AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Does anyone know if you can get an infection or anything if you lose a cap off a root canal?
I'm wondering whether or not I can get away with putting off a trip to the dentist.
I was bit by a dentist as a child and still do not like going there.
Thanks for any input!
Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
Dear Ali-
As if your plate wasn't already full!
I definitely second going to dentist ASAP. I share your dread of dentists - goes back to a childhood horror too, but I've learned the hard hard way that delaying dental work like that will only cost you more in the long run, PLUS affect your health.
Plus, dentists usually have payment plans,and as long as you'e paying something every month, i've found dentists are pretty accomodating that way. Maybe they need to be, 'cause they are SO expensive and most dental plans stink, even if you're lucky enough to have one.
Dilly, your MIA Malarone buddy
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Thanks Cave!
I do have the cap, but I think part of the remaining tooth that supported it has disintegrated.
I'm actually afraid (embarassed) to go to the dentist because I know my teeth are not in good shape. I have some cavities close to the gum line and I fear having to lose those teeth as well.
I have no dental insurance and have so many other expenses that I don't want to add even more to if I can avoid it.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Thanks for the info Dilly!
I guess maybe I'll try to see if I can find one with a payment plan.
It's so hard to think about dragging myself off for voluntary torture right now.
BTW, I finished my 21 days of Mepron yesterday (or the day before? apparently it didn't help my memory). I'm feeling a little more human now, less like some PMS-crazed, rabid animal.
I read somewhere on here that the usual Tx is 21 days on & 7-8 days off. I really hope LLMD is not going to make me do it again. If he does, I may have to just lock myself in my room for the course.
I hope all is well with you. You seem to be keeping yourself quite busy. Good luck with your latest venture!
Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Another question:
Does anyone know how you would tell if there was infection up in there?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hey Ali
I know this sounds crazy but Bondo-can be used to fix your teeth--Im serious--
If you do it right it will last for many months before having to be redone-
Bondo is cheap -easy to form -strong- and easy to find--
If you want pm me and I will give you instructions--Jay--
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
quote:Originally posted by cave76:
I wouldn't take the chance of an infection so near the brain!!! I hope that scares you enough to do something.
You mean it could get worse?
Seriously - Thanks, Cave!
Jay,
Thank you, too. I think I'd be afraid to plug it up, not knowing if I might trap bacteria up in there. It's quite a crater in a back molar.
I was actually hoping someone might tell me I didn't have to worry about it, but I guess that's not going to happen.
Thanks, again! Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
first off i am sorry you were bite by a dentist as a child, i hope it wasn't me that bit you.i only bite the pretty woman not children. lol.
now for your dilemma. you must face the fact that your teeth will not get better on their own. they can only get worse, start hurting and cause you more pain and anguise than you need.
dentist have now moved to the nineteenth century we have real fast drills and nitrous oxide. the needle are paper thin, coated with silicone and can barely feel if given correctly.
the simpilist way to test a tooth for infection is the three stooges method of dentistry. if you tap on the tooth, or put a small piece of round wood, like chop stick on the tooth then bite down.
if you see stars, bad infection. if you see dentists ,bad infection. if it doesn't hurt, then it probably not infected.
it is imporant to get the crown retrofitted or even replaced because the tooth beneath will eventually crack and need to be removed.
your other teeth should be evaluated and if necessary fillings can be placed. the bigger the cavity gets the harder it is to fill.
now for my houdini trick, you must stop chewing gum, drinking losts of soda or sucking on candies. all of these will cause gum line cavities. if you are on any antidepressants, quinine, or some abx, cause dry mouth and this also causes gum line cavities.
you may email me for the protocol for going to the dentist for lyme disease. most dentists don't no zip about lyme disease.
if you want i can post the protocol.
your very mean dentist docdave Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
sorry about the last jokes.
do you have dry mouth, eyes, skin? if so you should take artificial saliva, restasis for eyes and ? for skin.
this is common in autoimmune diseases and is a major source of problems unknown to most dentists.
