posted
HI, i was looking for any input from anyone who has tried this protocol, if it has helped or not,and a little bit about your story, thanks,. Deanne
Posts: 163 | From maine | Registered: Oct 2003
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tabbytamer
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Zhang's AIC herbs helped me wonderfully when I was just strting abx treatment. My LLMD suggested it.
I was to take AIC during my really rough herx times, and it did help quickly and effectively.
But everyone's body reacts so differently. Have you tried any of his products?
posted
hi Tabby, thanks for responding. so far i have been hearing good things about this protocol, just not a lot of feedback yet, as for me i can't really afford the protocol yet, but i'm working on it,thanks again, Deanne
Posts: 163 | From maine | Registered: Oct 2003
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JimBoB
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posted
IF you can't afford that protocol. Why not read the healing Lyme book by Stephen Buhner and try HIS protocol.
It is much cheaper and you also get the benefits of the WHOLE herbs in instead of the expensive extracts.
Plus IF you buy it in bulk and encapsulate it, you will save a bundle. Like about 4 to 5 times cheaper than capsules done commercially.
Dave6002
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posted
Just got the book. Some interesting claims from the book:
1. Zhang's clinic has treated more than one thousand of LD patients, 60% of which turned asymptomatic, 80% improved following herbal treatment.
2. MCM treatment can eradicate Bbs and coinfectiobs.
3. The treatment course for chronical Lyme is at least 6 months.
4. The costs for MCM is about one-twentieth of the cost of conventional treatment: ~$2000.
5. MCM can be used with antibiotics. No adverse interaction has been observed.
----Then the combination could be better than either alone?
6. The diet for chronical LD is Dr. Andrew Weil's "anti-inflammatory diet": The calories 40-59% from carbohydrates, 30% from fat and 20-30% from proteins.
---no carbohydrate-free!!
7. MCM remedies have low toxicity, don't cause serious side effects.
Interesting, the herbs he used don't overlap much with Buhner's.
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Dave6002
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I got the Healing Lyme book first and I am on the protocol and seeing some benefits.
A lot of people here have good experience on it, but seems few people know Zhang's protocol and his book.
Interestingly both books are mainly based on Chinese medicine, but they don't have much overlaps.
Now I have the two books and I am going to add some Zhang's herbs into Buhner's herebs.
One of these herbs is Coptis. I remember that JimBob here is trying this.
Sure his extracts are expensive, so I may just get the whole herbs from the interenet and find out if it's effective.
Right now I am on both abx and herbs and was thinking that the combinational therapy should produced better results.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
thanks jimbob and dave, i appreciate your input. jimbob i have read Burhner's book and found it very interesting, unfortunatly i'm new to natural remedies and do not know much at all and am trying to learn, i haven't heard much about results of using his protocol but there are several people using zhang's that i know and are having good results. thank you both again, deanne
Posts: 163 | From maine | Registered: Oct 2003
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5dana8
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hey Dave6002
Do you have to buy the herbs from Zang? Or can they be bought from other sources.
I am always a little skeptical about buying herbs from someone - like here's my book & here are my herbs.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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timaca
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posted
A friend of mine who has had lyme for 20 years has been using Dr. Z's herbs for 10 months or so, and has seen improvements. She is not yet well, but she is better.
I think you have to buy the herbs from him (or from his company)
Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by bbinme?: thanks jimbob and dave, i appreciate your input. jimbob i have read Burhner's book and found it very interesting, unfortunatly i'm new to natural remedies and do not know much at all and am trying to learn, i haven't heard much about results of using his protocol but there are several people using zhang's that i know and are having good results. thank you both again, deanne
Deanne: I NEVER tried an herb before Novermber 25, 2005. That was after reading Buhner's book. I have never looked back. I really don't think I would still be here without them. I was a walking zombie last year. Felt like it was the end for me. And I have been close to it before so know how it feels.
BUHNER's protocol DOES work. Many here on this board have testified as to such. plus I am sure many elsewhere.
Dave6002
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posted
Hi, Dana,
I briefly read his book and the most of his herbs are quite common, can be got from the internet.
For his Allicin Capsule, I am using 2 to 4 cloves of raw garlic per day.
