hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
I would just like to write an update here for the ones who are interested in herbal/ natural treatments.
I continue to be practically symptom-free from lyme or co-infections. I still have a long way to go to be able to be without lyme killers, but I feel I'm on the right way, as it looks I'm improving steadily in the last 7 months.
My last symptoms seem to be in fact 'herxes', as they come only AFTER herbs/ supplements, to fade a few hours after. These 'symptoms' are light chills (but not everyday, fortunately!), sometimes some arthritic pains (not often though), fatigue and some lung pressure.
Lung pressure is my strongest herx for the moment. This herx though comes now not after lyme killers, but after chelators. Before it came after both. If I'm on lyme killers, but not on chelators, I feel nothing on my lungs. So I'm not sure what I feel in my lungs is lyme, but it seems to be more a metal problem.
Fatigue comes only after chelators, and not always. If not on chelation, fatigue is zero. It was one of the last lyme symptoms to go. Now I consider that it's more a chelation symptom. If I chelate, it's difficult to cycle, mostly due to lack of breath. But on chelation free days, I cycle like before lyme.
I discovered the noise I heard for months and months (came and went, but not often) was not real, but it was also a sort of tinnitus. I discovered it was a tinnitus because I dont' have it anymore for the last 2-3 weeks. I start to miss it!!!
It's funny that I still discover some lyme symptoms only when they vanish. I have the impression that when the heavy-duty symptoms fade, I 'discover' that I have had many minor symptoms which I ignored before, because they felt like 'minor'.
Like brain fog, when it's very light, we only know we had that when the brain gets finally clear. And so on.
Metal 'chelators' are: - 4 drops NDF (about 3 days on, 4 days off) - chlorella (loads), Chitosan
Eletro magnetic current (KMT): - not in use for the moment
And the supportive things like: - milk thistle, magnesium, iron, minerals, enzymes, propolis, beet root, lemon, flaxseed oil etc.
I had a major metal release some weeks ago, that I feel it started with a sort of EFT tapping. That was an amazing experience. I knew it was metals pouring, because I now recognize my metal poisoning symptoms. And these symptoms faded (or diminished) after chlorella.
Metals poured and 'caused' a lot of pain in certain joints (the first ones to have been affected with lyme-arthritis last year), even though by that time, my arthritic pains had been zero for months !! I knew I had lyme there, because everytime I stopped andrographis, the arthritic pains returned.
I'm now feel confident that lyme can be healed. I'm not anymore scared for my life as I was in the beginning of the year. Nor for my daughter.
She is also symptom free, very energetic (too much sometimes!!), so I'm convinced that Buhner's herbs plus Dr. K's approach worked at least for us both.
I feel I'm now in the middle of a 'chelation' journey, more than a lyme journey. My worst symptoms are result from chelation as they come only after chelators. I feel like I'm now dealing with lyme on a 'maintenance' level, but I'm mainly concentrated on treating metals.
I feel I'm also free from co-infections, at least for the last months. The metal problem, I'm now a true believer it IS a REAL problem. I still can't say it's a problem that will make me free from lyme (because I'm in the middle of the journey), but I can say for sure that free metals in the blood cause the most awful symptoms one can imagine!!
My skin is now not only soft (I have no memory of my skin being so soft ever), but it's even changing tones (from darker tones on my feet and hands to very clear). I atrribute that to chelation.
If anyone relate to my experience, I would love to know!
That's all for the moment. Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Thanks very much, Selma!
It's always great to hear ongoing success stories!
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Thanks very much for whats helping with you
I would like to ask a question: What is NDF?
And also what kind of cats claw are you taking?
Take care and good luck on your contined good health
p.s Thanks again. I love to hear success storys
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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I'm also a memeber of the Buhner forum but can't seem to find a way to post on it, so I'll respond to you here.
I think it's wonderful how well you've been doing and I can't wait to start the protocol myself (I've just ordered the products). It's so good to hear how well they're working for you.
Thanks for sharing,
Ashley Posts: 77 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2006
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
Thank you for sharing. I'm considering the Buhner protocol myself.
Has anyone done Buhner for Bartonella? I have his book, but a friend who is using his Bartonella recommendations is not having much luck. I need help for Bartonella because I can't take the medications for it right now.
Thanks, Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
As you well know, I can relate with your experience. My journey to wellness was very much the same. Except I had to do it longer and more intense - after all I was able to collect metals for twice as long as you were because I am more than twice your age, I am sure.
I am convinced without a doubt, and so is Dr. K. who taught me all of this, that we cannot eliminate Lyme from the body to be well again unless we recognize the destructiveness of the heavy metals and work on any dental infections.
