Topic: Looking for some advice on TBD Feline treatments...
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Good morning all,
My cat of 9 years, Big Bad Bob (17.3 lbs) and I, need some advice from any of you who have treated your kitties for TBDs.
Let me give you a bit of history...
I lived on 12 acres that bordered the National Forest in Colorado for over 15 years. It was during this time that I acquired Bob. Of course, there was all manner of wildlife that roamed through our land...from porcupines to elk...you name it. And of course, I spent those 15 years picking ticks off of myself, my husband and my dog.
I was completely unaware of Tick borne diseases until I acquired a severe case of Colorado Tick Fever that sent me into the ER, and took a couple of weeks to get over. I was uneducated as to the other infections that ticks carried, and apparently so were the doctors at that time.
Fast forward several years...and my immune system finally crashed. I did my research and came across my answer to all of the odd and seemingly unrelated symptoms that I had been experiencing over the years. I ran across Doc B's list of symptoms by the grace of God, and I was experiencing 36 out of the typical 38, found a lyme friendly doc that week, and began my treatment.
The same week that I was finally diagnosed, my beloved Borzoi, succumbed to Lyme and company...and I had to put him down after he developed Congestive Heart Failure.
Now, 5 years later, it is just Bob and I who remain.
Those of you with pets will understand when I tell you that if you are close with your pet...you just know when something is not quite right with them. And now, I am convinced that Bob's immune system is giving out as well.
He has been to the vet so many times in the last year that I am beginning to feel like a Munchausen's Mom. Fortunately, the practice that we return to time and time again, love Bob as everyone who meets him does, and they are and have been trying their absolute best to tackle each problem with him as it arises.
About 3 weeks ago, Bob began acting not quite right...so I made another appointment with this practice. We had the full TBD panel run on him, did all the bloodwork necessary, etc. Everything came back clean. But being the persistent one that I am and with Divine Intervention, we met with a new Vet that was fresh out of school.
She listened to me for 2 hours as I explained our history, tick testing inaccuracies, and the benefits of trial treatments. She did actually agree with me, and now we are at the point where she is willing to do some trail treating. The only problem is now, I just am uncertain of what to try with him.
I am convinced that he is a Bart carrier for many reasons, and my last LLMD, was convinced that this is how I actually caught Bart, or at least upped my Bart load, as Bob has always been my constant companion in the yard and while gardening.
When we play now; and he of course is faster than I am...I sometimes get scratched unintentionally. When I do get scratched, the scratches immediately welt up, become angry red and burn and itch at the same time. The only thing I have found to relieve the pain is to immediately apply some pure Aloe Vera Gel to the injuries. This helps with the burn and itching...but the healing process is slow.
I recently have been around other cats that also scratched me while playing (told you I was a bit slow)... Anyway, what I witnessed with these scratches is that they do NOT welt up or become inflamed like the scratches from Bob do. So, I am convinced that he and I are only passing this disease back and forth to each other.
I have no clue what else he may be harboring as far as TBDs, but I have Lyme, Bart, Babs, and of course that old case of Colorado Tick Fever. This, of course is all that we know of with certainty.
So...the questions are...
How does one go about treating a cat for the various TBDs that he may or may not be carrying?
Is it the same sequence as for humans? Babs, Lyme, Bart, etc?
And what are the kitty meds that are used? Are they the same as human meds?
Yes, I know that a very good LL vet would know all of these answers...but remember, I am dealing with a fresh vet with no experience in this area.
I have loads of info for Canine treatment...but not so much for Feline.
Any and all help would be so very much appreciated.
Thank you in advance, Melanie
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Just Julie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1119
posted
hey Melanie, I have an outside only cat, "Fozzie" (came with his name -adopted him when my neighbor moved and left him behind
Anyway, while I am a dog person by birth, I have now been spending the last 4 yrs with Fozzie boy, and he's a whopper at 16 lbs. himself. I don't have the magic bullet answer for you as to what to try to treat Bob with, but I think in the deep recesses of my lyme brain, I recall that you live in Northern CA? If I'm right, I would then go on to assume you've heard of UC Davis? Our famed medical/animal research veterinary place in all of the world? I do believe I've heard tell that UC Davis can and does treat tick born stuff, not just in dogs, but cats as well.