For Artemisia capsule, I am taking Artemether, you can buy artemisinin from the web.
I also have ordered Coptis and Cordyceps from the internet and I'll try out once I have them.
These herbs seems are core herbs in his protocol, all can be purchased from the internet and the usages are well documented. I think there is no big secret.
From his book, the cost is about $2,000 ( I guess is for 6 months).
But for saving money and also want to try combinational therapy(Buhner+Zhang+Abx), I am trying to buy these herbs from the internet.
Good luck.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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Carol in PA
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Deanne: Here are the Zhang links that I've saved.
Carol
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klutzo
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posted
The Zhang protocol was the first treatment I tried, and I stuck to the entire protocol exactly for six months, getting my herbs from Hepapro.
The only side effect was smelling awful, so bad my husband would not go near me, and I had to explain to everyone why I smelled like garlic.
I never herxed on this protocol, and did not see any improvement until I gave it up and switched to Samento.
It took another six months before I could stand to use garlic in cooking again....I was overdosed on it. Zhang's protocol also cost too much for me. At least it did not harm me, like one other treatment I tried (MOH Lyme sets).
In a previous post, the important herbs in the Zhang protocol were mentioned with alternate sources, but I think HH was left out. HH is one of the most important Bb killers in the protocol.
Klutzo
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luvs2ride
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posted
I have a friend on Zhang's herbs. She has even been to his clinic in NY. She is doing very well.
Someone mentioned Dr Weil's diet but no one else picked up on it. Diet is #1. No matter what treatment course you follow, healing your gut is a must in order to get well.
I'm not familar with Dr Weil's diet, but Dr Weil enjoys a very good reputation in the alternative medicine world and I am sure recommends a healthy diet.
I do not think any one diet is the correct diet for all. Each of us is different and must determine which foods our body needs. One thing for sure, none of us need sugar and processed foods. Poison to us all!!!!
For some, meat is bad. For some, carbs are bad. For some, gluten is out (many more of us than we realize). Diary is bad for many.
I found a doctor who specializes in nutrition to help me heal my gut. My first meeting with him was not stellar. He is very blunt. He said "I'm not convinced you have lyme". "I'm not convinced you have Rheumatoid Arthritis". "You have been duck hunting but instead of shooting at the duck, you are shooting at the sound of ducks". In other words, clinical diagnosis can be wrong!!! For instance, he was sure my thyroid was enlarged, but bloodwork said it was functioning normally so he left it alone. My DHEA, however, was so low it was almost non-existent. He is supplementing my DHEA. Tests showed heavy metal toxicity, heavy yeast infestation, parasites in my blood.
He is working specifically with what is wrong with me. We ran the ALCAT food allergy bloodtest and I have eliminated the foods I am allergic to.
I am thriving! Furthermore, I can now tell which foods trigger my joint pain. Avoid them and I am pain free.
Diet is absolutely #1 treatment and should be done in conjunction with any other treatment. Especially important if you are on abx because the abx are so damaging to the gut. Of course, probiotics are a must as well. Probably need enzymes (mega) and many other things. Each of us will have specific deficiencies that need to be addressed.
Until we do, we won't get well no matter whose protocol we follow.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Can anyone tell me where Dr. Zhang's clinic is and is it very expensive to see him?
Posts: 425 | From NY, United States | Registered: Mar 2005
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Carol in PA
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posted
Zhang Clinic 420 Lexington Avenue, Graybar Building Suite 631 New York, NY 10170 Tel: (212) 573-9584 Fax: (212) 573-6639
posted
Dave: Be REAL careful taking Coptis. Go super slow and always remember: IT is THE strongest herb you can buy out there withOUT a prescription. I overdosed on it the first time around and it was NOT fun.
I am taking it now with no trouble after the first couple of days. But be SUPER careful. IT is nothing to fool with.
Dave6002
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posted
Jim, Thanks for the warning.
I have known you for a while and like reading your posts, knowing you have a lot of sucesfull experiences on herbs.
quote:IT is THE strongest herb you can buy out there withOUT a prescription.
You well said it. Purified Coptis is stronger than some abx in treating diarrhea and has been long used in China.
