Topic: another gallstone question or now what? (10/19) :(
trueblue
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I've have recently elevated LFTs which almost doubled after stopping ABX for 2 weeks.
Anyhoo, I'm now off most everything (excepting sleep meds and probiotics). I've got a bunch of major symptoms despite being off everything for 5 days, things are getting worse.
I was chalking these up to a major Babs flare for 3 weeks but they are not letting up. So, I'm not so sure, anymore.
My symptoms I can remember are: constant fever increasing at night intense chills alternating with full body hot flashes and sweats intermittant dull pain in the liver/gall bladdder area Nauseous/queasy/would like to hurl extreme exhaustion Massive temple and frontal headache, of new onset a week ago (including eyes and ears) loads of neuro stuff (fog and confusion sensitivity) some facial tingling weird vertigo
I really don't feel so good. I'm trying to wait it out but... ugh!
I was unable to get out of bed for more than a few moments before 2:30 this afternoon.
I was looking around for reasons for high LFTs and came across the possibiliy of a stone caught in the duct to the liver.
This could cause fevers and a bunch of those symptoms. I do have tiny 4 mm, I think, gallstone they found last year. Is it possible it's partially blocking a duct and doing this?
"Common bile duct stone Condition can simulate acute hepatitis. AST and ALT become elevated immediately, but elevation of AP and GGT is delayed."
I have only had AST and ALT test done so far.
Is this a possibility? I am not jaundiced but neither was I when I was diagnosed with Hep C, 8 years ago and my LFTs were 900 and 1350.
I'm hoping to get the local internist to run a new set of test maybe tomorrow. I'm afraid to just wait this out.
Any input?
Also does anyone know anything I can do for this "temple in a vice, nose trying to blow off face" headache off meds?
Thank in advance for any thoughts, advice or help you can offer.
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bettyg
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Feeling your pain; so sorry to read this. I don't have experience on this one.
Have you looked thru TREEPATROL'S NEWBIE LINKS; I'm sure he has something in there that would apply to your situation. Good luck; hope you get back to normal SOON. Bettyg
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trueblue
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Thanks Betty,
I didn't find anthing applicable in Tree's Newbie Links but may have been kind of out of it and missed it.
The doc called and wants me in for a liver profile this afternoon. That'll either put my mind at ease or tell us what direction we need to go.
I sure would like this headache to stop though. pfffft <- that would be an improvement.
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trueblue
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Actualy the hammer is preferable to the vise.
I had an US done within the past year, that's how I know there's a baby stone. not recent enough, though.
I could be misunderstanding what I've read but I "think" the added tests on the liver profile should tell the doc which direction to look.
It could also be an acute Babs flare which is what I suspect triggered the HepC 8 years ago and got me diagnosed with both. I don't believe I had any pains, dull or otherwise then just complete and utter exhaustion.
Thanks
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trueblue
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Cave, Anyting's possible, at last check a liver biopsy about a year or so ago, my second in 6 years. My liver looked pretty good. No change in that time from the HepC.
Part of my curiousity is the liver functions went up when adding another med to the Ketek and then increased considerably after stopping Ketek. I wonder if the other med didn't react somehow or was just too toxic for me given all the other variables. The internist said this other med is very capable of doing this.
Yup, lot's of questions and hopefully some answers after the tests later. Maybe tomorrow. I'd just like to see them dropping and not continuing ot rise.
Ha, then maybe I can take something for the headache.
Anyway, it's time for my nap; I'll let you know what I find out.
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Carol in PA
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Blue, I don't have any specific suggestions for you, besides the observation that you sure do sound sick.
Hah, like that's news to you.
When I was working, if I had interviewed someone with symptoms like yours, I would have said, "Yikes!" and sent them to their doctor right away.
You've already seen your doc, and he's monitering your liver function.
Medication for the headache would have to be processed by your already overtaxed liver.
Mmmmm....maybe supplements to increase glutathione in the liver, which would help it to detox the stuff circulating in your bloodstream.
And maybe antioxidants.
Hugs, Carol
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hey true, So sad for you now...I hate this disease.
Have you tried just a teeny tiny bit of coffee? I have just a squirt with a lot of milk when I have a crushing headache. (Maybe 4tblsp of freshly brewed coffee).
Get the stone checked out...Bb loves the gb.... wishing you a vice-free day...
Blessings Kim
-------------------- We are spiritual beings on a human journey...
trails
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hi truey!
oh let it all just freakin get BETTER already!
I agree with serendipity--an Ultrasound will show whether there is a stone stuck in the duct. I would get one done if at all possible. even if the blood work doesnt point to it. It is a good thing to have and it isnt bad for you or invasive.