I have made the trek to UC Davis a few times myself, but it was when I had my dogs (german shepherds) and way before lyme was on our horizon. I do recall the unbelievable (even back then in the late 80's) care and medical intervention that we experienced, and I would never hesitate to encourage an owner of any animal to make the trek up there (over there?) because you will find veterinarians who are unsurpassed in their knowledge, and they do pretty good with helping the people handle their animals illnesses too!
If you have any way whatsoever to get your Bob and yourself to Davis, I would by all means go for it. At 9, Bob sounds like he's got a few more cat lives left in him, and I would also be pretty hot on the detective trail with the way you've described his scratches on you, compared to other cats scratches, that do not give you the same reaction!
My heart goes out to you, I'm quite the animal lover/person, and I think we get these wonderful furry babies for a reason . . . Chin scratches to Bob, and I so hope you find a way through his lyme jungle! Julie
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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trueblue
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Member # 7348
posted
Melanie,
I googled feline bartonella treatment and this is an excerpt from the second article that came up:
Previous Bartonella therapeutic trials were unsuccessful in humans and cats;42-44 however, recent studies have shown that long-term antibiotic therapy with azithromycin, doxycycline, and rifampin have eradicated infections in both species.45-48
AntiBartonella therapy of infected cats consists of azithromycin (10 mg/kg body weight, per os [PO] given once daily for 21 days).46-48 Alternatively, doxycycline (10 mg/kg body weight, PO every 12 hours for 6 weeks) or rifampin (10 mg/kg body weight, PO once daily for 21 days) can be used.
Possible adverse reactions include azithromycinintractable vomiting or diarrhea and doxycycline-induced esophageal strictures if the capsule lodges in the esophagus; this can be avoided with the administration of water following administration of the doxycycline capsules.
For Bart, anyway, it sounds like the treatment is very much the same as humans, except smaller doses.
I'm sorry Bob isn't feeling well either. I'll look for some more stuff in a little while if you think I can be of any help. (need to crash for a bit)
Hugs to you both
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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trueblue
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That one's got a bunch of feline disease articles. There is one about Bart and Zithro in there.
I hope it helps.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I don't have an answer on thias one for you, however, just wanted to say thank you for the wonderful post on my thread with helping us on the loss of our cat.
Good luck with an answer for you and Bob.
Posts: 719 | From Delaware | Registered: Jan 2006
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Jill E.
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Member # 9121
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Hi Melanie,
I contracted Lyme, Bart, Ehrlichia, etc. while feeding a cat whose owner had moved. I didn't realize the cat had ticks. Prior to getting Lyme I was a volunteer for a cat rescue and adoption group so I'm quite the kitty lover.
Here's the irony. I have Bart and am having terrible symptoms. But I am unable to use Levaquin or Rifampin right now. So we are considering using Zith to try to at least quiet down my severe central nervous system problems - because Zith is used in cats for Bart.
I feel like I should join your kitty and see a vet!
I haven't started the Zith yet so I can't speak to the effectiveness, but I am just confirming that its usage is drawn from the veterinary world.
Hope your furbaby does well.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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A few years ago I had a cat who had feline leukemia. I did a lot of research online and found out about a medicine (I guess that's what it is) that will actually put Feline Leukemia into remission because it boosts the immune system of the animal.
It is called ImmunoRegulin. If you do a search you will find a lot of information on it in regards to F.L. and boosting the immune system.
I'm wondering if this product could be used to boost your kitty's immune system just like we humans try to do with lyme disease.
Anyway, I have no idea whether it would work for that and you may want to do more research and talk to those who have tried it.
My vet did order it for me but our cat also had cancerous tumors and he told me it probably wouldn't work because of the tumors which I had also read online.
The cat didn't survive but if I ever have a cat with F.L. I sure would know what to use.
lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4622
posted
So sorry to hear about Bob, Miss Mel.