if not from lyme then many of the meds given to lymies cause these three gland systems to shut down.
these type of drugs are called antcholinergic and cause many symtoms.
dry mouth causes gum line cavities, strept, and overinfection of yeast. dry eyes can cause scratched cornea and other disease processes. dry skin (limited sweating) can cause moajor problems with temperature regulation. without sweatiing your body can't cool itself hense you can get overheated very rapidly ,within minutes, and temps can \ reach to 103 to 106 and can cause major problems.
must have these checked first prior to getting any dental work. the dental work won't work if the cause of the problem is not removed prior to tretment.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Sorry DocDave,
I saw a reply from a dentist. I ran around in a circle, had a panic attack and passed out on the floor.
Only kidding, I know you wouldn't bite me 'cause I'm a mess! Seriously though, I was called away by my maternal responsibilities.
Thanks so much for all the great input and reassurance! No need for apologies, I can take a joke (usually).
I finally got over my fear of the novacaine needle, by trying to endure a root canal without one. I'm still not a big fan.
As for the nitrous oxide, it freaks me out. I feel like my body is spinning around my head, but my head is staying still.
Another problem I have is that it's very difficult for me to keep my mouth open very wide, as it causes severe pain after a short time. I've actually thought about trying to find a dentist with small hands for this reason.
I have had the "dries" for quite a long time. Unfortunately, I realized my tendance to "squirrel" hard candies & gum after the damage was done. Can sugar-free gum cause problems too? I had switched to strictly s-f, but "whitening" gum may be bad?
I also found that my tendency to clench my teeth while sleeping, screws up new fillings.
I feel like my poor teeth didn't and never will stand a chance. I'm really afraid that if I go, they'll want to yank them all out of my mouth. I've had two molars pulled already.
Protocol? PROTOCOL?! You mean I need another protocol to follow for going to the dentist, too? YIKES!!!!!!!!!!
(Sorry, momentary loss of sanity)
I would really appreciate any further information you are willing to share with me, since it has become apparent that a dental visit is unavoidable.
BTW, I don't hate dentists, I just hate pain. I realize it's not their fault and I always feel sorry for them when they do work in my mouth. I think that's another reason I wait too long. I find it very embarassing to walk in with such a mess, expecting them to fix it.
From what I understand, just being a dentist can be very emotionally taxing. I can't even imagine the double-whammy of having TBDs to boot. You poor man, what you must have been through. I'm glad you still have a sense of humor!
I wonder if the dentist that bit me had TBDs or something. (LOL)
I really do appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me. I remember DocDave130, but I don't remember the rest to e-mail you. I know you've probably posted it a zillion times. If you'd like to post the protocol here or pm me. I'd be very grateful!
Thanks again,
Ali
PS - Where do I find "artificial saliva" and what should I look for?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
Hi again Ali-
Looks like you're getting wonderful responses, yay!
I just want to add that years ago I had a root canal done and NEVER had a crown put on. I was in grad school, didn't have an extra pennuy, and had already humiliated myself my having to borrow the money from parents to do the root canal.
Ah, the pain is gone, I thought, so I'll just worry about a crown another day. Yeah right.
Well, after a year or so, all the expense for a root canal went down the drain because that tooth fell apart. Then I was REALLY embarassed, and REALLY REALLY didn't want ot go to the dentist, so I didn't. So then more time passed and my teeth started moving around and my early periodontal disease became more pronounced-- think bleedign gums all the time, and then I thought, there is no way I can explain myself to a dentist, so i'm not going to go. So there. Oh yeah, and I convinced myself that it was goign to be SOO expensive taht we couldn't possbily afford it.
Then I started googling fun words like "dentures" and pull whole set of teeth out.." My husband caught me doing that search obsessively one night, and oh yeah, he MADE me go to the dentist.
I actually blushed (I'm 46, OK?) while talking to the dentist, and I asked- wouldn't it just be easier to pull them out? He LAUGHED. He sees folks like us ALL THE TIME, ALI!! We are not unusual!!