It sounds to me like maybe a combo effect of lots of stuff. It could be a stone COMBINED with other things like babs and the hep c. Combo things suck. they just make life more interesting than we ever needed it to be.
Let us know how the liver panel comes back! trails
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lymeinhell
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Could the headache stuff be from the mold issue in your room?? Maybe get outside and get some fresh (albeit hot) air and see if it goes away????
Good detective work on the GB - let us know how you make out.
Sorry it's been such a stinky month (or two) for you.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
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trueblue
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grrrrrr... forum ate my post. Starting over...
I went and had the liver panel drawn. The tech had already left so they will call me tomorrow with the results. I imagine the doc will decide if he wants to see me when he gets a gander.
_________________________________________________
Carol - I knew that about taking headache meds, which is why I'm not taking any. So far all that helps is a lot of naps. Boy I've been having some wild dreams.
I don't know about glutathione or antioxidants, I haven't actually asked a doctor and am chicken to play around too much.
_________________________________________________
Ser - I know an ultrasound would show, I had one done not too long ago but my symptoms were much more classic at that time. I'm gonna have to leave this up to the internist to make a decision. I would feel better with an ultrasound but have to wait to speak with him.
If I start having serious pain, something other than a dull ache, I will call, whenever. Thank you for the site about cholecystisis, much appreciated.
_________________________________________________
Kim - Thank you so much for the blessings and the vise-free wish. It seems to be helping somewhat.
I have tried coffee in the past for migraines but it usually just makes my stomach hurt. I'm not good at coffee but it's a good thought.
_________________________________________________
Trailsy - For some reason this made me smile(though it probably shouldn't). I can hear you saying it.
quote:oh let it all just freakin get BETTER already!
I'm with you it's freakin' time already.
Combo stuff sucks and everything seems to be combo stuff. There doesn't seeem a way to separate things out. pffft. I'm sorry you're the "queen of combo stuff". We need to think up new titles for us all, I'm afraid.
_________________________________________________
Julie - I don't know about this new headache, it's possible. I've gone out side but it's so bright it makes my head hurt too. It seems to be an eye/ear/temple/blow you facial bones out type headache. Intensity varies. BTSOM!!!! (It may all be connnected to the muscle knots, neck and shoulder stuff that I thought was getting better, ha!)
I'm staying at a friend's dusty guest house tonight and tomorrow night as she had surgery a while ago and is not doing great and her husband needs to go away for 2 days. Ha, we'll see if that's any better as far as mold goes.
(I'm thinking a dip in her luke-warm tub might feel kind of good.)
Either way we'll probably be quite the pathetic pair.
Thank you all for the input, support, info, hugs and kisses. It's all greatly appreciated. I'll let you know how the liver panel comes out.
I probably won't have much computer access while over at my friend's. I will post when I hear something, though. I'm just gonna keep drinking water and sleeping too much until then.
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Carol in PA
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Blue, you said,
I don't know about glutathione or antioxidants, I haven't actually asked a doctor and am chicken to play around too much.
These supplements are things that should help your liver, not stress it.
Your doctor already had you try whey, and you couldn't take it because of allergy to milk proteins.
That's too bad, because according to this, whey is a good way to raise glutathione levels within the cells.
I already take some of the supplements listed, and I plan to get some whey when I do my next order for supplements.
I think you need to get your glutathione levels up to help your liver do its job.
Carol
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NP40
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Hey Blue, Have the "stone" angle checked but it sounds like a nasty Babs herx. They're absolutely the worse and can continue for days even after stopping meds.
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trueblue
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Thanks Carol! I'm too out of it to read all that right now. I will read it over in the morning.
But if I can take antioxidants then my stress tabs and Vit C are probably a good idea for now.
I was taking milk thistle but ran out today. I'll get some in the morning, ha, I mean late afternoon the way things are going.
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trueblue
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quote:Originally posted by NP40: Hey Blue, Have the "stone" angle checked but it sounds like a nasty Babs herx. They're absolutely the worse and can continue for days even after stopping meds.
NP40, I've been nasty Babs herxing since 9/14. Off ABX for better then 2 weeks and off everything else for 6 days. Stuff just keeps coming with no sign of letting up.
Yeah, I know... whine, whine, whine... I'm so so tired and fevery and...
Thank you for telling me this can and does often last a while. I feel better knowing I'm, hopefully, not stuck this way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm on friend's laptop and will let you guys know what the doc says tomorrow. Thanks all of you. I feel better knowing you're all out there. *insert weepy smilie here*
many hugs...