I am so happy for you, Selma. It is a totally new life when this metal load has been lightened.
It's nice to know that even Dr. B. and Dr. H. (ILADS) are now openly talking about the heavy metal problems involved in this disease.
Thank you for your update, Selma. Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Fantastic to hear! And inspiring for the rest of us. Thanks for cheering me up.
Continued good health!
Posts: 30 | From CA | Registered: Oct 2006
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Selma,
I'm so happy for you!! I'm printing this for my doctor. He has chosen not to actively chelate me for the moment I believe because any aggressive treatment brings on so much joint pain.
I'm doing very well but I'm impatient. I want to be rid of these aliens in my body.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Guys, I'm not yet in remission nor cured. I still take andrographis, which is a potent killer, and still have arthritis back if I stop andro!
And I forgot to say I'm on a diet too! No allergens. I know this is important NOW, because I sometimes go off my diet (when I eat in restaurants) and then will some fatigue coming back, specially after meals.
The diet was ART tested, it just confirmed my feelings concerning milk products. Wheat was though a total surprise for me.
I started to have an eventual glass of wine here and there, though
Yesterday, I took 2 whole glasses at dinner, but I try to keep my maximum at one glass a week. It's getting difficult though, specially because I'm going out more often.
DANA: NDF I use is called NDF-Plus. I think it's the same brand as NDF-Plus from Bioray, just google it. I buy it here in Europe, so the name Bioray is not on the label, but it seems to be the same thing.
Cat's claw from Raintree is the one that worked best for me. I just started recently on the PC-Samento, but only on 2 drops. No herxes with it. The drops were ART tested to help with lung symptoms.
ASHLEY: to post on any yahoo forum you have to click on the right upper side 'start topic'. To reply to a topic/ message, just click on the message, and then click on Reply at the upper left corner.
Just start slowly, one herb at a time. Good luck!
JILL: I seem to have had bart, but didn't have symptoms (that I knew). I mean, I had babesia too, and some symptoms overlap. Babesia symptoms, I had tons. I was ART tested positive for bart, and it disappeared along the way with babesia altogether.
I believe my last babesia (/Bart?) symptoms finally faded after Pc-noni and KMT sessions. I used KMT against bartonella too, but not much. Sorry I can't help you more.
GIGI & LUVS: I am still in a long way to get rid of metals. My maximum NDF dose is only 4 drops a day, I tried once 5 drops and was knocked down.
I start to really think that metals were in my joints, because of the experience I had and am having. I was without pain if I took lyme killers, but if I stopped them, I got the pains back rather fast. So lyme was there still, I knew it.
But I didn't herx arthritis anymore after lyme killers for many many months until the day I had that awful metal release suddenly (after the EFT sentences).
The major metal release pain was awful, it was acute pain, different from herxes, and the metal symptoms came together (liver pain, palpitations, lung pressure, headache etc). They decreased with loads of chlorella but increased again after chlorella effect passed. I am sure metals were pouring out of my joints!
The day after that major release, I re-started to have arthritic herxes after lyme killers AGAIN!! What a surprise! The herx pattern was clear. I stopped all chelators, and the arthritic herxes came after herbs, exactly like it happened before, when I had had such herxes. This means MANY months ago (back in January, if I'm not mistaken!!).
The only explanation I find is Gigi's explanation: that borrelia was hiding with metals OR that metals avoided the action of lyme killers! Or both. Andro was keeping symptom to zero, but borrelia was still living there.
It takes me time to believe on this symbiotic relation between metals and borrelia. I'm still trying to digest the stuff. It seems so unbelievable.
I'm also glad that things are going better and better, but I'm still far from healed. I'm on a metal cleansing day, and feel light pain on certain joints at this very moment.
Thank you all for your posts too!
Have a good night! Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
If you were a bug/microbe, and you needed to immunosuppress your host in order to better colonize it/him/her and live on...and get passed on...so as to survive and flourish, how would you do it? You wouldn't kill your host, in most cases, unless you could for instance be spread by coughing while the host was just getting sick...
You might sequester immunosuppressive heavy metals. You might even cause your host to retain more of them than usual.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Hi Oxygenbabe,
Yes, you do seem to be right, but then why was mercury used to kill bugs before? Mercury is poisonous to many bacteries too.
I think someone talked about that before, but I was probably in my old days of brain fog and I simply don't remember the explanation....
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Hi Selma, Congratulations on your continuing recovery! That is GREAT news, and provides some hope to me, since I can't take ABX.
