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Has anyone tried this and if so, did it help with neuro issues? Doctor wants me to do a months worth while taking higher dose of the antibiotics. Posts: 90 | From NC USA | Registered: May 2002
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GiGi
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HBO did not improve my situation at all. In fact, it made it worse. With or without abx.
My doctor in general does not use it or urge patients to use it.
I am sure it depends on the individual conditions.
Hope you get some positive responses.
Take care.
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timaca
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If you do a search here at lymenet on hyperbaric oxygen therapy or HBOT, you will find some past links, for it has been discussed quite a bit recently.
I just finished my 19th out of 40 dives. I'm not sure that a month of dives will be sufficient. Usually 40 dives for 90 minutes (with a 10 minute air break) at a depth of 2.4 ATA is what is recommended for lyme.
I had a significant herx on day 12 after starting the hbot. I am not feeling well. I can only hope that this is a sign that the Bb is getting killed off.
Timaca
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kam
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I HAVE A FRIEND WHO GAVE THIS A TRY. IT DID NOT HELP HER BUT IT DID HELP THE OTHER PERSON THAT WAS DOING IT THE SAME TIME SHE WAS.
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Be prepared to herx harder more towards your later dives, but also remember it might be some time before you notice improvement after your finished with the dives.
I mean it could be months later!
It was that way for me.
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lymie tony z
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I believe this is another one of those adjunctive therapies that works for some and not others.
We don't know why yet!
If I could get it under my insurance I would most certainly give it a try especially while taking abx.
No less than 30 dives.
I believe Amy Tan utilized this regimen and I know of one other person I knew in Ohio that is using this successfully...off meds and now just one or two dives a year to maintain remission.
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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HBO treatments are in a single chamber and or a multi chamber.
Both give you 100% oxygen ( the chamber kinda looks like an MRI machine - only it is all glass).
There are soft dives as I call them - soft like saunna suit I think that you are wrapped in, I hear it's not 100% Oxygen and not as effective.
Dives for Lyme people are at 45 feet below.
PS Isn't this board amazing - you learn so much!
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timaca
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Scuba diving is not the same as a HBOT "dive." When you scuba dive you are not breathing 100% oxygen. In a HBOT chamber you are. The Bb doesn't like the high levels of oxygen, hence the hope that you are killing them off by giving the body high levels of oxygen while under pressure (2.4 ATA). The pressure allows the oxygen to penetrate more of the body tissues.
I can tell you that it is changing the cornea in my eye. I've gone from 20/15 to 20/60 in the 19 dives I've done!
Got some glasses today from my eye doctor so I can still drive to my chamber!
My eye doctor was quite fascinated by all this...he knows I have lyme...
Timaca
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What is the cost of your dives? Are you doing single chamber?
Do you live close to the chamber or are you traveling?
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oxygenbabe
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Timaca, the oxygen under pressure is oxidizing your lens which gets its glutathione only by diffusion as it has no blood vessels and so is very vulnerable to oxygen. Check out the work of Frank Giblin in animals and hyperbaric oxygen.
Close your eyes in the chamber the entire time, and you will protect your eyes much more from the oxygen, because a lot of it is diffusing across the membrane of the eye in the chamber. No hyperbaric center except New England Hyperbaric (which is now closed) ever admitted this; I talked to Chico, to Stoller's clinic in Santa Fe, and they shrugged it off, which is wrong to do.
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timaca
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Ladylee~ I drive 2+ hours to the chamber. So, I dive 4 days a week, spending Monday and Thursday nights away from home. I'm home on Wednesdays and the weekend. (Actually, I'm technically home every day of the week, just not for very long on some days!) I am grateful for a supportive family.
I dive in a multi-place chamber. If my insurance does not pay (and it likely won't), the dives will cost me $125.
The dives are going well, as far as I am used to the hood now, and don't feel claustrophopic, or that I'm too hot, etc. However, it is hard to sit for 2 hours driving, then 2 hours in the chamber. Then, you have to be low-energy for 3 hours after the dive, so you don't burn off the oxygen too fast. SO...I spend a lot of time on my rear end!
Oxygenbabe~ I think the oxygen affects the cornea, not the lens. My eye doctor measured the cornea on Wednesday, and it is thicker than ususal for my age. My vision was 20/15 before the dives started. He will measure it again when my eyes have returned to normal.
