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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Anybody Sicker after Tx then before Tx.

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Author Topic: Anybody Sicker after Tx then before Tx.
stymielymie
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it seems to me that I was sick
with fibro and cfs and severe depresion,
they though it was because my dad died.

well I think 6 years now after treatment
and 7 years untreated, i really think I felt
better before i got all the abx,antimalarial,
antivirals, antieverything, in my body.

do other people feel the same.

maybe the cure is to not treat it????

not a joke, just serious thought about
the way I feel now.

would all these sysmptoms really hit me
later , or did the intially abx and killing
of bb with toxin release cause more problems
than leaving it non-treated.

any thought???

docdave [confused] [bonk] [confused]

Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
*Daisy*
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I feel worse now as well. I am a little better with the fatigue but other problems are much worse.


Mainly pain and neuro stuff are worse.I don't have any answers just thought I would wallow a little in self-pity.

Interested in others answers as well.

--------------------
Daisy

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lymeinhell
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Hey Doc

I for one am better after being undxd for 10 yrs. I haven't felt this good in over a decade.

Did it suck during treatment - absolutely!! And for a while, yes, I felt worse. Not till I started detoxing did I manage to start having a few good hours here and there, and eventually NORMAL hours and days.

Is Lyme gone from my body - most likely not. Would I do it again if I had to - you betcha.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel - sometimes it's just hard to find the switch. [bonk]

--------------------
Julie
_ _ ___ _ _
lymeinhell

Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed.

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stymielymie
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well i did have 2 years out of six thati went into remission.
thiught it was over and golf and tennis
back on schedule.

now its docs 3 times a week.
can't even go up to see donnie at mar-lago
i guess i need to sell the ferrari and
trade it in on a walker.

at least wal-mart and target have electric cards you can ride in the store.
i just put my Jeff Gordon hat and shirt
on and speed along at 1.2222 miles and month.

yes i know its tough. but somedays you just get tired of all the fighting,retraining,
medicines, side effects
and say f--- it. i had enough.

why can't i give this disease to
some killer or something.
i thought i was a good person, and it is
very hard to hold on the praying to g-d
when nobody is listening.

maybe one day in the near future he will
listen ( no to me anymore) ,but to somebody
here ,and bring us poor souls a cure.

it the coping, up and down, thats depressing.
and now its spread to my wife.

so to be so down, i'll try not to fall too far
in the well.

docdave [puke]

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TerryK
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hi docdave,
I'm sorry you are suffering so much.:-( Have you tried getting rid of neurotoxins via something like questran/actos. I've heard that the toxins can continue circulating in some people unless they use something to remove them.

I know you are a dentist and I think I recall that you don't believe that metal in the mouth is a problem but you might consider that you need to deal with metals. There may be some truth in the information that states that some bacteria becomes resistant to abx in the presence of amalgams in the mouth.
Terry

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stymielymie
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terry K
you have misread my posts.
i never said that mercury and heavy metals in people are not a problem.
what i said was that it is only a problem if you are seriously immunocompromised.
the adverage person on the street will not have a problem with amalgam fillings, but i don't advocate them.
actually if you have 2 disimilar metals in the mouth, gold and silver filling or non precious metal and porcelain, it can be a major problem
to metrals with all the ions and electrons floating in the mouth cause a galvanic reaction,
this is like chewing on tin foil.

this galvanic reaction produces electricity,
it is basically a small battery in your mouth
SO IT YOU STAND SOUTHEAST YOU CAN PICK UP SEVRAL RADIO STATIONS. YOU MUST PULL ON YOUR EAR TO CHANGE THE STATION. LOL

anyway metals in the mouth aren't good for immunocompromised people and should be avoided for any new restorations.

but if the metal don't kill you the cement might.
the cement is very acidic and cause problems
later down the road.

so i don't got no silver in mine mouth
and i don't want any either!!!!

docdave
i do not have any amalgam in my mouth and did
very few amalgams in 23 years of dental practice.

my mercury levels are low and don't need chelation therapy.

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TerryK
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Hi docdave,
Thanks for explaining your take on amalgams. Good that you know that metals aren't the reason that you aren't getting better.