I only have to offer: my kitty with the mystery illness contracted after a tick bite recovered nicely after 3 1/2 months on Clavamox. She's only 8lbs (up from 6 during illness), and was on 7cc's a day.
For treating those cat scratch's - use clove oil. It will burn like heck, but reduce the swelling immediately and kill all bacteria/viruses/fungi it comes in contact with. If you don't have a local source, I suggest www.youngliving.com - a product called Thieves Oil.
I too wonder if I picked up Bart from one of my cats - I've had them all tested, and of course the tests are negative - but just in case I use thieves oil on any scratches.
Praying for a miracle.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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sizzled
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Although cats are not documented as well in the dx and tx of TBDs, they do get them.
I am sorry I don't have direct contact as he is VERY hard to reach since he is extremely busy.
Might there be something in his abstracts that could help Bob?
I am trying to find the vet here who treated many kittens (successfully) with an abx for Bart.
Posts: 4258 | From over there | Registered: Jul 2001
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My youngest fur son had Big Bad Bob beat; he's 27 pounds. He came here as a two pound starving stray. He's made up for that hungry period.
The scratches sound like an allergic reaction. Does his kitty litter have fragrance? Does it have some kind of additive that you are allergic to? Anything that touches his paws could be causing an allergic reaction when you get scratched. I do understand about the scratches. Fin, my youngest, licks me and then nibbles on my hand. My Gma used to say that he was "tenderizing" his snack. He sometimes leaves little marks. I don't care what any of them do; they give me so much.
What are Bob's symptoms? Just wondering if I might know anything. I do have lots of links on my old computer, but it had a meltdown and doesn't work well. I think that Tuft's University has good info. I'll see if I can retrieve some links tomorrow.
I hope Bob is up and running soon. Wait, I'm talking about a cat. I hope he is sleeping and eating like his old self soon - none of this up and running thing.
Kitty kisses, 3ktykatz
-------------------- 3ktykatz + 1 new kitten Posts: 24 | From Alabama | Registered: Jul 2006
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Marnie
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
posted
Thanks so much to each of you for your replies and great information!
A little about what Bob has been through just in the last year...
First, he has always been an indoor/outdoor kitty...completely house trained. Since moving here, we kept with that routine until he got a bad case of fleas.
I had never dealt with fleas before, well, because we simply did not have that problem in Colorado! So, I immediately went down to the local pet store and bought some topical flea stuff.
A few days later, Bob completely disappeared for about 10 days. My heart was broken. I even made flyers for my lost kitty, but he did return...very hungry and with even more fleas than before.
This time I did my homework, and took him into the vet for some Advantage flea control. We were extremely diligent about flea combing and flea cleaning with sheets all through the house so that I could catch the little suckers, shake their little dead bodies outside and then wash the sheets in very hot water.
With the fleas...came the worms! Very gross indeed. Again, I did my research, and had his vet prescribe the worm meds. The sheets stayed put this entire time to now catch not only the dying fleas, but the gross little sesame seed worms.
We continued with the twice daily flea combing...and I thought we were getting a pretty good handle on the pestilence control after a few weeks.
It was at this time that Bob (a major alpha) decided to get into a fight with some unknown critter outside, and came home with a large wound on his front shoulder. By the time I got him back into the vet...the wound had already abscessed...and Bob spent a few days in the vet hospital, underwent surgery, and had a stint placed. A few weeks later, he had the stint removed.
One day I came home from work, and Bob was lying on my bed on one of the sheets...when he got up to greet me, I saw something black where he had been lying. Thinking it was just another dead flea...I bent down to pick it up...and it moved!
Yes...that is right...it was a tiny nymph tick! From then on...Bob became an indoor kitty only! It was a slow adjustment for both of us...but I knew it would be the best solution for the both of us in the long run.
He has always been great with a litter pan. Even though he rarely needed to use one with me., but now that he was indoors only...things changed a bit.
We did manage to get the fleas under control, and the worms, and no more ticks! BUT, by now Bob was doing this scratching his neck and head thing that didn't make any sense to me or to his vets!