But I would like to use the raw herb, cuz I have reason to suspect that the purified Coptis is not true Coptis.
Take care and hope you'll post more to share your experiences.
Dave
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Dave6002
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NEW USES OF BERBERINE
A Valuable Alkaloid from Herbs for "Damp-Heat" Syndromes
by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine, Portland, Oregon
BACKGROUND
Berberine is an isoquinoline alkaloid with a bright yellow color that is easily seen in most of the herb materials that contain any significant amount of this compound. Among Chinese herbs, the primary sources are phellodendron and coptis (similar isoquinoline alkaloids, in these herbs, such as jateorrhizine, coptisine, palmatine, and columbamine, also have a yellowish color). Berberine has long been used as a dye; it is currently known as "natural yellow 18," being one of about 35 yellow dyes from natural sources. Chemical structure of berberine
Chemical structure of berberine. British booklet on berberine British booklet on berberine.
Coptis chinensis rhizomes (huanglian; literally "yellow thread") and related species used as its substitutes have about 4-8% berberine, while Phellodendron amurense bark (huangbo, literally "yellow bo," where bo is this particular type of tree) has about half as much, at 2-4% berberine. This compound is also found in the less commonly used Chinese herb sankezhen (B. sargentiana) and in the Japanese barberry (woody portion of Berberis thunbergii). All of these herbs are known as therapies for damp-heat syndromes, particularly for intestinal and lung infections, and they are used topically for various skin diseases. Several Western herbs also contain berberine, such as barberry root bark (Berberis vulgaris), Oregon grape root (Berberis aquifolium), and goldenseal root (Hydrastis canadensis). Berberine was isolated and used as an herbal drug in China 50 years ago (the drug forms are usually the hydrochloride or sulfate; the chloride, as used in the dye, may have the strongest antiseptic action). It has since become an ingredient in several Western herbal products, particularly for treatment of intestinal infections.
Coptis and phellodendron have been used in China for treating gastrointestinal diseases with reported success; applications have included acute gastroenteritis, cholera, and bacillary dysentery. So, the first applications of isolated berberine were for treatment of these conditions. Recent clinical trials have yielded conflicting results as to which of the disease organisms causing intestinal symptoms are responsive to berberine (1, 2). Tests of the antiseptic action of berberine against bacteria, yeasts, viruses, and amoebas have shown a range of activity levels from apparent potent action to mild suppression. Inhibition of giardia and of candida have been areas of considerable interest and initial positive research results have led to development of several herb products for those applications.
Whole coptis rhizomes
Sliced coptis.
Soon after berberine was prepared as an isolated agent for clinical use, it was noted that berberine had other potential benefits; for example, it appeared to reduce high blood pressure at doses of about 1 gram per day (3). The hypotensive action of berberine has been confirmed in several pharmacology experiments, but follow-up clinical trials have been lacking. Still, this effect of berberine fortunately led to further testing of the compound for patients with cardiovascular disease risk factors, and evidence developed to demonstrate a lowering of cholesterol (and triglycerides) and of blood sugar. These new findings are the main focus of this brief report.
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Dave: I am using the Plum Flower Brand from 1st Chinese Herbs. It is NOT adulterated. But I use it in powdered form to encapsulate it.'
It cost me $73.00 for one pound of it. I keep it refrigerated as it does not have any additives or preservatives in it. It is vacuum packed.
Regarding Coptis, I don't think we have to scare people to death. I have been taking it for a few months with absolutely no problems (and I am very sensitive to most potions). I started at the recommended 1/2 tsp and then moved to 1 tsp. We are all, thankfully, individuals so our response will, of course, be different.
Sadie
Posts: 115 | From new york | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I met Dr. Zhang at his clinic about 5 years ago and tried the protocol. I could not stay on the allicin because I smelled so bad from it I was not able to go to work like that. I also found it impossible to sleep at all while on the protocol. I returned all the herbs I purchased from the clinic and they refunded my money with no questions asked. They were very pleasant but it just wasnt for me. I hope it works out for you.
DawnE
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timaca
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posted
I have one friend that has used only his protocol for the last year (almost a year). She has seen significant improvements (she's had lyme for 20 years). She is not yet well though.
