-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Health
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Why arent you on Clindamycin and Quinine? This has been proven to kill babesia, I have read.
I have been on this and it the herxing has been deadly. I have not had a positive Babesia Microti, have not been tested for WA-1 through IGENEX, and would like to but
was told that you have to be OFF Babesia medications for 3 weeks to get the FISH test done, and other tests, something to this effect, cannot recall exactly,
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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I haven't heard of anyone getting rid of WA-1 with anything but Riamet, Larium, or a primaquin combo. It's very hard to get rid of. Biaxin will not do anything for it IMO.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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Health
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I have always thought that babesia, all strains of babesia responded to clindamycin/quinine
OR
Mepron/ and a macrolide.
Is this new info about the Raimet and larium?
Never heard of riamet or larium, I am in Canada.
and am on clindamycin and quinine again.
thanks,
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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NP40
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Many doc's use flagyl or tinidazole in babs treatment. Mepron, plaquenil and malarone are used as well.
I'd think biaxin and flagyl would have some efficacy against babesia, especially if combined with artemisinin.
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cactus
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We're in the same boat. After 6 mos on mepron & biaxin (3 mos) or ketek (3 mos), my WA-1 was still pos also.
Currently, I'm on malarone, zith, and artemisinin, and was pulsing flagyl once monthly, now pulsing tinidazole once monthly. (And also omnicef, but that's not targeting babs, to my knowledge)
I understand flagyl kills babs, not sure about biaxin without mepron or malarone. Others will know, I'm sure.
Will you be adding in artemisinin as well? I've noticed significant changes with artemisinin.
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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NP40
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Definitely want to add artemisinin to any babs treatment. The biaxin, zith, etc. don't kill babs but prevent the babs from developing resistance to mepron, malarone, art, plaquenil, etc.
Posts: 1632 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2005
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To those who are saying that this combination will NOT work on Babesia: what is your basis for saying so?
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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I've heard sometimes it takes 2-3 rounds of mepron/zith/art to handle the babs. I'm on my second round and am getting even more results than the first time - significant improvement.
Best wishes.
Posts: 925 | From California | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I don't know about the flagyl combo -- but flagyl is an antiparasitic, so perhaps that makes sense....
I'm on round two of the mepron tx myself -- first time was mepron/ketek/artemisinin, now doing mepron/zith/art ( I stopped tolerating the ketek at all )
I'm having my first-ever babs herx, I think. I didn't herx the first time around.. just felt better. Now, I'm sweating up a storm with this round.... I wonder if the zith is somehow making the mepron/art work better...?
-------------------- "Looks like freedom but it feels like death.. It's something in between, I guess"
Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time" Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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NP40
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quote:Originally posted by DolphinLady: I've heard sometimes it takes 2-3 rounds of mepron/zith/art to handle the babs. I'm on my second round and am getting even more results than the first time - significant improvement.
Best wishes.
The standard minimum is 3 rounds and many times additional rounds are used as well.
Posts: 1632 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by tickedntx: To those who are saying that this combination will NOT work on Babesia: what is your basis for saying so?
I've never heard of anyone here saying it worked. [been here 6 yrs +] Haven't seen any research on it either...though that may not mean anything.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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JRWagner
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posted
I agree 100% with TuTu...I have been to the top LLMD's/ILADS Doctors and not one has ever used Flagyl or Tinny for Babesia...just for the BB that is usually present as well.
Read Dr. Burrescano's 2005 guidelines or, if you are still not convinced, read the info from Pfizer:
As for the other antibiotics mentioned there is no studies using these for Babesia. Why would a Doctor recommend using them?
We all would like to know the basis for such a decision.
Me? Lyme for 12 years...still fighting.
I took 4 months of Mepron and Zithromax for Babs...do I still have it???? Who knows...the testing is still not able to detect all the strains of Babesia (Dr. Burrescano estimates that there are over 20 different strains, and yet we only have tests fot two!)