He was tested for all possible causes...no ringworm, no fleas, no yeast, not even tears to the skin...but he was still scratching and losing hair around his ears too.
Shortly there after Bob developed a UA obstruction! He rarely meows, but woke me up screaming in the middle of the night! I rushed him back into the vet as soon as they opened, and that was when I learned all about male cats and UA problems usually stemming from food containing fish products.
So, poor Bob was put back into the hospital for 4 days while they fixed him up from the blockage. When he was allowed to come home, we started him on a strict Hill's c/d diet...nothing else to eat, period!
Fortunately, he liked the food...and has been on that ever since.
Back to the scratching...this has not gone away at all. So, it was back to the vet again for some answers. Couldn't be the diet, wasn't anything else obvious as we had already tested him for all culprits. BUT, could be the litter! The vet gave me a little Benedryl to try with him...and it actually worked for a couple of days...but turned him into a zombie...and on the third day he started scratching again, but in slow motion.
He has now been through 4 different types of litter. All non clay. The only type left to try would be the pearls with absolutely no fragrance or crystals to control odor.
We could also try an elimination diet with him...but the last vet was perplexed as to what to try to eliminate from the strict diet that he is already on.
Soooo... Besides the odd scratching thing, he has been very lethargic, is eating less, is gassy, sleeping more, and just not quite himself.
I do realize that he has been through allot this past year, and the stress of that alone could be playing a huge role in his disposition now...but he gets all of my attention...that has not changed. I play with him, brush him, and generally he is right by my side for most of the day and night.
I also realize being the sensitive and healing cat that he is...that he could also have been picking up on MY stress, but that has dramatically decreased now.
He also has several windowsills to sit on and look out over the trees to watch the birds and squirrels, and other various things as they fly by. And the fish entertain him at times too.
He does have his periods of scampering around...but seems to tire out very quickly. So, in other words, there really aren't the obvious signs and symptoms of TBDs with him...but I know that it would be nearly a miracle IF he did not catch any of them given his history in the past and present.
Sorry, this is so long...but I think that sometimes it helps to give a complete picture in order to trigger a new idea.
Julie, Yes, I am in Northern CA. Yes, I know of UC Davis, well actually the hospital too well. Thank you for the information re: the vet work there, I will look into it. Love to Fozzie!
Bluebird, Thank you so much for looking for information for us...I will take it all to his vet as a guide. I so appreciate your help with everything. I too have been trying to look at all possible culprits, so the more info the better.
Iceskater, My heart was broken to know of your recent loss. I do hope your Mom will be able to begin healing soon. It all just takes so much time...I know.
Jill, I so admire your good work for our animal family! Zith will indeed help with Bart, ask too about adding in Mino, or Septra, OK? Good luck to you and thanks!
Karatelady, I do think your idea of boosting the immune system while treating is very valid. Thank you for sharing your information...and I am so sorry about your kitty.
LIH, You know it warms my heart each time I hear you say that your kitty is now doing better! Thank you for the med suggestion and for the clove oil suggestion too!
Mizz Sizz, Thank you for the link to Dr. Schoen. I have actually read his thoughts before on animal TBDs...and do agree with him whole-heartedly! Unfortunately, he doesn't really spell out his protocol, but his article may be another good one to pass on to my new vet so thank you for reminding me of that!
KtyKatz, 27 ponds? Goodness, that is a Big Boy indeed...is he a Main Coon by chance? I had not thought about ME being allergic to his litter, but that is a really interesting idea! I would so appreciate any info you can dig up for us- thank you!
Marnie, Thank you so much for the antioxidant links...I will go through them thoroughly today.
Thanks again to each of you! Much love, M
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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My cat has been my constant companion through all my lyme trials and I could not have made it without her!
Just wanted to suggest that if your cat starts on abx, he will feel the effects the same as we do...a herx!
If there is a question about the lyme dx, I would suggest a test for brucellosis would be in order. Ticks are believed to carry this as well and elk are known to be infected where you live.
My Tibby sends a friendly meow!
All the best.......