I just read up on your NDF-Plus, hoping I could try it, since I am not progressing like you are. I already take most of the Buhner Protocol (but, I can't take Andrographis for more than 3 days at a time - it raised my BP and made my MCS much worse).
I've been on much higher Samento dosage than you for over 3 years now, plus Cumanda, with much herxing, but very little improvement, and a worsening of my Arthritis in my lumbar spine.
I was pleased to see it says NDF is safe even if you still have amalgams, since I am not financially able to replace them, plus I cannot find a dentist who will touch me with 3 regurgitating heart valves and no ABX I can take during dental work. However, I saw something else in the info on NDF that I fear will exclude me.
It says NDF will remove prescription drugs! This makes sense, since they are toxic after all. I am on 4 prescriptions, and cannot function without them. In addition, 2 of them would cause dangerous withdrawl if suddenly removed. This is very disappointing.
I am guessing you are not taking any drugs then? Did your doctor say anything to you about this? I would sure like to be able to add this product to my chlorella for detox.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Thanks hardynaka
for answering my questions about
the NDF and cats claw
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Congrats Selma. Keep it up. You will get there, eventually.
I too am doing well these days, for the most part, on herbs only, along with Vitamin E, B's, and lots of C, in C-Salt form.
I STILL have a couple amalgams to get out, which hope to do soon. Just too busy right now as always in the fall. Except last fall when I was so sick from Lyme that I could hardly function.
I had one of my teeth surgically removed last month, and it was infected for a few weeks. Found out, finally, that the dentist left something in there, that was sharp and worked its way out. I must have swallowed it in my sleep last week, as all of a sudden I noticed it was gone. SO don't know if it was a piece of tooth, or metal, or what.
I even went on doxy for three days, which helped, for the pain on my trip to Texas. Would have taken it longer, but forgot to take the bottle with me.
It IS better now though. Next the other amalgams out, then an upper partial plate.
I am not doing any chelating as you call it. Just following Buhner's recommended core protocol, PLUS some of his other protocols and have dropped the Andrographis and still on the Coptis FOR NOW. I am up to one (1) "00" size capsule of Coptis, three times a day now.
But I am at least 50 to 100 times better than I was a year ago. I do have differences in days, but overall much better. Some days I actually feel great. Other days fairly good.
I just had a Tetenus shot and a pneumonia shot this past week. Will probably get my annual flu shot in a week or two. They are free now, since on medicare.
And with my wife working as a checker at a grocery store and bringing bugs home all the time, it is cheap insurance.
I have been fighting her current bug of sounding like she is going to die coughing for the past three weeks. I think my 3 to 4 thousand mg of Vitamin C every day has been very helpful in that department.
Keep us posted in the future on your progress. I will try to do the same, though I don't get here very often these days. Maybe more in the winter.
hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Hi KLUTZO, you know that I always think about you? I do feel one can get out of this hell of a disease only with herbs NOW! But it maybe different from person to person, I was never an atibiotic lover anyway....
I took lots of cats claw (let's say, never in loads as it messes with my liver, but took it for a long time, since December last year). Since yesterday, I'm on a single capsule a day. I don't feel the difference with 2, so I'll keep it low like this from now on, plus the 2 drops of Samento.
It's funny you say you herxed a lot but didn't improve... I wonder why? Could it be that the bugs are protected with these metals??
Some people have problems with andro, it's a strong herb. Hope you're not allergic to it. For your information, I never really felt better with more than 3 andro a day. The only time I tried to increase its dose, I got a herx/ reaction (I was taking it together with artemisinin) that sent me to emergency.
So since the beginning (in January), my perfect dose was 3 a day, and nothing more.
No, I don't take any prescription drugs.
I started 'chelating' first only with chlorella (intestines and blood cleansing), then went through Phospholipid Exchange (about 3-4 bottles), rested, now I'm on this NDF-Plus for a while. Both caused me strong (REAL STRONG!) reaction, so I started very slow. I think if I couldn't take loads of chlorella, I would never attempt to do any metal cleasing.
Reactions were related to chest/ heart, liver, head, breath/ lungs, intestines, stomach, insomnia etc, so better take lots of care and PREFERABLY measure amounts with some sort of muscle test or something that you trust.
How's your chlorella reaction now? Hopefully you can ingest the stuff without problems?
As for prescription drugs, MAYBE you could still take it separate from NDF, as it seems the NDF effect works basically in the first hours after intake (until first urination) and decreases a lot after. But this is just a guess, maybe your doctor can help you on that?
Besides, I don't believe anyone can stand constant metal detox day after day, specially if you're toxic like I am.