I have heard Igenex has improved their Babesia testing recently.
Peace, Love and Wellness, JRW
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-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Health
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posted
I thought I saw several times a couple years ago on the Internet that there were studies done that
Clindamycin and Quinine were what killed Babesia?
I read this I thought? I was sure several times places on the Internet. Scientific studies done with the CLindamycin and Quinine to treat
babesia.
Are there studes done with Mepron and the Macrolides that these combos kill babesia?
I thought Mepron was a new drug? Is there studies that show this combo to work against babesia? Dr B recommends this combo, so there must be a reason?
studies done that this combo mepron and macrolides kill babesia?
I am on clindmaycin and quinine 7th week and sick as heck still. I want to throw the towel in and
DIE! from all this BS of healing.
JUST A thought to those that had combos not work, could it be because of some supplement you are taking that is making the drug combo INeffective?
I had this happen, olive leaf extract made the antibiotics less effective. Nystatin was fine.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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Clindy and Quinine does work but it's hard to hardle. A lot of people cannot tolerate it, and there is resistance to it after all the years that it was the mainstay for malaria.
Mepron was developed for aids patients for another protozoal parasite similar to babs (PCP). It turns out that it also works on Babs when a Macrolide is used with it. It is very expensive tho, and Tx can take up to a year to be successfull. At $800 a bottle, that turns out to be big bucks! Clindy + Qiunine can still work if it doesn't kill you first
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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thanks,
Why cant the people tolerate it? What are the symptoms that make them stop?
I have ringing in my ears, from it, but thought this would go away when I stopped this combo?
I recently heard that a woman had a DEADLY reaction to it, she was up at Emergency because of the Quinine. I spoke to her on the phone, she had a rare reaction to it, and near died from it.
The DR's though up at Emergency said that Quinine is a common drug and what happened to her was rare.
Did you try this combo? and if you did did you stop it from side effects?
I am on my 7th week of it, and wonder if I am sick from some side effects of it.
thanks,
Trish
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posted
According to my dr's in house research [among HIS patients] those on clindamycin/Q did better than those on mepron/zith. It was only a 5% difference.
When you consider the cost also, it makes sense to try the clindy/q. I took it for many many rounds. When I finally took artemisinin and zith, I seemed to have gotten rid of the babs.
I'm not going to hold my breath that either it or the lyme is gone forever.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Health
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Lymetoo,
What I find odd is that by going off and on the clindamycin and quinine, how could it always be effective for you?
I find that the clindamycin and quinine does not seem as effective as before when I took it.
When you stop it and start it several times, I would think? that it would not be so effective as the first time you took it.
I read that your LLMD did 10 days of it for you several times, I have not read this before.
Dr B recommends at least 4 months nonstop if you have chronic babesia.
Does your LLMD follow Dr B's guidelines?
Whatever works that is the main thing, and if you are well then that is great, just that I never heard of having this 10 day babesia treatment several times.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
My LLMD uses tini and zith(same as flagyl and biaxin combo) for WA-1 and yes it does work. I'm in the same boat and will be starting it too this weekend. I'm not tolerating the mepron well to say the least.
Posts: 293 | From healdsburg, ca , sonoma | Registered: Feb 2005
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Thank you for your input. I was probably put on the Biaxin/Flagyl combination because I had been on the Zithromax for so long, including for several months prior to starting Mepron.
It is WA-1 for which I have tested +. Perhaps they are finding that these combos are more effective for the WA-1 strain.
Interestingly, at least to me, is that, after testing negative on the Babesia panel at Igenex in 2004, I did four months of Mepron and Zithromax as a precautionary measure, and still tested + for WA-1 two years later. (I was not tested in between those two rounds of testing.)
Given that the earlier round and this current round of Mepron and Zithromax did not eradicate the infection, it makes sense to try something different.
I would like to make a suggestion to those of you who said that Biaxin/Flagyl would not work against Babesia. While I appreciate that you took the time to respond, be cautious in the future about making absolute assertions when you really don't know.