-------------------- nan Posts: 2135 | From Tick Country | Registered: Oct 2000
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sizzled
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Member # 1357
posted
If Bob has urinary stones and needs to stay on an acidic diet, I use Friskies Special Diet (comes in five flavors and is ALOT cheaper than the Hills C/D) WITH a capsule of POLYPOROUS (a chinese herb). The POLYPOROUS saved our feral kitty's life and he is now an old kitty after 14 years!
The POLYPOROUS can be orfered from Dr. Schoen or you can try your vet?
Hope this helps.
As for the scratching and hair loss....hmmm...after the Advantix tx???? Or did he have this problem before the flea tx???
Could it be left over from the flea tx??? A reaction???
Ever give a cat a bath????
Does he have ear mites???
Posts: 4258 | From over there | Registered: Jul 2001
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
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Ms. Melanie said..
"She listened to me for 2 hours as I explained our history, tick testing inaccuracies, and the benefits of trial treatments." ...
AND...
"She did actually agree with me.."
You mean it only took TWO hours to get her to agree?
And she didn't figure out she could have saved herself at least an hour of that time by agreeing MUCH sooner!
You may have to type that in. I'm not sure how to post a long link here.
Anyway, this is a link to a personal website, but she has so many links to different medical sites. You probably couldn't find a better place on the web for info.
This should link you to Lyme Disease. Even if you don't find exactly what you need as a direct link, you can look around in the many health sites she links to. It really is amazing how much info she has gathered.
Talk to you later!
Kitty kisses, 3ktykatz
-------------------- 3ktykatz + 1 new kitten Posts: 24 | From Alabama | Registered: Jul 2006
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
posted
I am so appreciative for all of your help and support!
I will be speaking with the vet today hopefully. Bob is not doing so great...threw up this morning, and was sleeping most of the day yesterday in weird places.
I have been trying to do the research that you have provided to be able to hand stuff over to the vet...but I am also trying to put out a few other fires too...so...it is taking me longer than I thought.
Nan- I too was concerned about him herxing...it is so difficult when they just can't tell you how they feel! Bob has been through my entire TBD ordeal as well, so I do understand how you must love Tibby! I will add brucellosis to the growing list, thanks for that insight.
Mizz Sizz- Yes, I think Bob's food bills and vet bills have surpassed my own But, though a problem child, he is MY problem child...and I would do anything to get him better. Thank you SO much for the diet suggestions!!! I will run that by the vet for approval.
It is difficult to know what actually started the scratching behavior...the fleas perhaps? It just never ended even when the fleas were gone. We have checked him for mites too- negative. The scratching is basically all around his head area...face, neck, ears, etc. Those are the only areas. No, he has never had a bath...but does love to jump into the shower after my bath...I will add that thought to speak with the vet about. THANK YOU!
Moon-Pie- back to you. Hoping your journey is safe and productive.
Ktykatz- Thank you for taking the time to find additional information. My best to you on the stress test!
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
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Good evening all,
Well, I spent 5 hours this morning researching all of the great information that you provided...THANK YOU all so very much!
Another hour long conversation with Bob's vet this afternoon decided that we will go ahead and do a trial treatment with Doxy 50mg, and just see what happens.
Did you know that 50mg Doxy tablets are a hot commodity? Costco wanted over $100 to fill that Rx, and I couldn't use my insurance, because it wasn't for me! However, the 50mg capsules (horsepills) were only $15. AND, they had the nerve to tell me that I could simply pour it out over his food...BAD, BAD idea.
A vet tech also suggested that we simply cut the 100mg tabs that they had in half...also a BAD idea. Don't these people have to learn anything about meds before handing them out? So frustrating to know they are passing on this information to one and all.
Crushing Doxy into whip cream was actually what sent my Borzoi into Congestive Heart Failure!
IF, for some reason you are not yet aware of this danger...please do your homework! Doxy is very caustic...and can burn the esophageal lining even uncut!
So, I am going to try and shop around for a better deal on the tablets so I can use the little pill pocket treats to give them to Bob. If you don't yet know about these...HA! I have good news for all your pets who hate to swallow pills...