Not to mention, the total amount he charged me over the next 1/2 year for everything that needed to be done (besides braces, yeah right)which was a LOT- was less than $1,500.
Nothing like the tens of thousands of dollars i'd somehow convinced myself it would be.. And it felt incredibly liberating to ditch all the fear, fix the problems, and move on..
So hear hear for going to the dentist!!
Lots of hugs, and a smile that is very real, even if all my teeth aren't- Dilly Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
well if nitrous isn't for you we have a new drug called Valium, hot of the press can even get it generic. 5-10 mg 1 hour before apoointment and you would care if he bites you. must bring somebody to drive you home because the cops don't like drug addicts.
ah yes the dental protocol,
it really depends on what stage of lyme you have and the amount of immune system you have left. if you have any decrease in your immune system, you should first tell the dentist, if he doesn't care , then find another that does. gheap good dental care can be found at dental schools, and large hospitals that have residents or specialty training programs.
for safety sake , i would reccommend 1day before and two days after of clindamycin 150mg three times a day. if mitral valve prolapse or any titanium implant then i would use the same protocol, even though the american heart assoiciation only recommends one dose 1 hour before appt. i would explain to the dentist that you are more vunerable to passing bacteria from the mouth the other more vunerble areas of the body.
you will not find this protocol listed anywhere. it was the protocol i used in my offices when i had an immunocompromised patient. i also used this on normal patients that needed root canals. clindamycin has an affinity for bone and also the mouth, so it helps clear infection prior to working in the mouth, and spreading an infection.
also dentist from the 20th century now have whats called bite blocks. these are pieces of hard rubber or silicone that you can bite on, instead of a bullet, to keep your mouth open and from getting tmj stiffness after the procedure. the pre apointment valium,xanax, clonipam, will also work as a muscle relaxant to relax the buccinator and massetor muscles.
so get stoned, get abx, get blocked, get filled.(white composite fillings only no mercury filling, ok GiGi.
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
As for dry mouth i use these new products from sensodyne OASIS MOISUTURIZING MOUTHWASH. OASIS SPRAY. SENSODYNE TOOTH PASTE.
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
As for dry mouth i use these new products from sensodyne OASIS MOISUTURIZING MOUTHWASH. OASIS SPRAY. SENSODYNE TOOTH PASTE. go the sensodyne.com and get a coupon for it.
Lots of water, i use the sugar free cabonated favored drinks from wal-mart or target. these are 50 -60 cents per quart bottle. bottled sugar free uncarbonated is ok also, Nestle's brand taste best at Costco or BJ's
Suger free candies must read labels. sugar free gum with xylitol should be ok. xylitol is anti-cavity. xylitol candies should be ok xylitol mints should also be ok
dry mouth sucks, sorry didn't mean that.lol
must not keep anything in mouth for long period or long exposure for the teeth. this means gooy stuff like peanut butter and raisins need to be rinsed off after eating. anything left on the teeth after 20 min will start the decaying process to begin.
no no's no chewing normal gum\ no sipping a soda for an hour, drink it within ten minutes. no gummy bears. and especially no gummy worms. hard candies sugar free should still be moved around the mouth, and not kept in one place in the cheek, same with mints.
like without saliva, ain't it great. just a little DRY HUMOR. LOL
docdave130
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
.......and no root canals if you want to stay healthy and if you want to get rid of all microbial infections.
Root canals are second worse; then come the cavitations that are caused by root canals.
Root canals deliver the most lethal toxin - worse than mercury - in the form of thioethers and mercaptans that are the prime carcinogens.
I have posted about this many times. Read the "Root Canal Cover-up" by George Meinig. Weston Price discovered this miserable stuff in the thirties - and by golly - there are still dentists doing root canals. They know darn well they cannot be infection free or sterile and will fail sooner than later. Any cancer patient and any chronic patient seeing Dr. K. will learn that in order to have any chance at improvement, the root canals stand in the way.