I need many days of rest.
I take NDF prescribed by my naturopath. My present doctor believes my naturopath is great, so he leaves her do her job. He only helps me with homeopathy and teeth/ jaw.
Do you have someone to help you with chelating stuff? I don't want to feel guilty if you take this stuff and reacts horribly.
HI JIM!! Nice to hear from you too. Great news you're doing better too!
Hey, my naturopath is against most vaccinations. She said they weaken the immune system, and not the opposite.
I mean, if the disease you want to get immunity is really dangerous, I would still take the shots, but if not too dangerous I would leave it 'in waiting list', and try to take these IF one day we get rid of this disease.
I know that in your job you are maybe in the 'risk group' for tetannus. But if not, I wouldn't be vaccinated, at least not now with lyme.
I can't take coptis, even the 1/3 a day cause my kidneys to be in such a pain, I can't stand it.
Congrats on the coptis. Do you feel you herx/ improve much different from andro?
I also caught a cold today. It's my second cold these last months. I see it more like a positive thing because in my worst lyme days/ months, I was immune to colds.
Propolis works well, but still best are the frozen garlic stuff. I keep forgetting to take these.
Keep in touch, either here or in the Buhner's forum! Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Thanks, Selma. I guess I will stick with chlorella, since I can no longer afford the holistic doctor to monitor what I take, and I take prescriptions at many different times in small doses, all around the clock, even at 2 am!
I am doing well with chlorella now that I've added a digestive enzyme with each dose. Before that, it ripped up my GI system.
I think I probably have both of the HLA DR4 genes, and as a result, do not excrete toxins well. I have a Lymie friend, not quite as sick as I am, but who also herxes on and on without improving, and she tested positive for both genes.
I most likely have a copy of the APOE 4 gene as well, judging by the very short lifespan on my mother's side of the family.
There is also the possibility that the Neuropsychologist was right, and most of my problems are due to the brain damage from my head injury, not Lyme.
Either way, the news isn't good, but I will keep on trying....
Your improvement is inspiring to me
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
What metal(s) do you think is/are causing the greatest problem?
Na...lung elastase issues. Looks like the Na-K pump is not working during lyme infections.
Or
Zinc...excess... as Bb is killed off and it is released?
While we need some zinc, too much is very toxic to us.
Normally calprotectin in our neutrophils (most abundant WBCs which cycle every 3-4 weeks), bind zinc. I suspect this is causing the "herx" cycle.
Taking this a step further...
Teichoic acid induces what two cytokines?
TNF and IL-1
Is that acid in Bb's cell wall???
dipicolinic acid (cheltate zinc?) downregulates teichoic acid?
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Marnie asked:
"What metal(s) do you think is/are causing the greatest problem?"
Here is the answer - without a doubt - brought about by the preexisting conditions that most of us live with in today's environment and even worse if we have dental work with amalgams, multiple metals, root canals, etc. Added exposure to lead multiplies the burden/damage a hundred-fold.
"In the case of mercury the therapeutic dilemma is most clear: mercury can be used to treat infections but - not unlike chemotherapy - also causes a different type of illness itself and may kill the patient. The same is true for most metals: small doses may have a therapeutic effect in a short term, life saving direction, but may also cause their own illness. Most metals have a very narrow therapeutic margin before their neurotoxic, in some cases carcinogenic effect, outweighs the benefits.
Toxic metals may be fungicidal and bactericidal, maybe even virucidal, but many foreign invaders have the ability to adapt over time to a toxic metal environment in a way, that stuns scientists and certainly outpaces the ability of the cells of a higher organism - like ours - to adapt in a similar way.
So in the long run, the situation looks different: the cells of the body are harmed by toxic metals whereas the invading microorganisms can often thrive in a heavy metal environment. Research by Ludwig, Voll and others in Germany, by Omura and myself here in the US, showed that microorganisms tend to set up their housekeeping in those body compartments, that have the highest pollution with toxic metals. The body's own immune cells are incapacitated in those areas whereas the microorganisms multiply and thrive in an undisturbed way. The teeth, jawbone, Peyers patches in the gutwall, the groundsystem (connective tissue) and the autonomic ganglia are common sites of metal storage - where microorganisms thrive. Furthermore, those body areas also are vasoconstricted and hypoperfused (by blood, nutrients and oxygen), which fosters the growth of anaerobic germs, fungi and viruses.
The list of symptoms of mercury toxicity alone, published by DAMS (dental amalgam support group), includes virtually any illness known to humankind: chronic fatigue, depression and joint pains are the most common."
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