They are little treats, with the consistency of cookie dough, already with a hole in the center to place the pill! The animal scarfs them down before they even realize it is loaded with meds.
I also spent another hour on the phone with a researcher who is doing a study on cats and owners with Bart. He was at the lab where Bob's bart blood was sent to, and it was negative via Western Blot. So, of course, by his reasoning, Bob does not have Bart. I had much to say about that...so we had quite the conversation.
He did finally admit that there is a minute possibility that Bob may have Bart...but it was very forced at best.
BTW, his take on my scratch reactions to Bob and not other cats? I must be allergic to Bob. Hmmm.
So, what I am asking now...is IF any of you can put your hands on any abstracts or articles that explain a negative WB for Bart still having the possibility of being a false negative (positive)...I would SO appreciate it!!!
Thank you all for the wonderful help, and thanks in advance for any continued help you may be able to offer.
Melanie
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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northstar
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Member # 7911
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I will look for a scientific support, but this is anecdotal.
I was bart negative on test. One year later, I had bart symptoms from 2 different microcurrent sources which were running bart frequencies, plus had minimally 4 separate instances of shinbone pain and sole/arch pain, plus skin stuff.
I will look for "real" research next !
(edit: I just googled
reliability western blot bartonella
and got lots of hits, some pdf's, etc.
Best wishes for speedy healing for your Bob.
Allergic? Only to the scratch, and not to dander, licks, etc? hmmm. The vet is really grasping for straws! But you do have abx for him. Northstar
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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Jill E.
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Hi Melanie,
Like Northstar, this is only personal anecdotal stuff, but I, too, had Bart symptoms but my IGeneX test did not turn positive until AFTER I started the quinolones.
And now my Bart symptoms are worse because I had to stop treatment early.
So perhaps like some of us humans, our furry friends may not turn positive until the antibiotics force the disease to react.
Thank you for keeping us posted - and please continue to do so as your time permits.
Big hugs to Big Bob!!
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
posted
Thanks you guys.
Yes, it took me three tries to get a positive Bart test...but that was only after knocking down lyme for 7 months before the third test.
My last Bart test was negative, yet I still have many Bart symptoms...I tell ya...we just have to educate all the time!
Yes, I thought it funny also that the "allergic" comment would only apply to scratches. AND, get this... the lab guy admitted that this has happened to him as well with different cats! But did his "allergic" cat have Bart...NOPE!
OK, I have worn myself out for the day...thank you again, and I will start fresh in the morning with more research.
Much love, M
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Truthfinder
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Hi, Melanie -
This isn't about Bart, but about a dx for Lyme -
I'm not entirely sure I trust the ``tick panel'' antibody tests for dogs or cats.
If you are interested, Bowen now tests cats and dogs for Lyme! (No antibody tests to wonder about.)
I contacted them, and at least for dogs, the cost is $150.00 - just like for humans - so I am assuming that cats would be the same. Your vet would have to order the test kit, but contact Bowen if you have other questions. Some new information on their Lyme Disease page indicates that the Q-RIBb test might actually detect ``cyst'' forms of Bb, as well as the L-form. I found that VERY interesting.
If/when you go to the Bowen site, PLEASE ignore the terrible errors, typos, etc. on the Lyme Disease page - it reads like somebody with Lyme wrote it! I have been in contact with Bowen about this, and they say that the have been without a computer system for several weeks, are still working on things, etc. There have been a lot of changes at Bowen since the first of this year.
FYI, Bowen isn't even offering the Babesia test right now as they are re-vamping the test. (And not sure they offer Babesia tests for pets, anyway, and not sure how accurate the Bowen Babesia tests have been anyway...)
I wish you the best. I am going through similar confusion with both my cat and dog right now........
Do you miss Colorado?
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Truthfinder
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-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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This doctor explains that some worry about false positive testing and claims he has never seen this.
He is more concerned about false negative testing.
