posted
I am currently seeing an acupuncturist and taking an herbal formula made from whole chinese herbs. I was telling him the other day about cats claw and he informed me that it is one of the herbs in the formula.
I am not taking any antibiotics right now and am wondering if th Bb is being held at bay or possibly getting worse. My llmd says chinese medicine alone isnt enough but I have heard otherwise. What do you think?
My symptoms right now are: Swollen lymph nodes in neck and left armpit.
Wierd burning type feeling in my lungs or bronchial tube.
Ringing in ears.
Headaches in back of head by neck.
Have lost weight and cannot gain back.
Dizziness.
And even though I tested pos. wb from igenex I still fear I have a terminal illness in addition to lyme but I guess thats just fear.
Thanks for your help........Rich
Posts: 413 | From nj | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I strongly believe in Chinese boiling herbs. I have used them for many years. Not everyone subscribes to antibiotics. There are many of us here who only use alternative treatments. I combine the Chinese herbs with the salt/c protocol and some other adjuncts. There is a lot of good information here but, uUltimately, it depends on what you intuitively feel is right for you, not what anyone here tells you to do.
Sadie
Posts: 115 | From new york | Registered: May 2006
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Unfortunately, you are not going to get one answer. There has not been enough research into Lyme treatment, let alone alternative medicine treatments.
You can read people's posts on their experiences with chinese medicine and make the decision for yourself.
I have personally chosen to use antibiotics. But I also combine it with alternative/complementary medicine in the form of large doses of vitamins, minerals, amino acids and herbs from the Samento Protocol.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
rich, this is strange the symptoms you describe, i also have some of them, my lymph nodes are swollen around the left side of my neck, i have burning sensations in my lungs or airway, headaches and pressure occompanied by dizziness, the headaches come and go, and i don't have ringing in my ears but i do have sharp pains esp in left ear, and i don't have weight loss, but sure wish i did right now lol.
anyway just thought it was weird to see my symptoms listed, that happen to be yours. i can't really answer your question about chinese herbs, i just started reading Dr Zhang's new book about lyme and TBD treatment and am thinking about trying it.
hope you feel better, dee
Posts: 163 | From maine | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
My concern with using Chinese Medicine alone to combat Lyme Disease is that it is not tried and tested against Lyme.
It is scary enough going through a bad herx, but we hang on and keep the faith because we know it is to be expected, and soon enough, we will start to feel better.
With Chinese herbs, when that herx-like part comes along, we will know know definitively that it is a herx, because it is not tried and tested. We could, in fact, be getting worse at those times. I don't feel like we can risk our lives in that way right now. When our symptoms become life-threatening, I don't like to mess around.
I personally use chinese herbs for many of my miscellaneous symptoms - sinus infection, pain, moods, etc. I use acupuncture to treat everything as well. Limping? treat my knee etc. Plus the tune-up and prevention treatments.
But I do not count on chinese herbs alone to combat Lyme, because I feel that we know too little.
And I am an acupuncturist and Chinese herbologist, so it is not that I don't believe in Chinese Medicine. This is just my experience and belief, from years of Lyme and years of using Chinese Med... and trying to not do Western med and only herbs, and all sorts of experimentation.
Posts: 588 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Thank you all for the replies. I have been on abx in the past, most recent was doxy, and before that was a heavy dose of ceftin for a while.
My llmd is suspecting bart as a possible cause of the lymph node stuff. I did test neg for all co's but we know how that goes. The llmd gave me levaquin but i couldnt stay with it. So now I have some rifampin. I haven't started it yet
The llmd wants me to take it alone and as far as I have read it doesnt do much with Bb so I dont know if I should take it, or if I'm better of taking something with it to kill Bb.
As far as reading newbie links and what not, I read constantly on this site. I even read all the very very long threads lately. I am here alot I just don't say much. I guess I am just looking for some reassurance.