I've been trying to keep an eye out for any mitigating factors in getting rid of this infection as I'm sure you have. I've no doubt that you are well aware of co-infections but have you been treated for them all? As we've heard from many, they are very hard to detect. Perhaps that is another avenue?

My LLMD said that if I don't get substantially better on abx that we will try some anti-virals since I've had many viruses, including HHV-6. Have you been tested for viruses? Anyway, my LLMD said that even though some say that anti-viral medication doesn't work, he has seen some who have gotten better with them.

Just a thought. I really hope you get it figured out. Hang in there and keep looking. Don't give up and you will find the answer.
Terry

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stymielymie
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terry k
yes i am very well informed on all aspects of tbi
i have been doing research for 5 years .

i was the first one to introduce antivirals to
the regime of lyme treatment.
it may actually be impossible to treat all coinfections.

like the doc says the disease is nasty but the
treatment will kill you.

for you to take that much medicine at one time
would probably shut down half your internal
systems.

you can only treat for the most obvious,
but still the killer is the stealth bb.
in its steath form it grabs the end of a
cells dna and hides from our immune system and
any medicine know at present.

my present research is having to break the bond
from the cell so that its stealthness can be treated.

there is also a theory i have develpoed that
in the stealth form the bb tends to act like a virus in hibernation. it comes out under stressful times just like the herpes virus.

the similarities are to close to ingnore.
i am now looking for a chemical or enzyme that
can break the bond between bb and cells ,allowing them to stay in the blood stream for abx to work.

this is very time consuming research and would be helpful if i did have access to a micro lab.
at this point i can only postulate and make assumptions based on my research.

i will work as hard as i can to find a cure for all within 2 years.

god bless

docdave

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Lymetoo
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I used to feel worse and wondered what the heck I was accomplishing. But I knew what Lyme had done to my parents' lives and I didn't want to "go there."

You WILL prevail if you continually detox, keep a healthy diet...NO SUGAR or simple carbs, doc...and keep abreast of new developments in treatment. [and I don't just mean the latest in abx]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Ladylee210
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Not feeling better after yrs of treatment can also mean "Yeast".

[Frown]

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Carol in PA
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Doc Dave:
Have you investigated systemic enzyme therapy?

I understand that it helps the antibiotics to work better on the bacteria.

Carol

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Michelle M
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Dear Doc,

I'm sorry you are feeling so embattled. It hasn't been as long for me but I can sure relate.

I do have a question... Seems like some time ago you said you were negative for babesia and thus had not treated for it. Is this still true? Ever done a course of the yellow goop and all the trappings, in spite of a negative test?

I clearly remember being worried about that in the past in light of your lack of progress on many abx regimens.

[confused]

Michelle

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luvs2ride
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Doc,

I'm chiming in with those above who are saying look elsewhere for your problem. I am sure after so many years of abx your gut is probably damaged. It will make you VERY SICK and prevent any treatment from working.

A damaged body can't respond to abx or anything else. It is like pouring premium gasoline into a tank with holes in it.

Luvs

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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stymielymie
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yah we decided that i have neuro babs.
right know docs got me on biaxin and plaquenil.
was doing really good on that until my
staph infection and bactrim was added.
major herxing and non-stop.
only have 3 days left so,should
feel better after this.

yes i have looked at all treatments,been on
antiyeast for many years dilucan, vfend,
mitronazole,nystatin, so i've been through that
every 4-5 months.

right now my major reason for not getting better
is mental. the soul can heal the body
but my soul is dead.

severe depression, bipolar and major anger
along with oxycodone for my arm put
me in the hospital for 3 days with a stomach
pump.

me and T.O. in the same ward. he got right out
me they left me for 3 days.
they did get me on the right psych pills,
and getting a basline spect scan next week.

i've tried many natural homeopathics but don't have any effect on my treatment.
remember i had lots of lyme in my system when
finaaly diagnosed. elsia 5.8 and western blot
all bands except 1.

docdave

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luvs2ride
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but what about your diet? What do you eat? Did you know that the gut controls your emotions? Read "The Maker's Diet". It is an excellent description of how the gut correlates with depression.

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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cordor
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Yes. I wish I could go back to the days prior to treatment. After 3 years of this (IV, oral abx)feeling worse than I could have ever imagined.
Someone tell me about the anti-virals????? I also have tested positive for past exposure to herpes 1, parvo, HHV-6, herpes 8 and epstein-barr.
Lyme just seems to get worse ever since starting abx. By the way, went undiagnosed for probably 20 years (was told I had MS)

--------------------
Corinne

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valymemom
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My son feels as badly (with same, intense symptoms) as he did when he began treatment 3 years ago. I do believe his body is full of toxins and yeast. We think the best thing for him is to break from abx and take care of his leaky gut. Although he has done nystatin and diflucan some over the years and had bloodwork to check yeast.....I think this very important aspect of diet and detox has not been emphasized enough to us.

He is losing so much weight and most of the hair he has left. Recently two people recommended we read The Maker's Diet, too.

The lyme moms I am friends with in the area have reminded me what we are doing clearly isn't working so gotta try something different.

I am hopeful healing the systemic yeast with a homeopathic doctor will help.

So many good people to turn to on this board for help.....I am grateful for their voices.

Doc Dave....I hope you find the puzzle piece.

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Gabrielle
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I was asking myself exactly the same question.

After 2,5 years of abx I had lost many symptoms but in general I felt worse than before treatment as I was in a kind of constant herx. End of May this year I took a break from abx because I felt very toxic.

During 4 months I tried to do something for my gut and tried an alternative approach. During these 4 months my general condition was far more better but very soon all the symptoms that were gone with abx came creeping back.

I'm back on abx now but I'm trying a pulsed regime where I am on abx for 1 week and then have a break for 3 weeks. This is a regime invented to treat chronical Rickettsiosis but seems to be quite successful with Lyme also. It is said that the breaks from abx are important to allow the bacteria to come back out of their hiding places into which the abx are driving them.

I hope to feel better with this therapy!

Gabrielle

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stymielymie
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Cordor:
sorry to disappoint you but 95% of people
test positive for all those viruses.
herpes is usually in your system when you are a baby and your mom kisses you for the first
time.
eb comes from chicken poxs as a kid and eb as an
adult.
these test mean they are in your system.
that you have antibodies for these viruses.
that you have been exposed at one time to these viruses.

will they return? yes probably.
herpes viruses and eb viruses tend to return
when the body is under unusually stress
this stress can be physical as in disease,
or mental and stress.

herpes and eb viruses stay in the nerve ending
in our bodies and raise their heads when
the body is under stress ie cold sores(herpes
simplex.

i started antivirals sevral years ago for 2 reasons of coverage.
1) they control outbreaks of viruses when
immune system is low, ie shingles, eb, hogkin's
lymphoma.
2) my research has shown the positbity of
bb changing to a viral-like form when hiding
in the cells. the coincidence of herpes and
bb
reaction to stress are identical.

so acyclovir is a safe drug and probably
should be added to the lyme treatment regime.
any treatment should be approved by your
llmd or duck.

docdave

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Getting Better
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docdave

I can relate to much of what you said in your initial post. While I was bragging last week that I felt 70% better, this week I feel 70% worse.

I've had this dam thing for a long time, but only been treating it for 1.5 years.

1.5 years = only. How pathetic is that?

Yesterday my doctor, who is always positive, told me there is no evidence that we ever get rid of lyme. He said I will be chronically ill for the rest of my life ... but will be able to maintain a better level of functioning if I keep going. He said the one good thing about people who are chronically ill is that we tend to take care of ourselves better.

I feel like crap this morning, have to take a morphine bcs last week, in all my delusion when I was feeling so good, I took a consulting job and now I've got to function today as if I weren't sick.

Ugh

What is good is that perspectives change all the time, so these downers will change.

--------------------
Jeff

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break the chains
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i am coming up on 10 years chronic
i did at least 5-6 years of treatment
this was 4-5 years of orals, even 3-4 years with the best ilads drs. i also did one year of iv. i found this was helping, but very slowly. i had a feeling i could do another 2-3 years and maybe gain some real ground, but that it wasnt going to fix me, and i was still going to be very dependant on it.
i used to be completely addicted to antibiotics, in that if i went off i would start to get very sick, very quickly. these drugs had taken the place of my immune system.
my doctor was worried about doing more antibiotics with me. my GI has been trashed completely from abx. i have soo many allergies, and im always developing new ones. im many ways the antibioics made me worse. the toxicity was a major problem i think.
almost 2 years ago i went to a raw vegan organic diet and that has helped me a lot. it has lifted my mind body and spirit. i used to be down a lot, but i dont have that problem anymore really.
my emotions are still very dependant on what i eat though. sugar, carbs, nuts they make me sick and sad. i even used to get bad dreams from what i would eat sometimes(when i ate bad)
also i used to not have much hope for recovery. that in itself, and never seeing the improvement, recovery, or hope, got me down. i would always be feeling sad after i left the drs office bcause it was just more of the same and little hope. last time i went it was really great though, because i was doing so much better on my own.
i found a bunch of things that are very important, one is cleansing. this doesnt mean drinking a tea or using foot patches or something, although this can be used to help. i mean using fresh green juices with chlorophyll, lemons, juice fasting, raw vegan diet(detox diet), serious organ cleanses.
i got to a point where i realized that i would do what it takes to get better. i have made some changes, and tried a lot of things, but over all i feel i am improving and doing better. i really like my diet for many reasons, one being it makes me feel so good. cooked food shuts down the immune system up to and greater than 50%. your immune system actually attacks it the entire time its in your body.
something else that makes me feel good is the salt and c protocol done naturally. i take real salt powdered sea salt and synergy company's whole food vitamin c.
this is a strong natural antibiotic. now its all so clear to me. the answer for people who are seriously sick is often not more highly toxic drugs, but things that clean out the body, repair the immune system, and wipe out disease while being nontoxic.
there are perfectly good natural antibiotics. many are completely non toxic, or alkalizing in the body. there are also many things which are not strong enough. i spent years of going through these. also i think a misconception is that it should be one thing, a silver bullet. what is working for me now is looking at all aspects of not only illness, but health as well. im learning what makes someone really healthy.
i think some good natural antibiotics are: sea salt, vitamin c, silver, ozone, peroxide, artemiseia, and electromedicine. most all of these are non toxic, most clean out the body. thery are pretty simple and elemental. im sure im even missing a lot.
in the end though, you need to have your immune system functioning properly. which is possible and needed for every last one of us.
mine used to be completely down. my natural killer cell count was a 0 or a 1. last time i had it checked it was 38. the normal range was 20-50
another thing i attribute a lot of my success to is the KMT machine. i think this thing has helped me a whole lot. i like them so much ive got 2 here if someone wants to get one cheap.
i also love my ozone machine, ozonated water is great. makes you feel really good. same with the ozone saunas.
cleansing has been so important for me too. everyone should know about hulda clarks gall bladder stone flush, parasite cleanse, muciod plaque colon cleanse, kidney stone flush. these things will make you feel wonderful, as will juice fasting. check out curezone.com, there is lots of information on these things.
heres hulda clarks book:
http://www.royalrife.com/cure.pdf

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break the chains
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oh, i wanted to say. all of these things, especially the kmt machine, and fixing my immune system has allowed me to go off all antibiotics since last spring. i feel like a huge toxic load has been lifted. i used to really hit it hard when i would fast or detox. now its much much easier, this whole terrible feeling is gone. im sure it was all the waste from the trying to pour out of my system. im also doing a lot better now. ive been mountain biking a lot. not too long ago i did not think it was possible for me to ride my bike on the streets around my house a little. im better in a lot of ways, and im much more positive.
best of luck to you
brett

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break the chains
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...double post sorry...
Posts: 245 | From connecticut, the lyme state | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
luvs2ride
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What break the chains says makes lots of sense.

You can't just keep bombarding your body endlessly with drugs without doing damage. To offset, the harsh side effects, you must take care of your body. Real care!

The average doctor doesn't have a clue how to do this. Find a doctor who does.

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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5dana8
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I got way sicker before I got better.

After 3 years tx it took many months after stoppping tx to clear the toxins & herx. Pretty much in a constant state of herx the whole time. I know not everyones herx this much, but this is how it was with me.

hope this helps

--------------------
5dana8

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shizuko
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Okay, my brain can't digest all this.

Can someone please help me understand:

1. So, did somebody figure out as to why some of you are not better even after many years of ABX?

2. Is built-up toxin the culprit?

3. So, is extensive detox along with ABX treatment the key to success?

4. Or is it more complicated than that?

I know some people are making some good progress with ABX, but obviously, not everyone falls into that group.

I am sure there are many factors that contributes, but hearing the negative experiences makes me wonder if it's worth taking ABX and experiencing herxing, or worsening before getting better stuff.

It actually makes me wonder if long-term ABX treatment is really all that effective for Lyme as LLMD's claim.

I am NOT necessarily against LLMDs or those who are for long-term ABX treatment.

Rather, I think many things about Lyme are yet still unknown even by those LLMDs.

Well, I am still new to the Lyme world, so I might have missed something that you all know. If so, please forgive me and just let me know what I have missed.

shizuko

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GiGi
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Shizuko, et al

1. So, did somebody figure out as to why some of you are not better even after many years of ABX?


Lyme Disease is a multi-factorial disease. And some of these problems do not respond to antibiotics: Parasite, molds, fungi, heavy metals, and viruses, retroviruses, need a different approach if their loads need to be reduced in order to achieve an overall beneficial effect on the system.


2. Is built-up toxin the culprit?

Yes, all the toxins and neurotoxins are the culprits. Antibiotics merely kills. It is not only the bacteria that plague us; it is their toxin output. It is all the other toxins that favor the anaerobic bacteria to survive in toxic body terrain.

Here is an incomplete list of common neurotoxins ( in order of importance ) that most living on this good earth today is bound to accumulate. Law of osmosis. We become like our surrounding. If Lyme Disease is already established, literally every one, some more some less, of these neurotoxins is present in the system:

Heavy metals:

mercury, lead, cadmium, iron, manganese and aluminum (are the most common).

Common Sources: metallic mercury vapor escapes from dental amalgam fillings (they contain about 50 % mercury, the rest is zinc, silver copper, tin and trace metals). Cadmium: car fumes, cigarette smoke , pigment in oil paint Lead: outasing from-paint, residues in earth and food chain from time when lead was used in gasoline, contaminated drinking water Aluminum: cookware, drinking water.

Biotoxins:

such as tetanus toxin, botulinum toxin (botox), ascaridin (from intestinal parasites), unspecified toxins from streptococci, staphylococci, lyme disease, clamydia, tuberculosis, fungal toxins and toxins produced by viruses.

Biotoxins are minute molecules (200-1000 kilodaltons) containing nitrogen and sulfur. They belong to a group of chemical messengers which microorganisms use to control the host�s immune system, host behaviour and the host�s eating habits.

Xenobiotics (man-made environmental toxins)

such as dioxin, formaldehyde, insecticides, wood preservatives, PCB's, pthelates

Food Preservatives , excitotoxins and cosmetics:

aspartame (diet sweeteners), MSG, many spices, food colourings, fluoride, methyl-and propyl -paraben, etc.


3. So, is extensive detox along with ABX treatment the key to success?

I have watched many people go through this disease, but I have yet to know anyone that got well on antibiotics alone.

Yes, I would say limited ABX, accompanied by a lot more.


4. Or is it more complicated than that?

From my own experience and that of many patients who are being treated by the same doctor as mine, years of antibiotics only do not heal Lyme Disease. We need a lot more than antibiotics.


In my own case, I had a total of 6-8 months of abx spread over five years while I was doing all the other detoxifying. If teeth are toxic, that is a perfect gathering place for the microbes and the Lyme bacteria and it needs to be addressed. Parasites are a huge problem.

I treated all of these microorganisms in a variety of ways, with different substances and I am totally well today and have been for a number of years. All my organs are still with me, fully functional, and I have not had an ache in a long, long time. I am just about to celebrate my 75th birthday. I am only here trying to tell.

You might want to read www.klinghardt.org and
www.neuraltherapy.com
You will find many good protocols and ideas there.

Take care.

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TerryK
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Have you considered that you and your significant other may be passing it back and forth. Just a possibility that is very real, even if your sig other is not overtly sick IMHO.
Terry

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TerryK
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shizuko wrote:
It actually makes me wonder if long-term ABX treatment is really all that effective for Lyme as LLMD's claim.

I could be wrong but I think you will find very few if any LLMD's that claim that ABX is effective for healing everyone who goes on lyme disease treatment. In fact, I've heard on here that some LLMD's state that one is never cured of chronic lyme. Doesn't mean that's true or that you can't get well or be almost 100% but once you've had it for awhile, I personally think it may be something that you will always need to watch for.

My understanding is that there is much that is unknown about lyme and it's variations (different strains). Also, it manifests differently in different people depending on their immune system and other genetic factors AND there are any number of co-infections that complicate the picture, some of which are probably not discovered yet. Some co-infections need treatment other than abx, such as babesia and possibly viruses. In other words, many variables, very little knowledge/studies/experience.

In addition, lyme disease is a difficult diagnosis and many go on treatment with negative test results because their symptoms etc. allow for a clinical diagnosis. It is proven beyond a doubt that some people who are seronegative for lyme, actually do have lyme. If your symptoms fit the picture and there is no other diagnosable, treatable illness (and sometimes even if there are), then even if your tests are negative, it makes sense to pursue empirical lyme treatment in most cases, at least in my opinion.

I hope that explains a few of the problems that are encountered with chronic lyme.
Terry

[ 12. October 2006, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: TerryK ]

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shizuko
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GiGi and Terry,

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my questions.

What you said does make sense to me.

I have had Lyme, most likely, for at least 20 years, and I just got diagnosed and started treatment this March, so I guess I will have a long way to go.

What we are dealing with is, no doubt, very complex, and I am sure we will find out more things out it as we go on.

GiGi, Happy early 75th Birthday to you! Boy, I never guessed your age from your past posts! Keep staying young and well!

shizuko

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5dana8
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I had also been sick 20 years & it took 3 years of tx to get better.

I think GiGi & the other have made some good points. About there may be other things at play here, other health issues to address..

Just wanted to say that, had I stopped tx with abx & ect.. before or durning the last 3 years I wouldn't be as well as I am now.

Yes, I have still have some progress to be made. But for me ,to reach partcial remission, it was all worth the 3 years of herxing.

--------------------
5dana8

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Radha
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could someone tell me what a kmt machine is and do you herx on it and where can i get a kmt or an ozone machine or ozone water? do these things causes herxes? i need something that wont bring on such strong herxes! thanks for any help
radha

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break the chains
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quote:
Originally posted by Radha:
could someone tell me what a kmt machine is and do you herx on it and where can i get a kmt or an ozone machine or ozone water? do these things causes herxes? i need something that wont bring on such strong herxes! thanks for any help
radha

KMT stands for Klinghardt Matrix Therapy, i think. its a machine that Dr. Klinghardt made to cure his own babesia and lyme disease. it has programs specially for lyme, bart, babs, mycoplasma, coinfections, fungi, heavy metals, parasites, mental clarity, and others. it doesnt so much kill directly as it restores balance to the system. its said to stop the bugs from reproducing. it also helps with lymph drainage, detox, and pushing medication into cells. it entrains the immune system to recognize stealth pathogens and attack them.
kmt and ozone do not really cause herxes as much as some other things, although it is possible to herx from either. when i first got the kmt, i could not even finish the programs cause i got so sick. it wasnt as bad as the herxes i would get with my other rife machines or drugs though. and its always best not to over do it on these thigns anyway.
its a little contact machine you can put in your pocket, run the wires under your clothes, and attach 4 tens electrodes. you can hide it like this and run it durring the day, or run it at night.
im going to copy a post of GIGIs. i hope she doesnt mind

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break the chains
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http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=042693#000003
quote:
Originally posted by GIGI:
"Dr.K. developed this device (KMT) for himself,
because he had active Lyme Disease himself - he lived
most of his life in the most endemic area of Germany,
the Black Forest.

He has been treating chronically ill patients for some
30 years - most of them have Lyme Disease.

Energy and physics play a major role in all of his
treatment approaches, and developing the KMT
(Klinghardt Matrix Therapy) was a natural and covering
all the aspects involved in any chronic disease was
primary. The KMT covers a huge array of microbial
infections and parasitic overloads that are usually
part of any chronic disease, and certainly in Lyme
Disease (from his experience).

There are no other studies besides his own results,
the results from his patients, and results from
patients in other parts of the world that practice his
healing methods, using the KMT, that he has and is
teaching in other parts of the world. Dr. K. has
always worked closely with researchers and scientists
from around the world.

Microcurrent is gentle and non-invasive. The
application does not result in killing, but has a
rather wide variety of other effects: The current
entrains the immune system to recognize the pathogens.
The pathogens are inhibited in their metabolic and
reproductive activity. They will quit having
babies!!!!!!!!!

The selected wave lengths increase the medication
uptake in the body area where the targeted microbes
actually live, not in other unrelated areas.

The instrument also uses pulsed subfrequencies that
trigger a specific pathogen and toxic-metal related
neurotoxin release. It also modulates the
neurotransmitters and creates vasodilation and lymph
drainage.

Here are some of my notes (random) that I have taken
over time during his teaching seminars when the KMT
(Klinghardt Matrix Therapy) was discussed:
..the healing potential of any electromagnetic device
depends on several things: one is the amount of
voltage used, the amperage used - those are the two
parameters that define a current; then it's the wave
form.

We know that if you bombard the system with a strong
current - if you put a strong current on the skin, the
body works like a Faraday cage, that means none of the
current is penetrating the body, consequently floats
on the outside of the body through the skin into the
ground or wherever the person is touching.

The art in microcurrent-technology is how to design a
current that actually doesn't flow around the body,
but through the body, and then each cell is like a
Faraday cage; that means, any current runs on the
outside of the cell, but doesn't penetrate into it,
and of course the objective with deep healing is that
you want to reach inside the cells of the body.

To do that, the current has to be very weak, has to be
in a biological range (just like when we use our ozone
equipment - it has to be in a certain biological
range). If the current is too strong, it is deflected
by the cell wall. If it has a certain biological
range, it will penetrate through the cell wall into
the cell and can reach the cell organelles.

There are wave forms where the current rises very
sharply and then drops off slowly; then there is a
pause, and it rises and it drops - all these currents
are pulsed.

If you give the body a constant current, the current
simply is deflected off the skin, travels in the skin,
and just never reaches into any deep tissue. So it
needs to be pulsed, and the rise and the pulse decide
which part of the cell it is reaching, whether it
travels inside the cell or outside the cell.

These are just some basic principles, and so, this
machine is unique - it uses the most sophisticated
harmonious frequency patterns, carrier waves, that has
these different kinds of pulse raises in it, different
kind of amperages, different kinds of voltages, that
create a synergistic, harmonious frequency pattern
that penetrates the body very easily and reaches the
cell organelles.

We know that -- there is a lot of research out now
that you can stimulate the mitochondria to create ATP
outside the cell; we know we can sedate the autonomic
nervous system, and so forth. So, some of these
functions are built in here, but on top of that, the
wave patterns are spiked with other wave patterns that
are the inhibitory frequencies for these
microorganisms.

So it is several things in one. It is stimulating the
cell's own health; the normalization and balance in
the autonomic nervous system; lymph drainage;
increases blood flow in the tissue; and at the same
time inhibiting the growth of these microorganisms.

.....

We used the microcurrent KMT for several years (it was
an earlier model than what you guys have).

Please remember that you will have die-off and that
you will have escaping heavy metals also. Nobody
living on this planet does not have some or many. So
for all the die-off, you are encouraged to have the
mop-up agents for neurotoxins in your body. They do
not disappear into thin air -- they enter your lymph
and blood stream and then need to be helped through
the system by any of these agents ---

Chlorella
Chitosan
Betasitosterol
Apple Pectin
Cholestyramine

If you do not have any of these in your body, the
neurotoxins tend to be picked up again in the gut and
absorbed, redistributed through the system. These
agents will help to take them out of the body in the
stool.