"False negative test results, on the other hand, are a much bigger problem, in my experience. Negative Western blots convert to positive in 18 to 24 percent of cases, if four weeks of antibiotics are given, and then the patients go off antibiotics for 10 to 14 days before the repeat Western blots are done. In other words, a false negative Western blot converts to positive in about one out of five borreliosis patients. This is a much greater problem than a false positive rate of only three percent.
Coinfection testing may depend upon where you live on planet earth. I talked to one medical doctor from New England that was concerned about getting too many positive test results for bartonellosis (cat scratch disease). This physician was concerned about false positives. Yet I have not had a single positive yet." (I wonder if this last sentence should read "false" positives yet?)
This is a place where you can get testing done. Might be of interest to you!
-------------------- nan Posts: 2135 | From Tick Country | Registered: Oct 2000
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Good evening Tracy, I only miss Colorado at times...like now when the colors are changing. I DO miss my friends there though! I hope you are finding the support you need there? Thank so much for the testing information.
I did have Bob tested, just to please the vet mainly, and to make sure that we were not dealing with any other obvious problem. BUT, I am not wanting to test further, knowing what I do about testing inaccuracies. (and expenses)
Actually my very first positive was through Bowen, so I do think they offer a very valuable service.
So very sorry that your pets are not doing so well.
Thanks Nan, I know there are many test abstracts and opinions out there, and when I can make the time to do so, I will try to pull them all together to add to the Borris Files. I so appreciate the added information.
I also am in the process of trying to organize my own medical stuff, and happened onto the Igenex explanation for Bart testing, so I will include that information too.
Now that I have had a few days to think about the treatment plan for Bob... Doesn't a starting dose of 50mg of Doxy seem like a whopper of a dose for a 17 pound cat?
He acts like he feels so cruddy already; I would hate to overdo this and send him into herxville!
Any feedback on this dosage?
Thanks in advance, Melanie
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Last year at just around this time my friend and I adopted brothers who had been left in a parking lot and were dumpster diving. They are probably about 1 1/2 years old now. Yellow tabbies. Anyway - mine, Buddy, became ill not long after I got him: vomiting, lethargy, loss of appetite. Brought him to the vet -- a guy I like and who really likes cats -- and he suspected Bartonella. (I don't remember if Buddy had a fever, I'd have to look back, but seems to me he did, though not a high one.)
He isolated Buddy from the other cats and kept him there overnight, doing bloodwork. The Bart test came back positive and I was horrified. (Apparently there are 4 levels and Buddy tested at 3...??) Anyway, treatment was Zithromax ($$) for a couple of weeks. (Pill "shooters" work well, by the way.) Buddy got better and so far so good! I'm still not sure exactly which symptom caused my vet to suspect the Bart, but anyway, I did of course ask my LLMD if I should be concerned about my own health.
He told me that the Bart -- Cat Scratch Disease -- found in kitties is a different strain than the one that makes us humans ill. I shouldn't worry about catching it from him even if he scratched me. However, I should minimize the scratching if I could because it's just not good for someone with a depressed immune system such as I.
Buddy's brother Ginger became sickish after that, and my friend took him to her vet and asked that he be tested. He showed a "1" out of 4, enough for treatment with abx, and he also showed a bladder infection and lots of problems with his urine that the vet recommended some sort of special diet. Anyway Ginger's doing good now.
Ginger is and indoor/outdoor cat; Buddy is a strictly indoor, as they speed up and down my road. For some reason he still gets fleas and I do treat him with Advantage. Anyway, my last cat, my beautiful Beau that was hit and killed, was indoor/outdoor and very frequently brought me deer ticks. I used the flea and tick control products on him and hoped for the best for myself -- was as vigilent as I could be -- who needs reinfection? But Beau was so important to me that I didn't make him stay indoors -- he worshipped the outdoors (we live in the country). Of course this shortened his life...but anyway, maybe Bob's depressed now that he has had to become an indoor cat?
I'm sure there was something else I wanted to tell you -- or ask -- but can't remember it now. Anyway, keep us posted and good luck.
