two mechanisms of contagion in man. This will posit a psychosocial origin of epidemic AIDS, which will lie on the cusp between immunology, pathology and psychology (the latter including the psychology of both individuals and groups)...
...AIDS is a typical example of epidemic hysteria"
This theory is saying that AIDS is created by society and is related to depression in those with AIDS. I find this theory sickening and degrading to the people who are suffering from AIDS.
I also believe that any theory saying a deadly disease is caused by social psychological factors can hurt those of us suffering from diseases like chronic Lyme that many doctors do not believe exist.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
quote:Originally posted by Jill E.: I presume he did not have a blood transfusion many, many years ago before they started screening the blood supply for HIV?
No he didn't. There was something he thought of but it was really far-fetched and seemed highly unlikely.
My concern for him is whether or not he may have been misdiagnosed. By the treatment he received back then, he should still have Lyme.
His symptoms have continued to progress along the lines of Lyme. His heart is now failing. Bypass surgery is too risky because of the "AIDS".
I guess maybe I would like to believe that it could be possible for him to have been misdiagnosed.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
quote:Originally posted by Aniek:
This theory is saying that AIDS is created by society and is related to depression in those with AIDS. I find this theory sickening and degrading to the people who are suffering from AIDS.
I also believe that any theory saying a deadly disease is caused by social psychological factors can hurt those of us suffering from diseases like chronic Lyme that many doctors do not believe exist.
Which link was that from? I didn't come across anything of that nature, yet. If I did, I may have ignored it. I believe I read that the second link does not restrict or monitor the opinions posted there, I don't know about the first.
Just as there is ignorance with Lyme (people who believe us to be hypochondriacs), there is also ignorance with AIDS. I'll bet it's probably the same group of people and I'll bet they're all quite healthy.
In fact there is a great deal of ignorance everywhere on many different subjects. I am sure there always will be.
I feel sorry for people like that. How sad it must be to be them. Shooting off their mouths on topics they know nothing about.
Can you imagine how they would feel if they actually had to experience these things after speaking out against others?
I was actually looking for any factual information to support the inaccuracy of testing in AIDS, as there is so much in support of Lyme testing inaccuracy.
I'm sorry if you found information that was offensive to you. That was not my intent.
Thank you for trying to help me sort through it. I really appreciate your effort.
Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[dizzy]](graemlins/dizzy.gif)
I hope to get back into it again tomorrow.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[sleepy]](graemlins/sleepy.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic