posted
I found these articles and figured I'd share them and see what you all think. It's kind of like ingested rife machine! Has anyone tried this? I'm still trying to figure out where to get the food grade hydrogen peroxide.
My MD/ND wants me to try this therapy but I'm still considering other avenues because when I did a search on this site it seemed that some people were not pleased with how they reacted.
I'd love to hear what others have to say,,,
Ashley Posts: 77 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2006
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Anyone who tries either IV or oral hydrogen peroxide therapy should have their heads examined!
This therapy will probably kill you!
one way or another zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Hi zman--while agree with many on this site that any therapy undertaken should be under supervision of a doctor, along with a good deal of research by the patient, I do not think that people looking for alternative therapies need to have their heads examined.
I understand that most forum members have very strong views about their own health and how to get well, but I find caution and explanations helpful, not unfounded negativity.
If you have some information about the negative side effects of hydrogen peroxide therapy, I would love ot hear it because it will help me make an informed decision about which protocol I will follow. Telling me I need to see a shrink, however, is not particularly helpful.
Thank you, Ashley
Posts: 77 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2006
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
OK Ashley...I won't refer you to a shrink>>>
You said you already did a search on the subject...so I doubt I could elaborate on what you've previously gleaned from this website.
Don't see a shrink....
Just don't do it cuz it would be stupid!
How's that for a concise opinion.
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I have had IV hydrogen peroxide treatments maybe 10 times. They are powerful immune boosters, by oxygenating the blood. When done correctly, they are not dangerous. I felt better after each treatment, maybe for a few hours to a day.
However, they were a costly supportive treatment that I did not continue because I could not see the direct benefits. The longer lasting benefits.
It is a standard practice for chronically ill people by alternative doctors. My PCP, an MD, provides them.
I feel the ozone therapy I am doing now is showing more benefits, for me.
At the same time, while having improved significantly, I am still a pretty sick puppy. It's a process and will take a lot more time.
Also, in my opinion, we really dont know much except by clinical example, of how these bugs live and die in the body. If someone wants to provide research based information in support of alternative treatments, which will help me understand the mechanisms, i would be very interested.
For example, I am going to try bee sting therapy in a month because some of the science is rather compelling about its ability to reduce pain, and that the bee venom can kill the spirochetes.
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Anybody who categorically rejects most alternative therapies is severely limiting their chance for success against Lyme.
Let's put this in perspective:
In the year 2000, the mistakes made in the medical profession were the third leading cause of death in the U.S. More recent statistics indicate that these mistakes are now THE leading cause of death, ahead of cancer and heart disease and all the rest ....
And yet we are supposed to fear the alternative approaches MORE than we fear mainstream medicine? I don't think so.
So, you folks willing to try new things are a real inspiration to many of us here on the board. Go for it!
(And then let us all know your personal results, which may take awhile to assess, given this crazy disease process.)
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Won't work. Bb is H2O2 resistant.
Nice try though.
Normally we make H2O2 inside our cells all the time and normally it does knock out MOST pathogens.
But our cells can't/shouldn't STAY acidic or they will die...
So in steps the antioxidant enzymes to counter this.
Bb is protected via Mn and Zn.
Here are a couple of my files:
Bb resists destruction by H2O2
It appears that B burgdorferi may have its own approach to fighting back.
John T. Skare, PhD,[11] of Texas A&M University Health Science Center, College Station, examined one such battle tactic Borrelia use against humans: resisting oxidative stress.
(Oxidative stress is the use of hydrogen peroxide, superoxide, and other active oxygen radicals to kill invading organisms.)
Dr. Skare's group has examined a gene called BB0647 to see what role it may play in resisting oxidative stress. Originally, this gene was thought to resemble a ferric uptake regulator, or Fur.
Oddly enough, though, Borrelia don't require iron. This puzzling finding prompted Dr. Skare to search databases for genes that more closely resemble BB0647.
He found that the most homologous gene is one that produces a peroxide regulatory protein, PerR. This protein controls the expression of catalases and peroxidases, enzymes that play a major role in defending cells against oxidative stress.
To confirm these findings, Dr. Skare showed that B burgdorferi containing an active form of the BB0647 gene was indeed able to resist hydrogen peroxide, around 3000 times better than a strain containing a mutated form of the gene.
CONCLUSIONS: In patients with Erythema migrans, the decreased capability to reduce lipid superoxidants leads to maintaining a high concentration of membrane lipid peroxidation products.
PMID: 11687735
Mol Microbiol. 2006 Jan;59(2):475-86.
Borrelia burgdorferi bb0728 encodes a coenzyme A disulphide reductase whose function suggests a role in intracellular redox and the oxidative stress response.
Boylan JA, Hummel CS, Benoit S, Garcia-Lara J, Treglown-Downey J, Crane EJ 3rd, Gherardini FC.
Laboratory of Zoonotic Pathogens, Rocky Mountain Laboratories, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, National Institutes of Health, Hamilton, MT, USA.
The cellular responses of Borrelia burgdorferiTo reactive oxygen species (ROS) encountered during the different stages of its infective cycle are poorly understood.
Few enzymes responsible for protecting proteins, DNA/RNA and lipids from damage by ROS have been identified and characterized.
Data presented here suggest that bb0728 encodes an enzyme involved in this process. Biochemical analyses on purified recombinant BB0728 indicated that it functioned as a coenzyme A disulphide reductase (CoADR) (specific activity approximately 26 units per mg of protein).
This enzyme was specific for coenzyme A (CoA) disulphide,
required NADH
and had no significant activity against other disulphides, such as oxidized glutathione or thioredoxin.
The high intracellular concentration of reduced CoA (CoASH) in B. burgdorferi cells ( approximately 1 mM) and absence of glutathione suggest that CoA is the major low-molecular-weight thiol in this spirochete.
Interestingly, CoASH was able to reduce H(2)O(2) and be regenerated by CoADR suggesting one role for the system may be to protect B. burgdorferi from ROS.
Further, mobility-shift assays and transcriptional fusion data indicated that bb0728 was positively regulated by the Borrelia oxidative stress response regulator, BosR. Taken together, these data suggest a role for BB0728 in intracellular redox and the oxidative stress response in B. burgdorferi.
PMID: 16390443
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
As Jeff said IV hydrogen peroxide is commonly used by many alternative docs. Hubby had 29 of these IV's. Do not feel they were worth the money. The patients I have known who seemed to benefit the most from these treatments were ones who had chronic fatigue from viral causes.
Hydrogen peroxide is naturally produced in the body in small quantities.
As for the oral hydrogen peroxide -- have read this can be effective for Candida. Is available in larger health food stores.
Dr J (author of Beating Lyme Disease Using Alternative Medicine) utilizes hydrogen peroxide in the bath. Buy the regular brown bottles at any drug store. Do believe this is absorbed thru the skin. Hubby had really bad reactions (seizure-like episodes) in the tub about 20 minutes in. If you do this try a couple of ounces to start -- goal was 2 or 3 (16 oz) bottles if I remember correctly.
Looked it up in the book -- page 238. Detox Bath #1 -- Pain Reliever Bath
4 cups Epsom Salts 32 -64 oz Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) 2 Tablespoons freshly grated Ginger (Wrap in a piece of cloth or put in teaball)
Add to warm bath water. Soak for at least 20 minutes.
Recommended daily for at least 7 consecutive days and then as needed -- can continue daily.
As with any treatment start slow -- use less than suggested amounts and maybe only stay in the bath 5 or 10 minutes until you see how you respond.
Hubby did the IV and the bath treatments both before he had any antibiotics. Do not believe these treatments will kill Lyme, but can help with viral component and may provide symptom relief.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
I agree with what Bea said that IV Hydrogen Peroxide might be valuable for killing off some of the other pathogens, such as viruses or whatever.
I cannot speak from personal experience - I have not used them.
However, my sister-in-law who suffers from fibromyalgia (I know, could be Lyme but doesn't seem to be) said that IV Hydrogen Peroxide was one of the best things she has ever used to combat fatigue. So perhaps it was working on a virus, and many of us Lyme patients have a soup of pathogens including viruses and mycoplasmas.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
For anyone who gets seasonal allergies I strongly recommend it. My allergies (on top of everything else) put me completely out of action. I did another IV last week. I sneezed about 10 times and the congestion started clearing instantly.
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Thanks Marnie for the information...but I doubt if they'll seriously read it...
I doubt they even care...
They just want to keep this thread going to confuse the issues...as people of their ilk are want to do...soooo
I shall no longer contribute to this thread...
enjoy! TATA for now....zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
We observed cyst formation in the presence of extreme pH values, and at high temperature, but
the best production of cystic forms was observed in the presence of H2O2.
PMID: 14961976 (APMIS. 2004 Jan;112(1):57-62.)
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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The H2O2 treatment if done correctly (slow) becomes H2O (water) and Oxygen. The Oxygen being the therapeutic agent. None of the above to my knowledge is dangerous.
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Yeah right texas "Jaybird"....
and you called ME ignorant!
Falling down in front of a bus to my knowledge is'nt dangerous either....
After all they do have brakes!!!
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
consider when you use it topically on your body,that, what you see it doing on the outside of your body, its doing to the inside,first to the walls of the venous tree.
true, the concentration used is a lot lower, maybe an order of magnitude lower, i think, but its still doing its 'job.'
a convienent omission from websites of those forms describing teh side-effects; ya know, the forms one signs at the very last minute,just when one is sitting in teh recliner chair, the staff person on the three-legged stool,tearing away the aluminu-wrap for the alcohol swab, the bag is on the pole, and your looking at the nice red butterfly needle--the short thin one, that doesn't evoke halloween primal screams like the long,'big' needles might evoke?
do you have a permanent scar on a hand or arm, after applying hydr. peroxide to a wound, or some other lesion of the skin? if so, the hydr.peroxide likely did it.
enough sessions of i.v. h202, and, i think,you will have sclerosed at least a good part of your venous tree, and if it goes there, the arterial tree.
h2o2 is a powerful oxidant.
true, it will kill susceptible pathogens,at least in teh venous and arterial blood, and you will get a bag of anti-oxidants immediately afterwards to help quell oxidizing effect of the hyd. peroxide.
maybe ozone, which is also an oxidant...?
if i were to do this, i will have made sure that i have passed any, every,and all meds.,etc., prescriptive, and otc, out of my system, and i'd give it at least 5-7 days to have cleared from my body, for fear of interaction of this with medicines, and/or interaction of effects of the two; of doing 'night-night,'into the hereafter, with all the rights and priveleges appertaining thereunto....
just some musing....
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Bio-oxidative medicine is the addition of oxygen directly to the tissues of the body in the form of singlet oxygen (lone oxygen atoms) in a highly reactive state. To more fully understand the chemistry involved, review: Bio-oxidative Medicine.
In living systems oxygen (as O2) is transported by hemoglobin, a protein found in red blood cells. This is a highly efficient way of conducting oxygen from the lungs to the tissues of the body and insuring it does not react with anything along the way. Because it is bound by hemoglobin, it is unable to react to anything else until it is released by the hemoglobin (which then picks up carbon dioxide and transports it to the lungs).
In bio-oxidative medicine, oxygen is introduced directly into the body as hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) or as ozone (O3). Although ozone is used safely and with great benefit throughout Europe and in many other parts of the world, the medical establishment in the United States refuses to recognize it as a valid therapy and actively persecutes doctors who use it. Luckily, hydrogen peroxide is not treated in this way, even though it is an equally powerful oxidative approach.
The chemical reaction looks like this:
H2O2 _ H2O + O-
This is chemical shorthand to indicate that in the body, hydrogen peroxide is converted to water and singlet oxygen. This singlet oxygen located at the end of this reaction is a powerful oxidizing agent. It is the active agent in hydrogen peroxide therapy.
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
DUDE from humble...
It does'nt matter HOW many "research looking" articles you post on this subject....
It's still dangerous, deadly and plain stupid!
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by lymie tony z: It's still dangerous, deadly and plain stupid! zman
This guy is a Dr. Are you a Dr.? Why in Gods name should we listen to you over a Dr.?
This coming from someone who states MRSA is only in hospitals whilst the MRSA epidemic spreads. Way to go there Tony. Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I trust old farts. There is a group of them in town and they all trust this other old fart who keeps them in h2o2 35% foof grade. we all sip and swear by it. Knocks out air hunger, and more. No action against Bb.
quai
-------------------- "In spite of the ever increasing cost of living, it remains quite popular" S. Shackel Posts: 87 | From walla walla wa | Registered: Dec 2005
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