Posts: 459 | From Connecticut - just across the river from the Lymes (Old Lyme, Hadlyme, East Lyme, South Lyme & Lyme) | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Okay, I remember what else I was going to say. I am VERY allergic to any cat scratch and get itchy welts if I don't take care of them right away. I wash the area well with soap and water and then use lots of hydrogen peroxide. This usually takes care of them, if not, I use a little antibacterial ointment (Neosporin with the anesthetic is pretty good).
Posts: 459 | From Connecticut - just across the river from the Lymes (Old Lyme, Hadlyme, East Lyme, South Lyme & Lyme) | Registered: Oct 2000
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Sorry to hear about Big Bad Bob. I have an 18 lb. cat named 'Fred'. He came with his name. We suspect that he was two when we adopted although we do not know for sure. He was my first pet of my own when I got out of college. We have been together a month longer then my husband and myself...since 1992.
We call 'Fred' our 'Cog' because is like a dog in cat clothing. If you call him, he will come to you and at one point he would retrieve his cloth mouse...didn't last long.
He was 24 lbs. when we got him.
He has lived as an indoor/outdoor cat in the past in lyme endemic areas but now is soley an indoor cat and has been for years. I do suspect he may have a soup of tick borne illness although he has never been ill outwardly.
Recently we had him tested for diabetes and he came up positive. His blood sugar was in the 800's which is very high. We have him on insulin now twice a day and it is amazing how much better he is feeling. Even his cloudy eyes are clearing up.
His symptoms were his constant ravenous appetite, when he used his litter box it was like the Atlantic Ocean when he got out, lethargy, and I guess that is it.
We did a fasting blood test and I suggest if you decide to testing him to cover the bases be sure that you leave him at the vet for the day so that any anxiety he may have with the car ride is over when they test him.
Our vet has been great and has demanded in the first four weeks that we have had him on insulin that we take him back to have his sugars tested so we know that we have the right levels.
Just thought I would share our story. We have also been feeding him a Diabetes mainteanance food.
Take care and hope you get to the bottom of Bob's issue. Fred has been such a confident, friend, my baby for so long. I really can't imagine my life without him. ;0)
Posts: 655 | From NC, Exit 88 on the Deer SuperHighway | Registered: Dec 2004
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Good afternoon all,
For those who have been asking recently and for those who helped me so much in this post...
I just wanted to give you an update on Bob!
Today is day 8 of his current treatment plan...Doxy 25mg a day. I was a very hesitant to start him on the med, and also very watchful over him once he did start.
For the first few days, he was really not feeling too great at all. You can just tell, ya know? He was lethargic, not eating, sleeping in weird places, and having a difficult time with a bout of diarrhea.
I hated to keep treating him...but kept reminding myself of MY first encounter with Doxy, and just held out faith that eventually...he would get past this initial blood level herx. He spent most of the first week in Zombie-ville...but still managed to come and rest his head on my chest each night as I retired for the day.
Well, by the seventh day, let me tell you... I awoke to the sound of him scampering all around the house! Running and jumping from bed to couch to windowsill!!!
He was attacking all of his toys strewn about with gusto! Eating more than usual, drinking more than usual...and just acting more like the love that I knew was hiding in there somewhere!
I haven't seen him this perky in over a year...so, I am more than pleased I am ELATED actually.
He is still quite sleepy during the day from the med. But is now at least responding to my cooing over him with a simple wag of his little stump tail...and he once more seeks me out to lay at my feet wherever I plant myself for a few hours.
So, to all of you animal lovers... I thank you for your help, your encouragement, and your well wishes. I am now optimistic about a return to health for my boy.
I know this will be a long term thing for him, so as to catch as much disease as we can. But this sign of such a quick improvement is such a relief to me...and offers me hope that he AND I can beat this together.
Much love and gratitude, Melanie
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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sizzled
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1357
posted
Thank-you for your update on Bob, Melanie!!!
You gave me a much-needed smile!
Kitty-chin-rub for Bob and a big HUG for you, M!!! Posts: 4258 | From over there | Registered: Jul 2001
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
Scampering, strewing toys, acting all Bob-like.
I'm so glad it's helping. Yay!
Hugs to you and the furry little fellow.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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