posted
My daughter just got back her blood test and the Kappa was high as well as the Kappa/Lambda Ratio being low. Anyone know if this is significant.
Interestingly her IgG Titer to B. henselae was 1:128 or midly high.
posted
I'm definitely NOT any kind of "blood test expert", but if the test was for lyme it's gotta be taken with a boulder of salt---i.e. the results are highly unreliable. There are some labs that have more experience with testing for Lyme. There are also several kinds of tests. Igenex is supposed to be the best. They are in California. I think they do mainly "Western blot" test, but I am not sure; I think that's where some of the labelled quantities, like"IGC", but I don't remember anyone mentioning a "kappa-lambda ratio". Lyme does mess up many of the "standard markers" that they give you in a general blood test, though-- in my case the "ordinary'; i.e., non-LLMD, doc's interpretation was "Well, there's something going on, but I don't know what it is...we need to do more tests.".. ... "It's not Lyme, though"... ...
Yeah, RIGHT!
Thus my first lyme blood ...uh,...'test'..., was ....'negative'...
See about having your blood tested by Igenex. But symptomatic and history considerations are much more important than blood 'test' results in diagnosing Lyme correctly. Do you have a Lyme-literate doc? I wish you well!
DaveS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
I don't know what it means if the K/L ratio is low, but if a person had the Freelite serum test, which tests for Bence Jones protein, and the K/L ratio is high, it means too much protein.
This test can be used for testing conditiions such as myeloma, amblyoidosis, etc. I do know it is extremely sensitive and will show protein earlier than the 24-hour urine test.
I'm not aware of it's correlation with Lyme disease.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
lifeline
Posts: 983 | From FL | Registered: Dec 2002
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(I wrapped the above link, so you will have to cut and paste the entire link and drop it into the address line.)
IF, I repeat, IF the doctor was ruling out multiple myeloma...
It (MM) is very related to celiac disease(gluten intolerance...lacking enzymes to digest wheat) and looks to follow the Th2 pathway which looks to be related to bone marrow production of WBCs. I have files on MM because a neighbor's brother has it (he is receiving stem cells which put it in remission). Their mother had it, so there maybe a genetic link.
We make WBCs 2 places...thymus gland and from the bone marrow. They originate there and then mature to become more specific fighters.
Anemia is a big clue, but is/can be present in lyme too...it is PFK and melatonin related (looks to lock onto iron probably for protective reasons since many pathogens use iron to multiply) and babesia related (if co-infected).
Our astronauts (Skylab research a long time ago), returning to earth come home anemic and with low PFK levels (rate limiting enzyme for glycolysis - using sugar, not oxygen, to make ATP). Apparently in space there is a lot of "oxidative stress" that happens as it does in lyme too. Too many free radicals (VERY damaging)are produced. Thus the absolute need for all the antioxidants as well as the antioxidant enzymes.
Do you have a cat? Cat scratch disease is usually mild, but can be serious and one can indeed need abx. to clear it. In this case, abx. WORK. (Bb, compared to B. henselae, has a UNIQUE cell wall. Abx. are designed to damage the cell wall or prevent it's formation. Bb's cell wall is so darned unique, this is what makes Lyme especially hard to knock out.
I have a file on Cat scratch disease. Do you need it?
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. So much to do for the holidays.
I no longer can send PMs because I have blocked receiving them. I got a very nasty PM from someone on this board, so I decided it is best just to keep whatever research I run across out in the "open" for all to read and evaluate for THEMSELVES.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Infection triggering the bone marrow to produce more WBCs crowding out RBCs -> anemia?
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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I'm sorry, I'm not quite understanding whether it is good or bad to take melatonin if someone had myeloma or MGUS. It is confusing a little.
Thanks Marnie.
lifeline
Posts: 983 | From FL | Registered: Dec 2002
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
First a direct answer...we don't know for certain. But I will tell you a LOT of melatonin-cancer research is currently underway. Just go to Pubmed and type in "melatonin cancer". You will find many abstracts (summaries) to read.