I think I need to sleep now.
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trueblue
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Ok, finally got a call today and the liver functions are coming down. Yay! Still high but the right direction, maybe a couple more weeks...
the symptoms are lessening in intensity except sudden and frequent head to toe HOT, really hot and sometimes sweaty, moreso when horizontal.
It's like I lay down and catch on fire. 10 minutes later cool.
Is it Babs or is it menopause? Egad! (or both together?)
Headaches are still trying to blow the bones out of my head.
all in all I'm doing much better.
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Yeah! This is great and much needed news after all you have been through.
Hopefully things will be looking up from now on except for your LFTS which will continue going down. Posts: 628 | From the south | Registered: Dec 2005
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5dana8
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((((hey True))))
sorry your feeling so sick
I know everyones different but just thought to share - it took me a good two months after I stoped all babs meds to clear the herx & toxins.
I felt a little better after a month(the sweats & hot flash's stopped) and another month to feel somewhat human again.
5 months before the nausea got 50% better.
I would say the worst of the neuro stuff took the longest to clear.
tincups detox tea recipe helped. Its mild and not alot of harse herbs in it. Teas like cham-danilion-red clover-decaf green tea ect.. if you need I will try to find it.
I am sure you are already drinking tons of water
Eating lots of Beets helped me alot with my liver & GB stuff.
Glad to hear your liver panals better & you are feeling a tad better.
you hang in there
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Jill E.
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As someone who's been through the skyrocketing liver enzymes horror, I know how thrilling it is when they start coming back down!
I am so happy for you. Hopefully this is the beginning of things getting better.
Take care, Jill
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trueblue
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Thanks Ser, Dana and Jill,
I think I feel the most better about hearing the numbers are moving the right direction.
I suspect it'll still take a while and don't know where I go from here but at least I know it's not to the hospital. Phew!
Dana, were you done with a round of Babs treatment at that point or was it interrupted? Did you have to stay off everthing waiting for it all to clear?
I did have beets today and will up the tea intake. Just have to be careful which ones.
It is helpful to have some idea what to expect.
-------------------------------------------------
If I could just find a way to detox my head... maybe put a hose in one ear and run the water like you're cleaning the gutters?
I don't know what would lessen the head pressure. I'm kind of waiting to see when (what little is left of) my brains get splattered all over the wall.
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5dana8
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Interupted True. My stomach couldn't hold out.
But as the months went by & the herx & toxins cleared I noticed I didn't have fever or chills or sweats. First time in 20 years. I think it was succuessful in that respect & it was a long enough time( around 3-5 months -but it varies per person how long to treat)
Yikes! no hose- maybe a sprinkler
but I do like your graphics.
feel better soon
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trueblue
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Thanks Dana, I knew I should know but didn't remember.
No fever, sweats and chills... wow cool! I used to have them on and off but it's been almost daily for around a year and increasing; sure is getting old.
ok, thinking about the sprinkler sounds tickle-y.
I knew somewhere out there was that exploding head graphic. Surely a good use of my time looking for it. (I think I may use it as a sig.)
who cares if it's on a tan background?
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trails
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i just wanted to let you know that I am really glad that your LFTs are starting to come back down. Remember that your body is doing A LOT of healing right now. WAY TO GO TRUE BLUE!!!
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trueblue
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thanks trails
let's all do us some healing, k?
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trueblue
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I've been feeling slightly better for a couple of days and am back from the appointment with the internist.
Nothing much is new... mucho bloodwork was taken and I'm scheduled for an abdominal ultrasound on Thursday.
I am to make an appt with my gastro that specializes in Hep and see what he has to say. (I haven't been there in a few years, I'm sure he'll be terribly pleased with me. I better start digging out the tests I haven't forwarded to him in 2 years.)
So all in all, just more testing and feeling crummy while waiting.
I did ask about the temple/above the nose headache and feeling like the bones in my head were going to blow up. Dr Smartypants' answer was maybe my head is going to blow up.
I did start to lose it before he left the room and said I was so disappointed that I was finally getting to treat the TBD stuff and now can't. He told me, "it's not done; don't panic."
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trueblue
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I was feeling a little better for 3 or 4 days, mostly just uncomfortable but today it came roaring back with a vengence.
I really feel lousy. Fatigue, fever, sweats, chills, headache, queasiness, pains (not very severe) but now all over the right side, upper, lower and middle. I need to hold my side a lot. Really feel pretty out of it.
I just need to make it to the ultrasound tomorrow afternoon and hope to heck somehting shows up. Please!