I would doubt (but I'm not sure) that closing the eyes would have much effect on keeping the oxygen from affecting the eye. This is a deep dive, and is used to treat bacterial infections...especially those of the skin. Hence the point of the deep dive is to drive the oxygen deep into the body tissues, in order to kill bacteria. Closing the eyelid won't prevent the oxygen from getting to all the tissues of the eye. This is my opinion, however, I don't really know. If I think of it, I'll ask the hyperbaric tech.
Timaca
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oxygenbabe
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Timaca, you are incorrect. Frank Giblin is a well respected researcher who has modelled (studied/induced) cataracts in animals via hyperbaric oxygen.
Hyperbaric oxygen, ie oxygen under pressure, oxidizes the lens of the eye, which cannot protect itself and only receives its glutathione via diffusion. Depending on the state of your vitreous membrane, your age, and your own glutathione status, you may be more or less vulnerable to this effect.
Giblin himself suggesting closing my eyes, and the doctor who ran New England Hyperbaric noticed a passing reference to this in the major hyperbaric medicine text and suggested to a woman in her 40's who was having your problem, as well as to me, to close our eyes. This greatly minimized the effect. The oxygen diffuses readily across the membrane of the eye, whether you are using a hood in a multichamber (which bathes you in 100% oxygen) or a monochamber, which uses 100% oxygen. The other option is to use a face mask instead, but I'm not sure that's as effective unless it is well fitted to your face.
You may also be causing shifts in the shape of the cornea by the pressure but then why don't divers have the same problem???
You are in fact oxidizing your lens and speeding the eventual problems of presbyospia and cataracts. There is a significant subset of people I have spoken with who have had permanent eye changes as a result. I for instance went from perfect vision to reading glasses and I have glare around headlights and when the sun is in a certain position, all of which I never had before. However, I've done a LOT of hyperbaric and it is a mainstay of my treamtnet for 4 years now.
I am telling you I researched this thoroughly and as strong an advocate as I am of hyperbaric oxygen therapy for lyme and many other ailments, this is one place where the hyperbaric industry is purposely willfully naive at best, and/or where there is actual malfeasance at worst. I say that because prominent folks running prominent clinics completely ignored my suggestion to let their patients know this and give them the option to close their eyes if they want to protect their eyes.
The cornea is extremely permeable. You are getting a much stronger dose of oxygen pushed into your lens at 2.4 ata with 100% oxygen. Do the research and a pubmed search and look up Frank Giblin's work and you will see this.
Good luck and hope the sessions help.
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Wow good for you and much luck with your faith in being able to do all this, I'm glad your sharing your story as I for one am looking forward to hearing about you thru your progress.
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timaca
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Oxygenbabe~ I'll look into your theory as time allows. I'm only home for a brief time each week, and that time tends to be spent with the family! Certainly, I'll mention it to the hyperbaric tech, and get his input since he is quite knowledgeable about HBOT.
The reason scuba divers don't get cornea changes (and the reason hyperbaric techs who are in the multiplace chambers don't get vision changes) is that it is the combination of the oxygen and the pressure that changes the cornea shape...not just the pressure. (Scuba divers breathe compressed air, not 100% oxygen).
The problem that I am experiencing is normal for people undergoing extended hbot dives. I was told to expect it. And was told that it would reverse. It just happened sooner than expected.
The eye doctor looked into my eye on Wednesday and said everything looked fine. I do not want eye problems because of this!! So, I trust that the eye doctor would have noticed the beginnings of problems, if they were noticable at this stage.
I will look up Frank Gliblin's work...thanks for the suggestion. I do spend about half the dive with my eyes closed...but the other half is spent doing other things.
Thanks for your input.
Ladylee~ You are welcome!
Timaca
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I have a friend after many many dives close to 100 over a period of 8 yrs or so, maybe she had more then that I'm really not sure - BUT after one of her treatment sessions (5 dives) in a 2 day period - she experienced blurred vision for almost a week, it did reverse.
A first for her.
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oxygenbabe
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Timaca, it is not a theory. I am a science writer by profession and I investigated this thoroughly. It is NOT a theory. It is simply scientific, biological fact. However, some eye changes are worth regaining your health. Believe me, I know a bunch of people whose eyes never returned to baseline after hyperbaric oxygen. It is the one thing the industry suppresses. It is a *fact*. A *fact*. What frustrates me is you can limit the damage by closing the eyes. Anybody experiencing any such eye changes should close their eyes the entire time or else use a mask in a multichamber. Nobody should double the amount of oxygen to that one organ, the eye, for no reason other than they want to keep their eyes open during a dive.
Your doctor will not understand this and your hyperbaric tech will insist its not so. That's why I so respected the doctor at New England Hyperbaric who by the way was one of the smartest ladies I ever met. If you are doubtful, you'll have to explain why the woman who was experiencing vision changes just as you describe, then began to close her eyes and did months more of sessions--her vision returned to baseline and did not change anymore. If pressure and oxygen were 'changing the shape' of the cornea (and explain how oxygen does that????) then why would her vision have reversed back to normal and not changed during months of subsequent deep dives, simply because she closed her eyes.
As to your doctor seeing evidence of early changes, that is not possible. Presybospia which occurs in those over 40, which eventually leads to cataracts, is due to oxidation of the lens simply through normal living and free radical damage. Presybospia is the early stages of a cataract. As your lens oxidizes it begins to harden, be less flexible, less able to adjust to changing input (thus you need bifocals as you get older) and eventually a film forms over it known as a cataract. In the early stages you are experiencing, you won't have a cataract, which would be the first visible sign. You are simply SPEEDING the process by which you eventually get cataracts, by creating a huge amount of oxidizing input into your lens via pressure and oxygen.
In my case, I had hyperbaric in Brewster without being told this, and damaged my eyes before I understood what was necessary. The damage is mild enough that I just take it in stride.
It is my hunch that lymies may be more susceptible to these problems as they are required to do very deep dives for many sessions; as their glutathione status is already compromised (search pubmed and you'll find a # of abstracts on borrelia oxidizing glutathione, and babesia does too; perhaps all chronic intracellular infections do); and because spirochetes like the optic nerve, its my supposition that they may damage the vitreous membrane, since so many lymies complain of floaters. The vitreous membrane is what protects the lens first and foremost from excess oxygen as it provides a barrier. If it is somewhat damaged more oxygen will reach the lens.
[ 21. October 2006, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: oxygenbabe ]
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timaca
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Thanks for your comments, Oxygenbabe. I guess I used the wrong word when I wrote "theory." Sorry, it's just the word that came to my lyme brain at that moment.
I e-mailed Dr. Giblin. I hope he chooses to answer me. I'll post his comments if he does.
I also e-mailed a friend of mine who knows a great deal about HBOT. It's what he does for a living. We'll see if he has any comments.
I sure as heck don't want damaged eyes now or in the future as a result of hbot!
Timaca
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oxygenbabe
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Here are my emails with Dr. Giblin. Just keep your eyes closed the entire time, and it will minimize damage. It won't entirely eliminate it for instance your vitreous membrane is somewhat compromised, you are over 40, your glutathione is low etc. It varies. Some folks can do a lot of hyperbaric and no eye problems and others do have eye problems.
From Dr Giblin, a few years ago, to me--he was very helpful but here is his answer so you probably would get the same answer now as he wrote then:
> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Frank J. Giblin" > > > T > > > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 5:51 PM > > > Subject: hbo, cataract, and antioxidants (fwd) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Padgaonkar, who works for me, asked me to respond to your e-mail. > > > > However, unfortunately, I don't think that I can be of much help to > > > > you. We know that hyperbaric oxygen (HBO) can cause reversible myopia, > > > > an irreversible increase in lens nuclear light scattering and, if the > > > > number of treatments is high enough, nuclear cataract (the nucleus is > > > > the central region of the lens). We think that this happens because > > > > the lens nucleus is deficient in a reducing compound called > > > > glutathione (GSH), and if GSH is below a certain level, the oxygen can > > > > cause a crosslinking of lens proteins (by bonds called disulfide > > > > bonds). Some of us have more GSH in the center of the lens than > > > > others. At this point we don't know how to prevent the effects of the > > > > hyperbaric oxygen on the lens nucleus. We don't know how to get more > > > > GSH into the center of the lens. I'm not convinced that ascorbic acid > > > > or lipoic acid would be of any benefit against HBO, but they can't > > > > hurt and are probably useful for the rest of the body. You might look > > > > into N-acetyl cysteine, which helps a cell make GSH - I plan to test > > > > this compound in my animal models. I would advise staying out of the > > > > sun for a while after the HBO treatments, since the combination of > > > > sunlight plus oxygen is not good for the lens. If there is a way to > > > > avoid having the oxygen enter through the cornea (eyes closed during > > > > treatment?), it might help (the oxygen gets to the lens indirectly > > > > thru the blood supply, but also across the cornea). > > > > > > > > Sorry that I can't be of more help. Unfortunately, if you require the > > > > HBO to treat the Lyme disease, you may have to put up with the loss of > > > > transparency in the center of the lens. I will save your e-mail > > > > address, and if we come up with anything new, I'll let you know. > > > > > > > > Frank Giblin
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well now I am concerned about attempting to get the HBO therapy. After reading everyones responses, seems like it helps but messes up your eyes. So what to do? Posts: 90 | From NC USA | Registered: May 2002
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timaca
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Oxygenbabe~ Thanks for posting Dr. Giblin's response. It will be interesting to see if he responds to my e-mail. Hopefully, he will, since he did once before to you. It will also be interesting to see if anything has changed since he wrote to you 3 years ago.
I also called my opthamologist. He is a friend of mine. I will be interested to see what his thoughts are. I did e-mail him one of Dr. Giblin's articles.
I specifically asked whether closing the eyes in a hood would make any difference or if wearing a mask would be preferable over a hood. So, we'll see if I get an answer.
lrtbc~ I would not panic about the eyes. Certainly, if you have eye troubles, or a history of cataracts, or maybe even a family history of cataracts, it would be prudent to talk with an eye doctor.
It does seem like any medical treatment has it's risks. We just have to weigh the risks with the benefits.
I can't do much antibiotics due to ongoing C. difficile. HBOT was one of the few choices available to me for lyme treatment. So, that is why I am doing it.
Timaca
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oxygenbabe
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Timaca, honestly, this is proven science, so it really is unecessary to solicit other opinions, and as I said, the industry and practitioners have a strong bias towards ignoring this information, as obviously it might stop people from seeking treatment.
You only have to reason it out that closing eyes would at least halve the amount of oxygen getting into the eye. The cornea is very permeable. Read up on the cornea. Now imagine your cornea bathed in 100% oxygen under 2.4 ata of pressure, or the equivalent of 50 feet underground/underwater, for a solid 90 minutes. A ton of oxygen is crossing the membrane and right into the eye.
To others: some have no problem with their eyes as a result of hbo. That would be because they are younger, their lens' are more flexible/less vulnerable, and their vitreous membranes in good shape. The vitreous membrane is what protects the lens above all from oxidative damage and there is research going on now about replacements for vitreous membranes
Each person has to decide for themselves. For me I have continued hyperbaric oxygen in spite of this. What angers me is that this information is easily available in the literature, and that doctors who run hyperbaric centers ignore it and put some of their patients at risk by not advising them of this risk and telling them that closing their eyes and/or using a mask will greatly reduce the risk. My eyes changed very quickly in my first 30 dives in Brewster when I sat with a hood and watched movies, my eyes open all the time. After 30 dives I couldn't drive to the center anymore as I had such 'myopia', supposedly reversible. Then as that corrected, after stopping dives, I developed presybospia out of nowhere and had to use reading glasses and have ever since. In addition, I feel that once that oxidative damage starts to the lens, it will be even more vulnerable to future treatments.
Best to err on the side of caution. Meditate with eyes closed during sessions.
As for c. dificile--timaca, go buy Kelly Karpa's Bacteria for Breakfast. She cured her son of c. dificile. It takes antibiotics and then VSL#3, tons of probiotics in high doses.
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timaca
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Here is the essence of Dr. Giblin's reply to me. I am very grateful for people like him who reply:
He hopes my vision changes are due to myopia, which is reversible.
He recommends my eyes be examined by an opthamologist, if they haven't been already. (they were)
HBO treatments can induce loss of transparency in the center of the lens, which is known as the lens nucleus. In some cases, a nuclear cataract can be induced, but this occurs after many dives (daily treatments for a year). It is less likely to occur in people younger than 50.
It does not matter how the oxygen is delivered to the patient, the lens of the eye is still affected. He has not found any antioxidant that helps to prevent nuclear opacity in experimental animals.
Every person has to weigh the risk/benefit of any given treatment. If he had a serious problem that HBO could correct, he would risk developing a nuclear cataract, since cataract surgery is so advanced and everyone develops cataracts if they live long enough.
SO....that was his reply. It does put my mind at ease.
Oxygenbabe, at what age did you require reading glasses?
I don't mind inquiring of others (like the HBOT people that I know and my eye doctor). The more I learn and can share, the better off we all are. I do feel very confident that Dr. Giblin knows his subject matter well, and I'm grateful that you gave me his name. He is kind and generous to share his knowledge with me. I hope others here find his information useful.
I am also very fortunate to be corresponding with the C. diff expert in the country with regard to my C. diff issues. She is another angel. So..we'll see what she comes up with next. We were so very close to having me over it...and I'm grateful that she is hanging in there with me.
Timaca
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oxygenbabe
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Timaca, I recommend you err on the side of caution and keep your eyes closed the entire time. Is there any significant reason not to???? You will reduce the amount of oxygen delivered to the eye by a significant amount.
I agree with him about the eyes which is why I continue with HBO though in very conservative doses (mild chamber, an hour once a week).
Please look at Kelly Karpa's book. Her son had relapsing c. dificile for many years.
Good luck.
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timaca
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Hi Oxygenbabe~ I do keep my eyes closed for part of the time while in the chamber. If I were convinced that I needed to keep them closed the whole time I would. I am not convinced that I need to. I spoke with my opthamologist today (and he has no ties to the hyperbaric industry), he said that the lens is primarily oxygenated from within the body, not through the cornea, so it really wouldn't help to keep my eyes closed. At least, of course, as far as the lens is concerned. This is his opinion, but he is a good opthamologist, and well respected in my town. He thought my lens looked appropriate for someone my age.
He is going to read what I sent him, and perhaps do a bit of research on his own, and get back to me if he has any other thoughts.
I am comfortable with my C. diff doctor. She is one of the top C. diff experts in the country, if not THE C. diff expert in the country. She (bless her heart) called me today, and we are going to try another approach. My guess is she knows more than any book written by any lay person. I'm glad it worked for Kelly on her son, because this is one awful GI problem! And yes, I have done LOTS of probiotics. LOTS.
Thanks for your wishes of good luck. I need all I can get!
I am SO VERY grateful for doctors who care enough to talk to me on a SUNDAY! There are good doctors out there!!!
Timaca
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oxygenbabe
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Yes you are right except not under conditions of 100% oxygen (ambient oxygen is around 20%) and at the equivalent of 50 feet of extra pressure. Under those extraordinary conditions you are pushing a great deal of oxygen into the lens. So your opthamalogist knows nothing about hyperbaric.
Everybody takes their own risks. You are suffering with c. dificile but I do not understand why you're not at least interested in reading a book by a pharmacist who cured her son of it when antibiotics alone failed. Or why, if you are worried about your eyes, you don't take extra precautions that would not do you any harm. Each to his own.
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Has anyone tried this and if so, did it help with neuro issues? Doctor wants me to do a months worth while taking higher dose of the antibiotics.
Hi there,
You have to weigh your gains. Lyme is a progressive disease which you are obviously not responding to the conventional therapies. HBOT may help you jump that hurdle. Also, If I were you I would discuss your concern with the referring LLMD.
If you send me your email address I will send you a recent article on HBOT and a powerpoint presentation that I am working on.
If you would like me to put you in contact with a few people that have done the therapy I can manage that as well.
I have been offering the sessions for two years now and so far the issues with the corneal have all been transient, Everyone is different though.
Very best Regards,
Julia Sudylo RN Certified Hyperbaric Technician
-------------------- Please consult your LLMD before making any changes to your treatment regimen. Posts: 641 | From NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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oxygenbabe
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You're right Julia, many people have no problem. But when I see someone reporting 'reversible myopia' early in a course of dives, I believe they are vulnerable to eye changes/damage and they should keep their eyes closed. That's how the changes first manifest--as reversible myopia.
I am still a big fan of hbo. It just has its risks as all therapies do. They are relatively small considering its benefits but they should be addressed openly.
Good luck to all.
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timaca
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Hi oxygenbabe~ Thanks for your continued input.
While my opthamologist knows much or little about HBO and the lens remains to be seen. However, I did ask Dr. Giblin specifically about hood vs. mask and eyes open vs. eyes shut and he replied: "I don't think it matters how the HBO is delivered to the patient. It is still going to create potential problems for the center of the lens, which is not well designed to defend against oxygen." Dr. Giblin does know a great deal about HBO.
I will spend some time, as I do now, with my eyes shut. This does make for a quiet place to pray and meditate! And maybe, just maybe, it will protect my eyes a bit more too!
With regard to Kelly Karpa's book. As with lyme, what works for one person with regard to C. diff, does not often work for another. It is very trial and error. Believe me, I also spend time on the C. diff support forum too. (What did you do this weekend? I spent time reading on a diarrhea support forum! )
The GI doctor who is helping me is very well versed in C. diff and is at a GI conference this weekend. What she is proposing that I do is the latest and the most current research available in the area. I hardly feel that I can suggest something contrary to what she is so graciously offering to me.
