posted
best i recall, i haven't seen a single post by a member who claimed to have done bismacine, or chromocine.
i once read a legal doc on the cases you might have in mind, the cases either in texas or kansas.
theres several threads on this topic, but i don't recall any personal testimonies either way.
i recall one discussion thread, wherein at least one, real microscopist discussed features of the photographs produced. he was not impressed by them, on several levels of his analysis, and perhaps inference(s) derived therefrom.
years ago, i did a quick check of the u.s. patent database and could not find bismacine or chromocine, but i didn't search with specific enough information to pull them up. check the trademark section, as well if you want to drill deep into what this the bismuth is hooked up to.
the name chromocine would suggest chromium is hooked up to something.
there are otc products with bismuth in them, and these would probably get borrelia in teh gut. elsewhere, is a different question. i bought some pepto-bismol caplets, but haven't tried them yet. i figured these would get borrelia in the gut, and if i have Helobacter pylori, then these caplets would kill it, too.
brorson and brorson found "ranitidine bismuth citrate" to work in vitro. to my way thinking this would mean this is probably effective in the gut.
while i neither trust, nor like the quackwatch site, they would probably have some information on the clinic in mexico.
the trick with reading the quackwatch site, is to separate the "wheat from the chaff", and to confirm their statements with independent analyses by trustworthy sources.
Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Sorry, but I don't think you're going to find any help here.
I would encourage you to find a good LLMD and continue trying other methods of trying to get better...there are many out there, from ABX to Buhner protocols, without taking the chance that a cure will kill you.
I know your LLMD is not endorsing your efforts, so I think it is very unwise to pursue.
I would not make the statement lightly "I don't care if I risk cardiovascular collapse." Your doctor would care, and surely others do as well.
Best of healing to you.
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436
posted
I agree with pq and Michelle. No one here was recommending bismacin. No Lyme-literate doc I ever heard of prescribed it. I'd never heard of it until I read in the papers that someone had died of it, and another person was on kidney dialysis because of it.
beachcomber
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5320
posted
Bismuth, found in plain old Pepto Bismol, has been used with some success to treat H-Pylori. Apparently, it needs to be taken often over a course of at least 2 weeks. Dr. Sherry Rogers writes about it in her book "No More Heartburn".
Am not sure if it will address other bacteria, bugs, parasites, whatever.
Posts: 1452 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
This is WHY the interest in bismuth, BUT bismacine is DEADLY.
Int Microbiol. 2001 Dec;4(4):209-15.
Susceptibility of motile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to ranitidine bismuth citrate.
Brorson O, Brorson SH.
Department of Microbiology, Vestfold Sentralsykehus, Tonsberg, Norway.
Gastrointestinal symptoms accompanying Lyme disease have not been considered in the treatment of Lyme patients yet. Here we examine the effect of
ranitidine bismuth citrate (RBC)
on motile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi in vitro, to determine whether it could cure this bacterial infection in the gastrointestinal tract.
When motile forms of B. burgdorferi were exposed to RBC for 1 week at 37 degrees C, the minimal bactericidal concentration (MBC) was > 64 mg/ml. At 30 degrees C, the MBC was > 256 mg/ml. When the incubation lasted for 2 weeks at 37 degrees C, the MBC dropped to > 2 mg/ml. Bismuth aggregates were present on the surface of B. burgdorferi when RBC > or = MBC, as shown by transmission electron microscopy (TEM).
Cystic forms of B. burgdorferi, exposed to RBC for 2 weeks at 37 degrees C, were examined by cultivation in BSK-H medium (Sigma B3528). They were stained with acridine orange (pH 6.4, pH 7.4) and studied by TEM. The MBC for RBC for young cystic forms (1 day old) and old cysts (8 months old) was estimated to be > 0.125 mg/ml and > 2 mg/ml, respectively.
Bismuth aggregates were attached to the cysts and, in some, the pin-shaped aggregates penetrated the cyst wall. The bismuth aggregates also bound strongly to blebs and granules of B. burgdorferi when RBC > or = MBC.
When B. burgdorferi is responsible for gastrointestinal symptoms, bismuth compounds may be candidates for eradication of the bacterium from the gastrointestinal tract.
PMID: 12051564
Above talks about an entirely different bismuth compound!!!
Look closely at Zantac.
Hyperthermia / ICHT via DNP...an extremely strong acid in a class with cyanide DID kill someone.
You can't use so many acids (negative charge) and not expect the minerals (positive charge) to dive...they will... with horrible consequences.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
The doctor in Kansas referred to in the KS Bd of Health link was my doctor when I lived in Kansas. My sister worked for him. He even delivered my youngest child at St. Francis Hospital in Topeka.
Shortly after that birth in 1991, he got began getting real nutty. He'd been very well liked and loved by the community. Several people from my church who were nurses praised God to have found a place to work where their Christianity wasn't tested.
He was considered a very fine, Christian man, even named his building that held the practice "The Luke Building." Began thinking anything could be treated with different alternative approaches, even if it means swallowing toxic substances, metals, botanicals, whatever.
What he is is an egomaniac sociopath. He killed one woman with bismuth, and another became seriously ill. Those are the only ones he got caught on. Because of his practice consisting mainly of people from the Christian community, many just moved on, praised God they didn't get harmed or worse.