This gets scary as you all know.....Thanks for your help........Rich
Posts: 413 | From nj | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
up^
Posts: 413 | From nj | Registered: Nov 2005
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hi Rich
The way I look at it is use what works- Both ABX and chinese herbs have there uses-
Let me tell you 2 yrs ago I was almost dead- Now most of the time I feel perty good except when herxing-
Artemisinin is a chinese herb -I take it- and it helps alot --
75% of medicine are plant based in some way-
So Keep a open mind and and use what others have experanced that work-Jay--
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
I'm on Buhner's protocol plus other alternative things only, since about December last year.
I do believe some herbs are powerful. I'm symptom free if on herbs, except for chills after them (supposedly a herx??).
I think you have to try and see. You can do herbs with abx if you're afraid of leaving abx, but sometimes the killing is too much to stand.
Herbs like andrographis, teasel, artemisia annua and coptis are very powerful against lyme (artemisia also against babesia). Buhner wrote that he was contacted by about 200 people using his protocol and that most improved (take a look at planet thrive site), some became symptomless during the past year.
I'm one of them, I suppose. If I stop herbs, my arthritis comes back though, so I'm still far from cured, I suppose.
It's true that all this is experimental though. I had not much choice in the beginning as no one wanted to treat me with abx. Now I found someone who can prescribe me abx, but I'm happy with my herbs, so I'm not asking for them for the moment.
Each person is different and I think the only way to know is to try. If I continue in herbs for much longer and see no more improvement, I will maybe try the abx way in the future, who knows? For the moment, I'm happy with the herbs.
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by cave76: Your llmd is right. I hope you start antibiotics soon. The longer a person waits, the more entrenched the disease.
I agree wholeheartedly!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
Rich,
You're right -- it's all pretty scary, and I can get overwhelmed sometimes by the different treatment alternatives.
I'm a firm believer in Chinese medicine and have been taking various formulations since before I started taking antibiotics. In addition, I get weekly accupuncture treatment.
But my acupuncturist encouraged me to take any and all abx prescribed by my LLMD. She said that if i were in China and had Lyme, I'd be taking antibiotics in addition to those herbs.
So that's what I've done. I also have to say I made a huge leap of progress once I started treating symptoms I had for Bart (even though I had tested negative). The rifampin was really good for me. I ultimately added tinidizale to attack the cyst form and have made progress on that, too.
In the end, as others have said, it's something you'll have to decide for yourself.
I'll keep you in my thoughts!
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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I am an acupuncturist and practitioner of Chinese medicine, and I used much more than these modalities to get well.
I think that if you get a practitioner of herbal medicine who is very experienced in the treatment of Lyme and co-infections, maybe it could be used on its own, but from my experience, very few Chinese herbal doctors treat Lyme from every angle that needs treatment.
Also, herbs take time to kick in, and sometimes the bacteria multiplies rapidly, so you fall behind while waiting for the herbs to reach full strength.
I think other holistic therapies like saunas, vitamin supplementation, western herbs, electromagnetic therapies, are important adjuncts.
It is important to be taking antibacterials, whether antibiotics, herbs, or essential oils, that treat gram positive(Lyme) and gram negative(bartonella) bacteria.
In Chinese medicine terms, it is very important to treat blood stagnation with the herbs you are on. Sometimes practitioners focus on strengthening deficiencies instead of clearing excess patterns in the body(show this to your acupuncturist, he/she will know what I am talking about).
It is also important to reduce acidity and inflammation in the body. Herbs that have been traditionally used for epidemic infections and blood infections help with this.
Also, I have found that the herbs that have traditionally used to treat gout seem to really help with Lyme.
Anyway, Lyme disease needs to be targeted from every direction possible. I think it is better to combine your use of Chinese medicine with other things.
Farah
Posts: 208 | From New Mexico | Registered: Dec 2005
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Farah, did you use andrographis ? From almost everybody I heard that could ingest this specific herb (some can't due to sensibility), the killing effect is felt very fast.
I mean, I don't believe on single herb therapy either, but I just wanted to know whether you used this specific herb and still felt it didn't kick borrelia fast.
Thanks for your reply, Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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