However, if this fails, I will look into the book. I did post about it on the C. diff forum, and I'm sure I'll get some replies. My guess is...it worked for some, and not for others. Just like lyme treatment.
One thing that I have noticed in all this, is that there is not a GI doc around who would say that I don't still have C. diff, inspite of the massive amounts of antibiotics I've taken for it. Yet there are plenty of docs (IDSA) that would say I could not possibly still have lyme due to the massive amount of antibiotics I've had for lyme. The difference? There is a valid test for C. diff. There is not one for lyme.
Timaca
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oxygenbabe
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Timaca, it is your eyes, not mine. If I were having eye changes, and I knew that a large amount of oxygen was also crossing the permeable cornea under pressure, I would close my eyes. They are my only set of eyes. I would err on the side of protecting them. That's me.
If you can't get rid of C. dificile, your body is not recgonizing it properly. That was the situation with Kelly Karpa's son. Anyway, adding in VSL#3 after a round of vancomycin finally worked. The hundreds of billions of probiotics (strongest available) secrete substances that inhibit c. dificile.
Again, if I had major c. dificile and had been on tons of antibiotics, I would look for a solution that was pro-biotic (pro life) especially if I kenw it worked for a boy who had years of c. dificile.
That's me, again.
I don't rely on doctors to guide me, though. I guide them and we share responsibility. Those are the only kind of doctors I choose these days. If I suggest something that is research-based and logical to my doctor, and they are not the kind of doctor that listens thoughtfully and agrees to try it after making sure it won't harm me, I don't want that doctor. I don't consider doctors 'gracious' if a suggestion I make to them is considered some kind of insult or offense. They learn from me and I learn from them. I ask their advice, and they listen to my suggestions. We work together. No doctor is gracious if gracious means they do it their way on my body, no matter how much extra time or attention they give me.
That's me, again.
We are different. I've done my best to help you in every way I can with as much information and advice as possible. Good luck.
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timaca
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posted
I checked with the hyperbaric technician with regard to the discussion in this thread. He has done dives on over 300 patients and has never had anyone report permanent visual impairment.
He states that visual changes occur with both the hood and the mask. It does not matter if the eye is in contact with the oxygen or not.
Another, very well versed hyperbaric person told me the same thing.
This is also what Dr. Giblin stated.
The Hyperbaric Medicine Practice Book by Dr. Kindwall states (1) visual changes are due to changes in the shape of the lens, not the cornea (2) A study by Lyne determined that people who started with clear lens did not develop cataracts with HBOT; People who had cataracts at the start of therapy did not have the opacities grow more extensive during therapy nor did they get worse during a follow up that ranged from 6 months to 2 years. (3) In a Swedish study, people who dove over 150 times in a 4 month period developed cataracts. 3 people developed cataracts at the 150-200 treatment and 11 developed cataracts between 200 and 800 treatments. (4) Data suggests that all lenticular changes should be reversible with fewer than 75 hyperbaric treatments.
SO....that is what I've learned. It has been very interesting. Thanks for the discussion.
Oxygenbabe~ I, like you, discuss things with my doctor. The suggestion that she came up with was AFTER I wasn't so positive about the first idea. It is nice to have doctors that give and take and work with us, is it not?
I guess I misrepresented my C. diff treatment. Yes, I've been on massive amounts of antibiotics for it. Also massive amounts of probiotics, both in the form of beneficial yeast and beneficial bacteria...and those in the form of pills, liquids (like Bio K) and yogurt.
My stool, when examined, comes back with "heavy normal flora" yet I still have C. diff toxins.
My GI tract has been the subject of CME for 20 GI doctors on the subject of C. diff. They discussed my situation in detail and came up with "we don't know why she hasn't been able to clear the C. diff."
My cardiologist, who I saw today was equally puzzled. If nothing else, doctors are quite fascinated by it all.
I will at some point take at look at the book....but I doubt it offers anything I haven't already tried. I do appreciate the suggestion though.
Take care....Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
You know best, Timaca. Let us know a few months after your dives have ended how your eyes are. If you get really desperate with the c. dificile you can do fecal implants. It apparently works. Karpa's book discusses it.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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timaca
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6911
posted
Oxygenbabe~ I will most certainly keep you posted. The stool transfer is what the doctor suggested first...that I replied "can you think of something else first?"
I can assure you, it made my cardiologist's day today when I told him about that. His reply "I always learn something new from you, everytime I see you. I can assure you that I will remember the fecal transfer for a long, long time!" (Great, huh?)
Funny how a thread can go from HBO to fecal tranfers, huh?
Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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