TBD treatment is constantly evolving. Unless you had read something that stated that this combination would not work, it would have been best to reply, as some did, that you've just never heard of this rather than asserting that it would not be effective.
While I've been around long to enough to be at least a little skeptical of all patient input, many new members may not be. Please be careful.
Thank you all again for your input.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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treepatrol
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posted
This weird I just had a LLMD appt and I am starting biaxin & mepron He took me off the combo omnicef biaxinxl left me on biaxin xl and is adding in mepron 21 days on 14 off mepron then 2 days mepron, Then probaly take out biaxinxl add in zith. He dosent like to switch two abx's out at the same time apparently its to much for the body to adjust to??
Anyway he wasnt happy because I am setback in one way he said we missed coinfection first time around now going after parisitic babs he wanted me to test but I said because of all the bites I have had lets just treat for everything again, because tests dont always show possitives.{But he did want Igenex} Any way he did mention that certain antibiotics do effect babs and other infections of that type but its slower and and at long uninterupted doses??
So apparently abx can effect some parisitic infections I didnt get into how though.
my 2 cents
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
I would like to make a suggestion to those of you who said that Biaxin/Flagyl would not work against Babesia. While I appreciate that you took the time to respond, be cautious in the future about making absolute assertions when you really don't know.
And I would like to caution you that some Dr's try different combinations that have proven not to be effective, and also that one person chiming in that his Dr does believe that it works is no proof that it does. I have used 1000 mg bid of Tini and Flagyl along with Mep and Zith for 6 months at a time, and it did not work.
The absolute assertions that we make are based on our own experience, as well as spending years in therapy and on Lymenet, and not seeing any successes with Biaxin Flagyl against WA-1. It's up to you what you believe.
Tini and Flagyl are antiparasitic and antiprotozoal, and they are effective against babs to a degree, but resistance does develope against them rather quickly.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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treepatrol
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Oh I forgot I told him I have been weezing some and he said that some parasitic infection cause a increase in histamines which can cause the weezing.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
treepatrol
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posted
quote:Originally posted by micul: Suzann says:
The absolute assertions that we make are based on our own experience, as well as spending years in therapy and on Lymenet, and not seeing any successes with Biaxin Flagyl against WA-1. It's up to you what you believe.
Tini and Flagyl are antiparasitic and antiprotozoal, and they are effective against babs to a degree, but resistance does develope against them rather quickly.
I made no absolute assertion just comments.
you said
Tini and Flagyl are antiparasitic and antiprotozoal, and they are effective against babs to a degree,
I have been on flagyl or its generic but never tini.
and i have been treated with metrodiazadole sp? generic flagyl probaly since 2001 around a years worth if not more over the years the last time I was on it we were trying pennicilin vk and flagyl and it was the only time i had re occurring stomach aches like every day which we switched to flagyl and ketek which the stomach aches continued so out went the flagyl and they stopped.
no absolutes just trying to figure.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
treepatrol
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posted
Lariam Active Ingredients: Mefloquine Representative Names: Lariam Available Product Images:
What are mefloquine tablets? What should my health care professional know before I take mefloquine? How should I take this medicine? What if I miss a dose? What drug(s) may interact with mefloquine? What side effects may I notice from taking mefloquine? What should I watch for while taking mefloquine? Where can I keep my medicine?
What are mefloquine tablets? (Back to top) MEFLOQUINE (Lariam�) is an antimalarial agent. Mefloquine prevents and treats malaria infection, which is transmitted by mosquitos. This drug is commonly given prior to travel to an area where malaria is a common infection. Generic mefloquine tablets are available.
What should my health care professional know before I take mefloquine? (Back to top) They need to know if you have any of these conditions: *depression or history of mental problems including anxiety disorder, schizophrenia, or psychosis (losing touch with reality) *eye disease *heart disease *liver disease *seizures (epilepsy or convulsions) *an unusual or allergic reaction to mefloquine, hydroxymefloquine, quinidine, quinine, other medicines, foods, dyes, or preservatives *pregnant or trying to get pregnant *breast-feeding
How should I take this medicine? (Back to top) Take mefloquine tablets by mouth. Follow the directions on the prescription label. Take mefloquine with food and a full glass (8 ounces or 240 ml) of water. If you are taking mefloquine to prevent malaria, you should start taking it one week before entering the area, and continue for 4 weeks after leaving. Take your doses at regular intervals and on the same day of each week. Do not take your medicine more often than directed. If you are treating an acute malaria infection, you will receive a single dose of the drug. For prolonged travel in an area where malaria is common, consult your healthcare provider for proper dosing schedule.
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What drug(s) may interact with mefloquine? (Back to top) *beta-blockers *chloroquine *halofantrine *quinidine *quinine *typhoid vaccine *valproic acid
Tell your prescriber or health care professional about all other medicines you are taking, including non-prescription medicines, nutritional supplements, or herbal products. Also tell your prescriber or health care professional if you are a frequent user of drinks with caffeine or alcohol, if you smoke, or if you use illegal drugs. These may affect the way your medicine works. Check with your health care professional before stopping or starting any of your medicines.
What side effects may I notice from taking mefloquine? (Back to top) Side effects that you should report to your prescriber or health care professional as soon as possible: *blurred vision, or change in vision *fainting spells *fever or chills *hearing problems *headaches, confusion, or other mental changes *joint or muscle aches *redness, blistering, peeling or loosening of the skin, including inside the mouth *ringing in the ears *seizures (convulsions) *skin rash, itching (there may be severe itching without a rash) *unusual changes in heart rate or other heart problems *unusual tiredness or weakness *vomiting
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If you are taking mefloquine or have taken mefloquine in the past 3 weeks, you should not take halofantrine (another malarial drug). Dangerous heart side effects may occur. Talk to your health care provider.
Tell your prescriber or health care professional if your symptoms do not improve in a few days. If you are taking mefloquine for a long time, visit your prescriber or health care professional for regular checks. If you notice any changes in your vision see your ophthalmologist for an eye exam.
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::::::::::::::::
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Riamet
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Treatment of uncomplicated Plasmodium falciparum malaria Warning!
Unless your doctor or pharmacist tells you otherwise, you should avoid drinking grapefruit juice while taking this medicine, as it may affect the level of this medicine in your blood. Take this medicine with or after food. This medicine may cause fatigue and dizziness. You should take care when performing potentially hazardous activites, such as driving or operating machinery, until you know how this medicine affects you and are sure you can perform such activities safely. If you are sick within one hour of taking a dose of this medicine you should consult your doctor or pharmacist, as you may need to take another dose. It is very important that you complete the prescribed course of this medicine, unless otherwise directed by your doctor, as the medicine may not be fully effective if you don't. This medicine is not recommended for children under 12 years of age and/or weighing less than 35kg. If you have kidney, liver or heart problems you should have regular tests while you are taking this medicine, to monitor the level of potassium in your blood (blood test), and your heart function (ECG). Use with caution in
Abnormal heart rhythm seen on the heart monitoring trace (ECG) as a 'prolonged QT interval' Heart failure History of symptomatic irregular heart beats (symptomatic arrhythmias) Imbalance of the salts in the blood, particularly low blood potassium levels (hypokalaemia) or low blood magnesium levels (hypomagnesemia) Severely decreased kidney function Severely decreased liver function Slow heart rate (bradycardia) Not to be used in
Breastfeeding Complicated cases of malaria Family history of abnormal heart rhythm, present at birth, seen on the heart monitoring trace (ECG) as a 'prolonged QT interval' Family history of sudden death Heart disease People with diseases or conditions that can cause an abnormal heart rhythm, seen on the heart monitoring trace (ECG) as a 'prolonged QT interval', or people taking medicines that can cause this. (Your doctor will know.) This medicine should not be used if you are allergic to one or any of its ingredients. Please inform your doctor or pharmacist if you have previously experienced such an allergy. If you feel you have experienced an allergic reaction, stop using this medicine and inform your doctor or pharmacist immediately.