Specifically re: melatonin and multiple myeloma:
"R�sum� / Abstract
Melatonin (MEL), the main hormone produced by the pineal gland, seems to exert antineoplastic activity both in vitro and in vivo.
Moreover, several studies reported increased melatonin blood levels in cancer patients.
Plasma melatonin concentrations were determined in 46 patients with multiple myeloma and in 31 age matched healthy subjects (57.8 � 6.9 versus 55.2 � 8.9 years).
Venous blood was drawn between 7.30 and 9.30 a.m. and melatonin was assayed using a commercially available radioimmunoassay.
The data were analysed by Student's t test and results reported as mean values � standard deviation.
The patients with multiple myeloma showed significantly higher mean melatonin serum levels than healthy subjective 21.6 � 13.5 versus 12.1 � 4.8 pg/ml ; p < 0.001.
This behaviour could actually represent a phenomenon secondary to an altered endocrine-metabolic balance caused by an increased demand of the developing tumor.
On the other hand, the increased melatonin secretion might be considered as a compensatory mechanism due to its antimitotic action and therefore as an effort to secrete substances capable of regulating neoplastic growth.
Revue / Journal Title Anticancer research Anticancer res. ISSN 0250-7005 Source / Source 1995, vol. 15, no6B, pp. 2633-2637 39 ref. Langue / Language Anglais
Editeur / Publisher International Institute of Anticancer Research, Attiki, GRECE 1980 Revue
I suspect it is ALREADY overproduced to try to "help out".
Now...let's "talk" and brainstorm...
Melatonin is a powerful antioxidant. It is needed to help us to FALL asleep...NREM sleep. Melatonin triggers bicarbonate release.
Acetylcholine is needed for REM sleep.
We normally go back and forth between these 2 during the night.
It sure as heck appears in lyme, melatonin is "upregulated"...it is ALREADY high..."chronic fatigue"? Sleepy?
It comes from tryptophan -> 5HTP -> serotonin + 2 enzymes -> melatonin.
This looks to be "countering" tyrosine going INTO the cells...perhaps. When this amino acid goes into the cells, it looks to trigger glycolysis. We use sugar from foods FIRST as an energy source.
When night falls, we convert serotonin to melatonin (triggered by pineal gland) via 2 enzymes.
At daylight, we convert melatonin back to serotonin.
If this conversion does NOT take place (like living in a cloudy area), we get SAD...seasonal effective disorder. Not enough serotonin to keep us "happy", melatonin isn't converting. We need sunlight, to trigger this conversion. I suspect it is the blue wavelength in "white" light that does this. This is the most powerful of the various wavelengths. Because it can damage our eyes, we have natural "blue blockers" in our eyes. But still too much exposure to bright lights does damage our eyes...cataracts, etc.
We make less melatonin as we age. It is needed (recent abstract) to help us to store memories. Curious that as we age, we seem to be able to bring back those memories we stored.
If melatonin binds to iron (and many pathogens use iron to multiply, but not Bb)what would the impact be on the ability of hemaglobin to carry oxygen (iron in heme)? Less oxygen...higher CO2 levels?
Brainstorming...(!!!)
I've read where CO2...carbon dioxide.. is now being used instead of heat to "pasteurize" orange juice without destroying the various other nutrients in it.
Amazing.
Is the body trying to use increased CO2 levels to erradicate infections???
We KNOW that Bb alters its proteins in its cell wall in response to pH levels, temperature and CO2 levels! If we alter Bb's cell wall, we change the body's response because our antibodies are made to "fit" that cell wall...to damage it.
Flagyl works by INCREASING ethanol. Flagyl + alcohol = disaster...think of alcohol poisoning and brain cell death. Ethanol (alcohol) alters proteins...not just Bb's, but our proteins too.