I think daily use is slightly above what is average.
We never used it that often. We always took a couple
day pause. Overloading the body is not a good idea (as
per Dr. K. and I feel the same way). I know I have
done it myself and somewhere down the line we get
miserable because the organs cannot handle it.
Anything you can do to help clear the organs is of
great value. Even with the microcurrent, that is
necessary. Some colonics are very beneficial.
Rechts-Regulat has so many functions, I can't describe
them all here.
Search for posts on it of interested.

All these mentioned were of great help to us.

KMT is a wonderful tool that I still use once in a
while even though I am totally well. I will never be
without it. One mosquito bite this summer! You are
reducing the hatching of the microbe babies -- that's
is a major function of the KMT besides everything else
it does. The microbes actually are made sterile via
the microbial inhibition frequencies. Slowly but
surely it reduces reproduction of these uninvited
guests. I have explained it in more detail in other
posts. Please read them."


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GiGi
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Breakthechains spelled it out pretty well for you.
I am off to a seminar right now - 3 days about the KMT, the matrix which is pretty much the area we are trying to clear; treatment with lasers, treatment with small ozone, etc.

If you do a search here, Dr. Klinghardt himself gave me a post which I put here about 2 months ago indicating that any herxing with KMT when treating all the microbes is not so much the die-off of microbes, but the release of heavy metals that the matrix is holding until you start treatment.

It is the metals in circulation which causes what you call a herx. I call it metals in circulation that you have to capture by the mop-up agents that I have listed more often than I can count. If you don't, the metals are settling elsewhere causing renewed troubles other places somewhere down the road. Colonics and lymph drainages are mandatory as far as Dr. K. is concerned.

It is clearer than ever, I repeat, clear as a sunny deep blue sky: where there are lyme microbes and other microbes, there are metals. And they were there all along, probably before the Lyme started to take over running the body systems. Law of osmosis adds more of the same into the whole body = if your surrounding is toxic, we eventually become as toxic as our surrounding. You will not be able to dispose of the excessive microbes (of ANY KIND) UNTIL YOU CLEAR OUT the bulk of the metals, and do something about the dental infections if you have any.

That's usually mainly their base of operation -- in the face, mouth, jaw, ears, eyes, and brain, followed by joints, followed by reproductive area.
The bugs are making certain they will survive and make sure that you can pass them on to your partner. They go where their survival is assured.
Even in the breastmilk

Take care.

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Radha
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thanks so much for the info, could someone please tell me where i can get this kmt machine for the best price? thanks
radha

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GiGi
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KMT's are available at Bio Tools Devices. 541-488-6770.

Take care.

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break the chains
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ive got two.
im selling one for $900
they are $1350 new.

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GiGi
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Breakthechains, glad you are only selling one. I will never sell ours.

Did you know that with the two resonator blocks you can run the KMT all night without attaching the electrodes to your body directly. It is a very effective application that goes right over and around your head/body while you sleep. I saw it today again at a KMT seminar where Dr. K. showed how it is done. Let me know if you are interested. You would have to get the two resonator blocks to do it. The rest is very simple. It beats sitting there in the evening hooked up where you can't make it to the refrigerator...... Do one channel after the other and get to every disease causing critter that way, while you sleep without wires on you.

Take care.

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break the chains
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yea the blocks look cool, but i have been feeling guilty about springing for them when i dont really need them. also i think it was you or someone here like scott that told me that you need to have some kind of light on to use the blocks while you sleep.
i have no problem moving around with the kmt on if i do it right. i just use a hoodie or something, put it in there, and then connect the wires to my feet or wrists. some of my pants have large pockets too and i can stick it in there, although the hoodie works best.
also i guess you dont get the microcurrent, but kind of a radiant treatment.

"where can i get a kmt or an ozone machine or ozone water?"
you can get an ozone generator from saul pressman at plasmafire, although i have a hard time recommending him right now since hes had my machine for the last 3-4 months "repairing it" he said nearly a month ago it was on is way.
i got an oxygen concentrator from ebay for 240. they also have ozone machines up on ebay now too, ones that look decent. but i would really have to research these methods myself before i started using them.
you have to make the ozone water up and drink it right away.

brett

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