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If you did have a stone in your bile duct, wouldn't your stools be very light in color? Then you would gradually develope some jaundace. Wouldn't there be a lot of pain also?
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trueblue
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i don't know. Stools are not really light and there's a good amount of pain in a lot of places, all on the right, not really acute just sore and extremely tender.
Billirubin was ok and I don't tend to jaundice, apparently it's uncommon with HepC.
I just feel generally really bad, with a lot of back pain, too.
I just want something fixed, soon.
And thanks micul, one less thing to worry about.
gonna try and get some sleep.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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true...I'm fairly new here but well experienced in your situation. You are forming stones & the symptoms are showing up. This also means your headaches. If you don't act you could have a major gallbladder attack. This can be worse than a heart attack...trust me...I know.
For immediate relief try this...works like a charm. Go get some (ES)epsom salts(magnesium sulfate). Look for one that says on the label it can be used as a laxative. Should only be a couple of dollars at any drug store. Don't eat for a couple of hours before & after. Here's the procedure: Grab 2 cups. In 1 cup put at least 8 oz of good pure water into it. Warm it up. Put about 2 oz of the water in the 2nd cup. In the cup with 2 oz put a heaping tablespoon of the ES into it & stir well. Chug this down as quickly as you can & then chase it with the other glass of water. It will be gross but it will heal you. It will dilate your ducts & act as a laxative. Within 15 mins your stone will move & you will have relief of symptoms. Remember this is also a laxative so be by a bathroom. This can literally save your life. I've done this with somebody at work & it saved her from the ER.
In the future you might want to consider the Liver Flush(LF). I'm afraid your doc will eventually want to take your gallbladder(GB) out. Just the fact you have stones & showing symptoms does not warrant surgery. If your having major problems than I can see. If you have your GB out you will still make stones cus they are formed in the liver. Your doc will not tell you this, most do not know. Do you know your blood type? The LF will remove stones, sludge, chaff(cholesterol flakes), & best of all toxins. You can have a complete cure of symptoms like you wouldn't believe, maybe even bliss & a feeling of lightness & energy up the roof like I have gotten.
I myself have done 12 LF's. I gotten out well over 2,000 stones of various sizes, & big ones. Also thousands upon thousands of chaff. The health benefits were numerous. I no longer have to have my GB out & get no discomfort. I probably saved my insurance co about $40,000. So please consider.
Pat Sr
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trails
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i hated hearing this news--I wanna just plug my ears and say nananananananana at the toop of my lungs so i dont hear that you are doing so badly.
I dont have answers -- just want you to get better.
trueblue
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Thank you for your reply, MrG.
I'm at the point right now where I can't do anything until I see what the tests show. Just got back now from the US. LFT's are still pretty high and some of the other bloodwork a bit whacked.
I'm afraid to try anything and was told to take nothing until we figure this out. This is something I would try, otherwise.
I've spent more than half of my life working at keeping this gallbladder. In my early 20's I had a doc that felt it was sludgy and had me drink 6 glasses of papaya juice a day. It worked amazingly well.
The small stone(or polyp) they saw last year was the first time anyhting had shown up on any test in all these years (about 25) so it seems I don't make too many stones or hadn't until now.
I'm not planning on having the GB out unless it turns out to be badly diseased or completely non-functioning. I've never had surgery and would hate to start now.
I'm just hoping the doctor's office gets back to me soon and nothing else goes wrong by then.
Again thank you!
edit: I just remembered you asked blood type. O neg, is that significant?
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trueblue
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quote:Originally posted by trails: I dont have answers -- just want you to get better.
Trails ~ Thank you kiddo, I'm working on it. Granted it's not going as fast as I'd like. I'll be ok, I promise.
Ultrasound is done and am just waiting for the doc to call and give me results. I hope he's not on vacation. I have a sneaking suspicion.
I did get a glimpse of my blood tests from Monday but they wouldn't give me a copy with out the doctor looking them over.
LFT's are down a little more. (48 and 160 or something) MCH still high and MCHC still low ~ I don't know what those mean but think they are red blood cell things. UIBC is low - They ran tests for iron because I'm suspect for hemochromatosis. The other iron tests were in range this time.
Some other things were a little wonky but without the results I have no way of looking them up so will have to wait for the doc's call.
If things get too bad I'll call one of the doc's back.
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Hi True, I think you've had enough difficulties and all this nonsense should stop.
Hope your doctor calls you soon
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trueblue
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Thanks Ser, The and help. Right back at ya.
I really feel awfuller.
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trueblue
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and don't know what I'm supposed to do now.
I can't assess this and don't know if I need to call the LLMD. I doubt the test results will be there.