It APPEARS if someone has MM (multiple myeloma (overproducing too many WBC from the bone marrow)...the blue wavelength exposure is important...get out in the sun. Downregulate the TH2 pathway. (Beta cells, from bone marrow)
It appears in lyme, the red wavelength in light is important to downregulate the TH1 pathway. (T cells, from the thymus).
We know in lyme, vitamin D levels rise. This helps keep calcium IN the bones. It also is very, very protective from a cancer standpoint.
When too many free radicals are formed as a result of an infection (most free radicals are lone oxygen molecules), this damages the powerhouse of our cells and ultimately does DNA damage. Recessive genes that were not active, can become active.
Whatever you are studying, approach it this way: the body is responding to HELP KEEP ME ALIVE.
The body has to decide which pathogen (bacterial, viral, fungal) is the biggest immediate threat and then decide which immune system fighters to use. It does normally fluctuate between the Th1 and Th2 pathways, but can get "stuck" if one pathogen is a bigger threat...and Bb is a big threat.
I believe "autoimmune" is not the body attacking itself, but is instead an attempt to REACH THE INFECTION.
Tumors often develop their own blood supply. We figure - cut off the blood supply and halt the cancer. Sometimes this works.
But what IF (as some have suggested), this blood supply is an attempt to deliver specific highly targeted proteins to knock out the cancer cells?
Is PSA... simply a cancer "marker" for prostate cancer OR is it a highly targeted protein designed by our immune system to try to STOP the cancer?
In lyme, I believe, our first line of defense fails. We didn't have enough nutrients to fight fast enough. We KNOW Mg levels drop "significantly" at the outset and later our stores of Vitamin E (a powerful antioxidant) drop too.
We MUST have enough Mg and Ca to make HEALTHY antibodies...ongoing.
With Mg, we need enough B6...the list goes on...
We have too many damaged antibodies which don't work. Up goes TNF alpha...one of the jobs is to rid damaged antibodies (linked elsewhere).
The body is forced to find other ways.
We know NK cell levels drop. These natural killer cells job is to "squirt" a precancerous cell with a "negative charge"..a free radical to knock it out. About 4 precancerous cells a day are killed.
But...if the body is ALREADY acidic, no need for those cells...they drop during excessive exercise too when we are making a lot of lactic acid.
These do destroy pathogens. HIGHLY targeted. They must be the right ones!
When our OWN antibodies (proteins) are/were damaged, the body was forced to find another route...not as good.
This gets incredibly complex as you can now (I hope) see.
It is not simply a matter of saying...take more melatonin and you will be cured.
That's not to say the antioxidants and antioxidant enzymes aren't important...they ARE!!!
But, we have to target the pathogens...really target them...and IMO...our body know best how to do this.
Support it. Give it the nutrients it needs to fight. It SHOWED us which ones...right off the bat.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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When the PSA test numbers go up quickly, it signifys the presents of cancer. Before the PSA test, we do not know how much the antigen went up, but we do know people died and the antigen did not cure the cancer. It seems that the male hormone attacks cells in the prostate causing them to convert to cancer cells. Aparently, antigens don't attack hormones.
Posts: 219 | From Aubur,Al. USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Yes we have a cat and yes my daughter also tested positive for Bartonella with a low IgG titer 1:128.
Of course over the holiday's we are having trouble reaching llmd and pcp sees us in early January.
I saw Dr. B's 25 minute speech on Bartonella and was excited to hear that if my daughter is treated for this she may feel better. She currently is on Ketek and I gather she should be on a course of Levaquin.
Any other suggestions or links?
Her low Kappa Lambda Ratio makes me worried. PCP's nurse says it means inflammation.
By the way she has been treated for about 4 years with all the usually Lyme and Babesia meds both oral and IV.
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Troup, I will take the prostate discussion to another post. Watch for it.
We all need to SHARE as much knowledge as possible.
This is a *joint effort* to figure out what is happening so that we can figure out HOW to stop it safely and effectively (specifically targeting).
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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