Topic: Cracks at corners of lips, smooth tissue pain
klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
I hope someone here with a medical background can help me figure out the cause of this recurring problem once and for all, so I know what to treat it with.
I am asking for help from any of you with medical backgrounds.I have had this problem maybe 7 times in 21 years of this illness,including when I first became ill, and have had many people tell me they know what it is, but I get 3 differing answers, none of which seem to be totally right.
Symptoms: very painful, red cracks at corners of mouth, that scab over, but break open each time I eat. They leave scars. Red ,sore tip of tongue and many small cracks in tongue. Crack down middle of tongue splays outward. Vulvar soreness and white, hard bumps on labia (2 GYN's have said the white bumps are "within normal parameters", yeah right!). Slightly sore throat, worse than usual fatigue, fuzzy vision.
Conventional docs usually just say "use chapstick".
What I've been told it is caused by, by other non-medical people:
1.Vitamin B2 deficiency (this is very hard to be deficient in and I take tons of B complex. If I were not absorbing it, I would think I would not have passed my malabsorption testing, and I've had both conventional and holistic tests. I also take digestive enzymes with each meal.)
2. Yeast overgrowth. (I take tons of probiotics and when this starts, I gargle them before swallowing and triple my dose with no effect). I already take several things that kill yeast,like garlic and Cumanda, and I add caprylic acid when this starts up. No help.
3. Herpes (blood tests showed no active herpes and this often lasts longer than the 15 days a typcial herpes outbreak would last. Bumps are white, not red, and do not ooze or blister). Could it be HHV6a, instead of HHV1?
I am not saying those 3 are wrong. One of them may be correct. I would like some guidance on why one of them is correct, if you think so, and any ideas you experts have on other help in treating it.
Does anyone else have this?
Thank you, Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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dmc
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5102
posted
Just a suggestion, try Neosporin LT. I used to get that and coldsores alot. Was on the antiviral Acyclovir and didn't break out but since off get cod sores when herxing, cracks too.
I'm amazed the neosporin lt cures coldsores in 3 days...much better than denivir ever did. Its not a prescription. It doesn't have any antibiotics in it either, just a "balm".
It costs about $3.00 a tube,at good ole Walmart. Devevir costs $29.00 for a tiny, tiny tube, and need RX.
Posts: 2675 | From ct, usa | Registered: Jan 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
That sounds like herpes outbreaks. If you are on any killing meds, viruses are held by parasites and other bugs; so you can have repeated outbreaks. Why not try the ozonated oils. They work on just about anything.
posted
Sounds like B vitamin shortages. You could still be deficient if you have parasites that are sucking up the B's that you take. Have you done a Great Smokies CDSA test?
I don't think that Herpes or cold sores would hit the corners of your mouth. I use to have this problem also, but not for a long time. What helped was to stop taking any B vitamins and taking antiprotozoal meds like Tini and Flagyl. Yeast like B's also.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I work in dentistry. Cracks in the corner of the mouth are very common in B vitimin defiency. B-12 in particular is very hard to absorb orally. I give myself B-12 by IM injection 1x per week. Dr. Burrascano talks about this in his treatment guidelines. Could be other things, but this could be worth a try. Also easier on the diagestive tract (and yeast overgrowth) if taken as injection. Good Luck!
Posts: 258 | From Washington State | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I work in dentistry. Cracks in the corner of the mouth are very common in B vitimin defiency. B-12 in particular is very hard to absorb orally. I give myself B-12 by IM injection 1x per week. Dr. Burrascano talks about this in his treatment guidelines. Could be other things, but this could be worth a try. Also easier on the diagestive tract (and yeast overgrowth) if taken as injection. Good Luck!
Posts: 258 | From Washington State | Registered: Nov 2005
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Thanks to all who replied! I can see my extreme TH2 immune dominance will once again interfere with my ability to try some of your ideas, ie. I am allergic to almsot everything!
dmc- unfortunately, I am very allergic to neosporin. I am glad it helps you so much.
Gigi - how do I know which oil to take for herpes? There are so many of them, and my funds are so limited.
Micul - Yes, I did the Great Smokies test twice with two different docs at different times. I had some problems, but not that. I believe protozoal meds are all sulfa drugs, are they not? They all end in "azole". I am super allergic to sulfa. I will go look at my B complex and see if it is yeast free.
Von - My B12 level was quite high when tested, but you may be on to something, since my mother had pernicious anemia, and that has a strong hereditary basis (which is why I asked to have the test done). I will ask my PCP about shots if it keeps up. I have had B12 shots several times during my illness with no improvement, but not specifically for this problem.
As you can see, once again I am getting totally different opinions!
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I get coldsores quite frequently and read somewhere to take L-Lysine. I have been taking a 500mg capsule in the AM & PM for several weeks now and so far I have not had a coldsore while on it. It could be coinsidence, but I'll stay on it anyway!
I take the NOW brand and the container says " Contains no sugar, salt, yeast, wheat, gluten, corn, soy, milk, egg or preservatives." Just thinking about the allergies you mentioned.
I'm sure you know that a negative parasite test does not mean that you don't have them, just like lyme and Co's. Did you ever do a "Purge" test with Fleet phosphate of soda or other purgative?
Tini and Flagyl are not sulfa drugs. Bactrim and Septrin are. There is also Alinia which is a fairly new drug.