Pregnancy and Breastfeeding
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The safety of this medicine in pregnancy has not been established. It should therefore be used with caution during pregnancy, and only if the benefits to the mother outweigh any risks to the foetus. Seek medical advice from your doctor. It is not known whether this medicine passes into breast milk. Women who need to take this medicine should not breastfeed during treatment, and for at least a week following the last dose. Seek further medical advice from your doctor. Label warnings
Take this medication with or after food.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
I did Mepron/Zith for about 6 months for Babs microti and still tested positive. Then I did Ketek/Flagyl and my Babs test turned negative. I think I also did some Diflucan in there for a couple or a few weeks but the main regimen was K/F.
So count one person with success getting rid of Babs with Flagyl.
Good luck, Denise
Posts: 261 | From San Mateo, CA | Registered: May 2005
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charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
Bactrim+biaxin+artemisinin did it for me. Mepron is just a newer substitute for those who can't tolerate the sulfa in bactrim.
I honestly can't figure out why the macrolide...the explanations don't make that much sense. It's just like it's sort of a given you're supposed to accept. Who knows... I just play around till I find something that works, which after all is all the medical professionals are doing.
Charlie no doctor he
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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I did Mepron/Zith for about 6 months for Babs microti and still tested positive. Then I did Ketek/Flagyl and my Babs test turned negative. I think I also did some Diflucan in there for a couple or a few weeks but the main regimen was K/F.
So count one person with success getting rid of Babs with Flagyl.
Good luck, Denise
From what I've heard/read, Ketek works on babs. So I would first believe it was the effective one, not flagyl.
But that's just ME and my silly opinion!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Health
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Member # 6034
posted
Denise,
It could be possible that without the 6 months of the Mepron combo you may have not responded well to the Ketek/Flagyl.
Had you done the Ketek/Flagyl, ONLY, with no mepron combo, would the babesia test of yours still have come back negative?
Do you know?
I have spoken to many online that were doing alternative therapies the SWORE by them, that was the reason they were getting well from lyme,
BUT what they failed to mention was that they had previously been on many years of antibiotics, some 3 years, others 2 years, others 5 years.
Get what I am saying? Maybe the mepron combo did help you in some way, or somewhat, maybe not, just getting people thinking to ALL that they do, could very well come into the picture with each of us, in getting us well.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Here's another great thread that has some alternative Tx's in it from Dr H. He used high dose Bactrim along with with Mep/Zith and got a 89% cure rate in a short time.
posted
Denise said: >> So count one person with success getting rid of Babs with Flagyl.
Thank you for feedback. I was on Ketek with Bicillin and Artemisinin for a few months last year and part of this, and still the WA-1 was +, so (in response to someone who said they thought it was the Ketek), my experience would lead me to believe that it was the Flagyl.
Or maybe I just was not on the Ketek long enough.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Health
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6034
posted
What are the drugs of choice for babesia?
What do the Infectious Disease Dr's use for...
WA-1 Babesia strain?
Babesia Microti?
I have read that the Babesia can sometimes be lifethreatening, what is used then for these people that are infected with Babesia
and are treated in the Hospital?
We should be using this should we not?
I am studying this, have been for 3 years, and to read here that 6 MONTHS of the VERY expensive mepron has failed treating babesia,
well, I can see why the insurance companies are upset, I am not up on all of this, trying to be but am sick and wanting to get better and read as much
as I can. Read DR B's guidelines as well, so why then does he recommend Mepron and Azithro or another Macrolide and it fails for some here?
that is a bundle of money for the insurance agents.
What do the ID Dr's use to treat these Strains of Babesia? This is absurd I am finding as I read here.
Anyone know?
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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