Timaca ps...I should add that she does not use his garlic, but uses the garlic capsules from New Chapter. She doesn't smell that way!
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JimBoB
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posted
Sadie: WHO was scaring anyone to death? Were you scared to DEATH? I am ALL for herbs? But they are medicine too.
AND we MUST be careful HOW we take them, along with any good medicines. There is such a thing as "healthy fear". THAT is what I am talking about. IF people don't want to listen, so be it. BUT IF even one person is helped to keep from overdosing, or worse, it is worth it in my book.
Take Coptis, I do, NOW. BUT don't take it with other things such as Andrographis, or you COULD be in big trouble. Take ONE or the OTHER, not both at once.
That's interesting about coptis. Since Buhner doesn't include that in his book, where did you find your best source of information to come from.
Why do you suggest doing either coptis or andrographis? Are they similiar in actions?
By the way, I thought your message was clear and not scary in terms of respecting the coptis.
Posts: 460 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2005
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5dana8
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posted
Thanks carol
I found it: HH-Houttuyniae Herba is the leaf of hottuynia Cordata thumb(Saururaceae)
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by chroniccosmic: Jim Bob,
That's interesting about coptis. Since Buhner doesn't include that in his book, where did you find your best source of information to come from.
Why do you suggest doing either coptis or andrographis? Are they similiar in actions?
By the way, I thought your message was clear and not scary in terms of respecting the coptis.
## I had to learn the hard way. I am hoping to help someone so they don't have to do that too. YES, androgaphis and Coptis do much the same, only Coptis is MUCH stronger. THAT in itself MAY be WHY Buhner didn't include it in his book.
I Googled it to find info on it. ALSO, Sarah, at 1st Chinese Herbs gave me a lot of info on it. When in doubt on mixing herbs, talk to her. She chastized me many times on Coptis, reiterating over and over how to be soooooo careful taking Coptis. It sunk in.
I first heard about Coptis from someone on this board. But because I could vary the doses of all the herbs in Buhners book without getting into trouble, I thought I could do it with Coptis also. NOT! IT is very strong. Use it IF you can, but please, please respect it for what it is.
It is also quite expensive. But since you don't use as much of it, it probably isn't any more expensive in the long run.
Take care, all. I am off on my trip to Texas for the next six days or so. Well over 3000 miles.
Dave6002
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posted
H-H:
Houttuynia (yu xing cao) Herba Houttuyniae
Properties: Pungent in flavour, cold in nature, it acts on the lung channel. The cold property clears away heat, the pungent flavour dissolves boils. It has the functions of clearing away heat, detoxicating, dissolving boils and draining pus. It may therefore be used to treat abscesses in both internal organs and external infections. It is always an important medicine for treating pulmonary abscess because the herb is mainly acting in lung. In addition, it is able to clear the damp-heat pathogens in the large intestine and bladder and treat diarrhea due to damp-heat, urination disturbance and stranguria.
Indications: 1. For pulmonary abscess, coughing with purulent blood, it is used in combination with the drugs for clearing away heat, dissolving boils and draining pus, such as reed rhizome, platycodon root and waxgourd seed. In cases of cough due to lung-heat, it is used with scutellaria root and trichosanthes fruit to clear away heat and resolve phlegm.
2. For suppurative infections caused by noxious heat, hemorrhoid with swelling and pain, it is used in combination with heat-clearing and detoxicating drugs, such as wild chrysanthemum flower, dandelion herb, sophora fruit, etc.
In addition, it can also be used to treat dysentery and stranguria caused by damp-heat.
Dosage and Administration: 10-30g, Do not decoct for a long time.
Air ship 500 grams (about 1.1 pound) of Houttuynia (yu xing cao) for your personnel use
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Dave6002
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posted
Coptis Root (huang lian)
Rhizonma Coptidis
Properties: Bitter in flavour, cold in nature, it acts on the heart, liver, gallbladder, spleen, stomach and large intestine channels. The herb is very strong in clearing heat and dampness and detoxicating toxins by the properties of extremely bitter and cold. It is particulary effective in clearing away the heat in heart and middle-jiao, and purging the fire in liver as well. For this reason , it is chiefly indicated for syndromes of excessive fire in the heart and stomach channels, diarrheadue to damp-heat and superficial suppurative infections caused by the noxious heat.