You could do a test to see if it is Candida by taking Diflucan for a week or so, if you aren't allergic to it. If your cracks go away, it's yeast. It's not a sulfa drug either. Are you so very sure that your allergys to most drugs aren't really a big herx because you are so badly infected? Have you ever tried working through a drug that gave you a bad reaction?
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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AZURE WISH
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 804
posted
Sorry I dont know what is causing it... but I have had the corners of my lips torn before.
I applied vitamin e oil to the cut areas ... it helped alot.
I also use it on my lips everyday (a couple times a day) cuz if I dont especially in the winter my lips get chapped and start peeling.
I find that the oil works better than the goopy stuff (oinment?)
posted
Hi, Got the same thing...lip thing is annoying! As are the other uncomfy cracks and outbreaks elsewhere
Only thing that has helped me is Lysine plus and I take alot too, but it seems to slow the process
down and ease the discomfort significantly.
run
Posts: 45 | From NJ | Registered: Sep 2006
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Good morning everyone, I did a lot of reading last night and some experimenting, and think I have this figured out, but will answer all of you individually first, since you were kind enough to take the time to try to help me.
orrn- I do not have cold sores. I know what they look like, having seen them on others, but these are very different. There are no sores, just cracks.
micul - I did only 1/2 of a Fleets prep for colonoscopy once, and ended up in ER with chills so bad my teeth almost broke and a BP in the stroke range. Had to cancel the test. No idea why. I avoid purges like the plague now. I use lots of probiotics, fiber and chlorella.
Yes, I've had testing by an allergist, which confirmed all of my suspected ABX allergies and alerted me to others as well. Lyme can cause Th2 dominance which can produce "the allergic to everything" problem.
Thanks for the info about the drugs!
Azure wish - I use vaseline all day, every day to keep my lips from burning. I agree it helps to cover the skin. I think if I did not have yeast overgrowth I would not need it though, since it started to go away when I was totally strict about no sugars, ever.
run - if Lysine is helping, then you can bet it is some sort of herpes virus. - - - - - - -
I read a lot of "experts" last night, and it was clear right away that B vitamins were not the problem. My symptoms do not match and neither do my blood test results.
Pictures of herpes in both areas where I have burning confirmed that may be what is causing my vulvar problem, though if it is, it's a mild case, but it is not the cause of my oral one.
Several experts mentioned that a mild yeast infection can cause cracks at the side of the mouth if it is too wet, and should be tx'd with prescription antifungual.
I have Ketaconazole cream, since I must use it all the time under my breasts or I get a painful yeast infection there the first time I exercise, clean house, garden, etc.
So, I gargled some probiotics in a little water. I inserted a boric acid suppository, mixed KY Jelly with some probiotic powder into a paste and put it on my vulva (just in case it's yeast, not herpes) and carefully put some Ketaconazole cream on the cracks in the sides of my mouth.
I went back to bed and woke up this morning with no pain in the cracks. They did not break open when I ate my breakfast, and they are not as red. I think it is safe to say they are caused by yeast.
As far as the other end of me is concerned, time will tell. If it's yeast, the boric acid will kill it. If it's herpes, it will go on it's own in two weeks.
Either way, I am almost certain that the cortisone shots I was forced to get for my lower back two weeks ago are the cause of these problems, since they would have lowered my immunity even further. It's always a Catch-22 with this disease.
Thanks for all your help. I hope this has helped give someone else some ideas. You all certainly helped me organize my thoughts and take action!
Klutzo
P.S. If any of you other females with yeast problems are interested, I get my borax supps. by prescription from a compounding pharmacy,and have found they work far better than Monistat, etc. Your doc just calls it in and they mail it right to your house. 30 supps. costs about $25.
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I had the cracks in the corner of my lips for years. For me it cleared up with abx treatment for lyme.
I hope you find relief soon.
Posts: 925 | From California | Registered: Sep 2004
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
I used to get those cracks in the corner of my mouth all the time. White bumps, too, in the corners. Like you said, they scab over but then recrack.
I have gotten full relief of the *cracks* but am not sure what helped by:
1) Going vegan and avoiding wheat/glutens, soy, most grains (except white rice). 2) Bumping up spices and herbs. (Expect it to get worse at first. I think I *herxed* on spices there for awhile. Even my gums bled on me.) 3) Wormwood, black walnut, and cloves. These kill adult, larva, and eggs respectively. It works, too! Start with the wormwood and expect to see *grains* of rice-like thingers in your BM.
I still get the sore tongue tip, but NO cracks in the corners since doing the above, and I used to get them all the time. They were painful and took forever to heal it seemed.
I highly doubt it is herpes. More likely it is yet another manifestation of Lyme. Hope you feel better soon:-)
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Thanks for all the advice. I can't take ABX, for reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. I am using herbs and spices, but not exactly the ones mentioned. Isn't Wormwood another term for Artemesia?
The cracks are slowly but surely healing with constant application of antifungual cream. The white bumps are gone again, but now I have a large, sore, hard, reddish bump instead, the size and shape of a green pea.
This happened once before and it suddenly disappeared just as quickly as it came, after about 2-3 weeks. It is always something!
It has only been one week since my last cortisone shot in my back. It normally takes 3 weeks for them to wear off. Meanwhile, I doubled my probiotics, garlic and resveratrol to try to help get rid of it.
It makes sense that it is a manifestation of Lyme, since it flared when I had to have cortisone, which would also have allowed the Lyme to go wild.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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