One woman, who was my child care provider for 11 years, almost died from a diabetic coma because of his negligence. Another almost bled out from an ulcer. Both because he insisted they didn't need conventional care. That he could "cure" them.
What the Bd's decision doesn't show is the number of disciplinary complaints and number of negligence complaints against this man. All because he was egomaniac enough to be able to cure anything and everything. Not to mention, he was a womanizing jerk on top of it. I learned that first hand when he was treating me after a serious auto accident in 1996.
He had been investigated for YEARS concerning these things, in trouble for tax evasion, in trouble for double dipping with insurance companies through a corporation he owned that provided back and neck rehab.
In trouble for many incidences of not answering pages or not being able to be found when he was on call, etc., etc. Real prize. He had a wife and seven, yes seven children, and tossed her aside like dirty laundry because she hadn't aged gracefully. She is a doctor herself having given up her own practice to be barefoot and pregnant like a good Christian wife should, finally wised up and filed for divorce. During his divorce, he did all he could to hide assets and get out of taking care of his wife of many years and supporting his remaining minor children.
Found a new doctor. Suggested my sister go and work somewhere else. He lost his practice later, and my sister was out of a job, which wasn't a real big problem as she'd had about enough of the guy already as it was.
I'd been approached by him in 1998 because of my symptoms and him having diagnosed me with Fibro a few years earlier. Did I want to try an alternative treatment because he believed I probably had Lyme. Because of his record and my first hand experiences with him as a person, I figured it could be nothing but snake oil and put it out of my mind until my sister told me about the death and then seeing the Bd decision.
It's the quacks like this that make it hard on us who are faced with turning to alternative methods to try and get well. Kinda raises some trust issues. . . Bismuth is snake oil. It kills people.
-------------------- Trying to figure it all out. Posts: 38 | From Spanaway, WA | Registered: Sep 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Bismuth is used in hair colors, nail polishes,some meds to fight H. pylori (Helidac is another medicine that combines bismuth and 2 antibiotics.), etc....and is in Pepto Bismol.
It is NOT, meant to be injected...OR taken orally in high amts.!!!
Injected it is DEADLY.
It is a very peculiar metal. The most "diagmagnetic" and is used in levitation i.e., magic acts!
The largest Bi-Mn permanent magnet is owned by...guess who.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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what exactly is bismacine; i.e.,its exact chemical name? hypothetical examples of what i mean: calcium phosphate,magnesium sulfate, lithium citrate, sodium bisulfite.
the study says no one, not even a 92 yr old died during weeks of bismacine and chromocine therapy.
someone did say they tried it on one of the bismacine posts- dont feel like searching for it- and said they didnt feel it was safe, they took it for 10 days i think
for hyperthermia i wasnt thinking icht, i was thinking coleys toxins
Posts: 8 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2006
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From what I've read bismacine and chromicine are the same thing. . .
You can look bismuth up on the periodic table. It is a heavy metal, seems to be less toxic than some, can be mistaken for lead, tin and the like, and there are many applications for it, some medical, most industrial. It doesn't seem to occur naturally all by itself and is a byproduct of other metal processing. It's even been looked at as a U-235 (I think that's the right number) carrier in place of Xenon in nuclear stuff.
Doesn't sound like something to be pumping through our blood.
I can tell you with absolute certainty, that a woman in Topeka, Kansas died from this stuff. I didn't know her personally, but as I said, my sister was working in that office when it happened. One more confirmed sick from it, kidney damage, and others who became ill, but simply went elsewhere and didn't pursue the doctor for whatever reason.
Moosie
-------------------- Trying to figure it all out. Posts: 38 | From Spanaway, WA | Registered: Sep 2006
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what i mean is the exact chemical name, as in,for a hypothetical example: bismuth lactate, bismuth mandelate, bismuth acetate, bismuth aminoate, bismuth cysteinate, and so on.
just my intellectual curiosity about its exact name according to the nomenclature used by the chemical, and pharmaceutical industries for naming new compounds.
Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: I think you've been here before, todd. Did you change your name??
I was kinda hopin for more of an introduction too, Todd!
Y'know, something a little more than "Hi, I'm brand new here but let's skip the small talk - just give me all the info you guys have about bismacine even though I know it's deadly."
Ooops; you didn't actually even say Hi!
Sure makes me feel all warm and trusting.
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436
posted
My brief research on this guy also turned up a disciplinary action for not responding to a page.
Thanks very much for the information, Moosie.
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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having culled the bismuthian compounds, and the statements below from one or more patents, i wouldn't know how much "freedom" from scrutiny an inventor has in making statements, as opposed to making the same statements, and list of bismutian compounds, in a peer review journal.
"Colloidal bismuth subcitrate (CBS), the most effective single agent against H. Pylori, is however not absorbed significantly from the GI, and therefore, produces no salivary concentrations. But as a single agent, it is about 6 to 8 times more effective in eradicating H. Pylori than metronidazole."
"Bismuth salts and preparations, such as bismuth citrate, bismuth and ammonium citrate, sodium bismuthyl tartrate, acid bismuth sodium tartrate, acid solution of bismuth, concentrated solution of bismuth, and solution of bismuth and ammonium citrate, which are described in for example the British Pharmaceutical Codex (1949"
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
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