Effects: Clearing away heat, dampness, and fire, and detoxicating toxins.
Indications:
1. For treating the exopathogenic febrile diseases which are belonging to the type of excessive heat in the blood, manifested as dysphoria with high fever, coma and delirium, it is used in combination with rhinoceros horn and rehmannia root to clear heat from the blood, and the heart-heat and alleciate restlessness. In cases of excessive pathogenic fire manifested as dysphoria, insomnia, canker sores in the mouth, it is used in combination with cinnabar and rehmannia root known as Zhusha Anshen Wan (Cinnabar Sedative Bolus) to lessen palpitation and tranquilize the mind.
2. For treating the syndrome of excessive fire in the stomach, poor appetite, nausea, toothache due to stomach-fire, and polyorexia, it is used in combination with gypsum, bamboo shavings to clear the stomach-fire and arrest vomiting. In cases of damp-heat in large intestine, diarrhea with abdominal pain, tenesmus, it is used in combination with scutellaria root, aucklandia root and Chinese angelica root known as Shaoyao Tang (Decoction of Peony) to clear away heat, remove dampness, promote the Qj circulation.
3. For treating superficial suppurative infections, such as sores, carbuncles, furuncles and boils, septicemia induced by furunculosis, it is used in combination with forsythia fruit, dandelion herb and scutellaria root to clear away heat, remove dampness, promote the Qi circulation.
Furthermore, owing to the function of clearing the liver-fire, the preparation is also indicated for the stomach disease caused by liver-fire, hypochondriac pain, acid gurgitation, and conjunctival congestion caused by liver-heat.
Dosage and Administration: 2-10g. Use the preparation of stir-baked with ginger juice for arresting vomiting. The preparation of wine stir-baked is good at clearing away the noxious heat in the upper-jiao.
Precautions: This herb is extremely bitter and cold, therefore it should not be given in large amount or over a long period so as to avoid hurt of spleen and stomach. Because of the bitter and dryness properties, it is proper to be used in combination with the drugs for reinforcing Yin to treat the patients with extremely heat due to Yin deficiency.
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Dave6002
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Dave6002
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posted
I have been on 2x1g Coptis powder for 5 days now, seems working.
All my symptoms, especially uncomfortable stomach,lessened obviously.
For the first two days, I did have herx reaction. I am also on 2x1g of Cordyceps, and some tinctures of Red Root, Japanese knotweed and Smilax.
I stopped Artemisia annua, Cat's Claw and Artemether for a break.
Since it seems working (and fast compared to AbX) I'll keep on the regimen of 2x1g Coptis powder for a while and see what'll happen.
One of the major reason for taking Coptis is that Coptis has been one of best remedies for treating stomach illness and I thought I had chronical stomach infection from Lyme. Stomach uncomfortable has been the biggest problem for me.
So I am very glad that something is finally working for me.
The success strongthen my belief that herb medicine may be the key to the cure of Lyme disease, we just need more people to try out.
And good news is that you don't need a prescription, the toxicity is usually low, and many herbs have been used for many years. Plus they are cheap.
So I hope more people will try herbs, because the effectiveness of ABX is much less than expected, or not effective for treating chronical Lyme.
Happy recovery.
Dave
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Most of Zhang's herbs can be obtained elsewhere for cheaper. His allicin is over the counter in China and it's not really allicin its allitridi, a breakdown product of garlic that is actually stinkier than allicin. I would substitute Allimax or else Gigi's preferred form from biopure. Allitridi's spectrum of action is less powerful than allicin's.
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Dave6002
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quote: Allimax or else Gigi's preferred form from biopure
Are they in allicin form or just plain garlic capsules? Thanks
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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I am going to do some more research on coptis as I have so much stomach trouble. I did abx for almost a year but couldn't do orals anymore. The herbs are much easier on my stomach.
Keep us posted on coptis and the stomach issues. I read somewhere that MSM helps reduce acidity in the stomach without messing up the ph. I have found it to be helpful and finally got off prilosec.
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