The internist has a covering doc that's going to know even less if I call there.
not having fun!!!!!!!!!!!!
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5dana8
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sorry you are feeling so bad
can't remember but have you had a HIDA scan recently?
I had an ultra with no stones & an abnormal HIDA Scan. I am also trying to avoid sugury. For a sick person I am a wimp about hospitals
My nausea & pain truned out to be erosions in my GI track, probably the final straw was the babs meds I took at the end... Found out from a scope.
Not sure it was a perfect idea to keep my GB but that's what happened. I am now at about 50% better in the nuasea department.
hang in there
and hope you can find some answers soon.
P.s. Personally,if it where me, I wouldn't do a liver clense right now. You sound too fragile. Just keep eating those beets
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trueblue
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Thanks Dana, Don't worry; not doing a cleanse in this state.
I've only had an ultrasound and no results.
Pain is not so bad but feel really sick, shaky, headachy, achy, fevery, palps, etc...
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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If things are getting worse go to an ER. OK? It could be an acute gallstone attack and infection. The will likely do an emergent ultrasound and you will get the results immediatley.
If you can make it through the evening, give us an update on what your doc says in the morning. If the ultrasoud is normal, push for a HIDA scan.
Nothing further to add so I'll give you another I do wish I had all the answers or a magic wand to wave over you.
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trueblue
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Ser, I took my sleep meds and think it'll be ok. Not ready for an ER and the pain is not that acute.
not so shaky, queasy and headachy, atm.
If that changes I will go but for now am going to try and wait for morning and then raise all kinds of hell.
I refuse to be left like this for the weekend.
I've been to this ER before and they are worthless. The mess you around and then make you worse before sending you home and not helping at all. So I'm trying to avoid that unless I truly have no choice. I'll be ranting to the doctor's office when they get in in the morning.
And thanks for the
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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true...so your type o blood...that good. It does not mean you won't make stones, as type A such as myself are more prone. So you don't care for the liver flush right now...that's ok, I'm just letting you know it's a option. But I ask that you save the recipe for the epsom salts, it can literally save your life.
Pat Sr
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trueblue
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quote:Originally posted by MrG: true...so your type o blood...that good. It does not mean you won't make stones, as type A such as myself are more prone. So you don't care for the liver flush right now...that's ok, I'm just letting you know it's a option. But I ask that you save the recipe for the epsom salts, it can literally save your life.
Pat Sr
Oh, good to know about the blood type. I couldn't handle the liver flush right now.
There's no one here to look out for me and am feeling pretty iffy. This has been going on for a few weeks and I'm pretty worn down by it.
Dana's use of the word fragile struck a chord.
I have every intention of saving the recipe for future use, though. Thank you for sharing it with me.
The 2 type A's in my family had their GBs removed at early ages, The other O not until a bad attack at 63. I may be able to hold onto this sucker for a while longer.
Gonna go to bed and hope the morning is better.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I haven't posted here for years but what we are going through might be of help.
My husband has been on Ketek for 3 months and ended up in the ER for what he thought were kidney stones. It turned out to be an enlarged pancreas. All the liver numbers and enzyme numbers from the pancreas were in range and they couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. I asked if the antibiotics would have anything to do with it and got told by 2 different doctors that they would not be a problem. HA!
That is not what the LLMD said!
We went home with pain meds and stopped the abx and things started to get better. He has also gone to liquids to rest the pancreas but it was the Ketek that caused all this. Also, Ketoconizole, (Nizoral) should not be taken with Ketek or you can have lots more problems.
Anyway, gall bladder is one source it could be but just remember that regular docs don't understand what antibiotics can do any more than they understand what Lyme can do. Good luck with getting better. Rae
Posts: 8 | From Troutdale, Or. USA | Registered: Jul 2003
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
Thank you, Rae, for sharing what's going on with you and your husband.
I was only on 2 months of Ketek (at 400mg) and all seemed fine. We added another med(not nizoral) and the LFTs went haywire. I am off ketek for over a month. And all but sleep meds, now, for better than 2 weeks. Lver functions are creeeping down.
However, I'm feeling increasingly worse.
I can't have any other meds with the LFTs being what they are and eating or not eating all feels terrible.
I realize this could be gallbladder, liver, pancreas, spleen, kidneys, etc. Or maybe more than one.
Even water makes me burp.
I just woke up at 5:30 petrified to move.
I wish they would give me the results of the tests already. So I would know what to do. I just don't know who to call and where to go to get this straightened out.
Thank you for the good luck in getting better wish.
true
What kind of liquids is he on? just curious and also very scared.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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