At this University they have examined hundreds of root canals and they all fail. Sometimes, oftentimes, painless and quietly, sometimes with pain, but dead corpse toxin is dead corpse toxin. A root canalled tooth is a dead tooth putting out deadly toxins constantly. And the cavitations that follow are no fun either. I can tell you that first hand. My husband can tell you that first hand. Literally the majority of Klinghardt patients can tell you that firsthand.
Learn a lot before you do anything. A partial with a tooth on it beats any root canal by far.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
Hi Ali, you already got tons of good advice before I got here. I can offer one suggestion because this is what I usually have to do...
I tell the dentist up fron that I can't afford much and ask to fix the worst thing first and then we'll go from there. Basically, I only get the emergency taken care of but at least that's done and you don't have to worry about it.
Might as well just go for it and get it over with. Sorry though. Good Luck, I hope it goes much better than you're expecting.
Thank you Doc Dave! I didn't know there was such things as bite blocks. I've always just asked for frequent breaks and an ice pack asap after dental work. That sounds much better.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
Yikes Jay...If that tooth has a live nerve I don't know how you'd stand bondo...it gets real hot curing...JB Weld might work but it takes several hours to harden and tastes awful....
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
come on guys no bondo bondo is for your car not your mouth. it gives off enough heat to fry all the tissues in the mouth it is highly carcingenic,especially the dust. its just not biocompatible and could possibly kill you over time. if bondo was a dental material, dentist would have been using it for years.
no bondo, temp filling or cement. oil of cloves and zinc oxide powder will work. also now available tem compound in little tube in pharmacy for $8.00 do not use superglue, epoxy or any glues to recement your own crowns. WHY? because you don't know what is under that crown, maybe decay. the dentist has to be able to remove the crown and check it prior to recementation. recementing decay under crown, will go to nerve and cause abscess.
docdave Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
JB Weld worked wonders for attaching the right side mirror back on my old car.
Otherwise, I have used Biotene gum and toothpaste sometimes for dry mouth. It's not perfect but it helps some. Tastes pretty good, too.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Sorry guys, I was MIA for a few days! I think maybe DocDave wasn't wearing his mask .
How are you feeling Doc? Better, I hope. I can't find any of the threads I was posting on now, my brain is too scrambled. LLMD didn't seem concerned about my rash, I don't know if your back rash was similar to my belly rash.
Thanks so much for all the info! I actually picked up the Oasis Spray and some Biotene Mouthwash, while waiting for another round of azithromycin to be filled. They didn't have the Oasis mouthwash. Is the sensodyne toothpaste good for dry mouth too? I know it helps with sensitive teeth.
I realize that I've had this problem for quite some time. I often catch myself sitting around with a mouthful of whatever I may be drinking and suddenly realize I should swallow it. I usually always have a bottomless beverage. It used to be coffee, but I've been trying to stick with H20 or herbal tea now.
The valium might not be a bad idea. I've often thought that it would be great if they could just put me under general anethesia and fix all my dental problems in one fell swoop! It would save me the anxiety I go through every time I think about going.
LLMD just put me on azithromycin for another month. Can/should I take clindamycin too?
NO GUMMY WORMS??!!!!! Now what am I going to do, Dr. Killjoy?
Can I use oragel or something to numb my mouth before the hygenist cleans my cavitated teeth?
Jay & Charlie, Thanks for the effort guys.
True & Dilly, As always, thanks for your support & suggestions! It's nice to know I'm not alone.
Gigi,
Your post scares the bejeepers out of me. I have a feeling it was intended to do that. I'm trying to work up the nerve, but I'm afraid to click on the link. Maybe I should wait until after I make an appt. to look?
"DEAD CORPSE TOXINS"? YIKES! I actually caught myself trying to read this with one eye, while the other is trying to look away. It sounds like a horror movie.
Thanks so much for all the info. I hope I can work up the nerve to look at the root canal, but I have a feeling it will be very upsetting. I can't even bear to think of the expense now.
Thanks again everyone, for all of your input!
Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
AliG, I also read only the middle page of the Root Canal Cover-up book and then put it away - never to look at it again until I had more root canals and, my God, Lyme Disease. I was not fortunate enough for someone to point out the www.altcorp site. In fact, one of the scientists that today does this research is the inventor of Cavitat and testifies before Congress on related matters (mercury!) He used to spend his life in a wheelchair until he removed his root canals. He had some thirty surgeries to remove the damage from his jawbone.
He is walking, researching and lecturing all over the world today!
The expense issue: I learned very quickly that the expense was a hundred-fold and more before I finally managed to get through Lyme Disease without my root canals. The detoxing of the root canal toxins took a lot longer than the periods I had to do antibiotics to wipe out the Lyme. Same for the metal detoxing.
Yes, my purpose for still being on this board is to send out the warning. I can add to this that my breast cancer friends used to have root canals. If they manage to avoid the breast cancer, they have wheelchair binding MS until the got rid of the root canals. I can show you a movie telling this story.
The toxins root canals put out is a ready-made carcinogen and the most dangerous neurotoxin.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
I also have major dental phobia. I need some work done too, plus I know it would be a good idea to get all of my amalgams out.
I just can't bring myself to do it though. I can work myself into a panic attack just thinking about it.
Some dentists do conscious sedation now where you take a valium like pill, for instance, triazolam. I'm thinking that might be the way to go, but I'm not even there yet.
Laser dentistry usually doesn't require needles or medicine, which I've done before and works great for me. I'm just beyond that now, so that means I've got to have them, which is what scares me. Ugh!
Just wanted to let you know you're not alone.
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
ali my rash is better not great turns out is MRSA abx resistant staph aureous, worse than sterpt.
doc put me on septra DS and i herxed immediately and have been in herx mode for 4 days.
i don't know if he got the staph but he hit a nerve(no pun intented) with the babs and bb. there having a field day releasing their toxins.
any other questions i'll be here.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
Is there anyone who has/had lyme and had dentistry work done and just felt terrible for quite a while afterwards.
I started to see one dentist about 2 1/2 weeks ago, he did root canals on 2 teeth, one of each upper side, no problems, went really nice.
Last Monday went in for reconstructive work on upper left and lower left, did plenty of freezing,was almost upside down for over 2 hours, at one time half way through started to gag really bad and they didn't get me up and over fast enough, the gagging and heaves made my whole body break out in a zillion pinpricks. I am sure you know what I am talking about if you have ever thrown up.
Got a really bad migraine about 3 hours later, and freezing was coming out. But didn't feel too bad. Had another migraine waking Tuesday, mouth/tongue/back of throat/jaw/sinuses/left ear/left eye/top and left side of started hurting/aching.
Since then has gotten much worse,feels like a jackhammer pounding away at both upper and lower left jaw and back of head, my nose/sinuses burn and sting, tongue numb at times, last night noticed a very very sharp painful tingle on left top of head,down back and side of head and down neck to middle back. So sat and massaged for about 1/2 hour, helped somewhat, put hot water bottle on cheek and another one on back and went to bed that way. A little better this am but tonight the worst.
My brother is visiting from Regina,so tooks some pictures, sent a few to a friend who said I looked very drained. My boss at Peace Arch is a doctor and she said on Thursday I looked better, but that On Tuesday I looked dreadful and she was quite concerned. My right eye looks like when I had a few episodes of Bell's Palsy (droopy and sagging)I compared a picture taken in June vs this one, and I do not look well at all.
A friend said last night that some people have problems with the freezing, it does something to their sinuses. I wonder between lots of huge needles in many different spots, the drilling/reconstruction have I stirred up the ketes. Or this could aherx from hell.
Anybody have experience with this? I will see dentist on Monday, don't have an appointment but this has gone on way too long, and I have a high pain threshold.
Thanks.
Corinne
Posts: 461 | From Abbotsford, BC, Canada | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[shake]](graemlins/shake.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[hi]](graemlins/hi.gif)
![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
![[lol]](graemlins/lol.gif)
You mean it could get worse? ![[dizzy]](graemlins/dizzy.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[loco]](graemlins/loco.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[group hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic