klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Hi all, This is a topic I've not seen here before, or maybe I missed it somehow. I recently got fed up with endless herxing from Samento preventing me from functioning, and started tx with a TCM doctor.
I chose TCM because I had noticed some sx that they deal with and understand, ie. a large crack down the middle of my tongue, a red, raw tip on my tongue, and large reddish moons in my thumb nails. (Signs of what they call excess heart fire).
She uses a technique that is little known in the U.S., involving lots of very tiny needles in one side of the head, which do hurt a lot when they are first inserted! She warned me it would hurt, but said it would be worth it, and it was.
The key here is to rebalance the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, which are totally out of whack, in my case at least, and since they are connected to the immune system, they must be restored to balance.
It was worth the head pain when the needles were placed. After only one session, I felt calm instead of wired, and did not have a panic attack in my sleep that night for the first time in two months.
The calmness lasted for another 1 1/2 days, and the next day I was able to go full tilt all day long like a normal person, something I have not done in years. Having normal energy was such a shock and so exciting!
I also caught myself smiling several times. It almost hurt, since it had been so long since I'd done it. I still have the same stresses, but they no longer bummed me out so much. I had a "que sera, sera" attitude, instead of my usual simmering anger.
I have watched this disease overcome many other tx that seemed promising at first. It is one smart bug. But, I am either hopeful or stupid, because I am really excited about using something with no bad side-effects, that might rebalance my body so it can fight the bug itself.
I have come to see the herbs and supplements, that I take so much of, as just another form of allopathic medicine, but without any standardization to protect us. You stop the ABX and the sx come back, and the same thing usually happens with herbs, IME. Just my two cents, not trying to start an argument.
I did not agree with everything the TCM doctor told me. She told me "sugar is a pain in the neck, literally". My neck was almost broken in an accident and is deformed from DDD. While I am no fan of refined sugar, I fail to see the connection.
She defines "sugar" as all grains, potatoes, breads, fruit juices, etc, including complex ones. She is one of those "eat protein and veggies only" advocates. I cannot eat that way or I go into a hypoglycemic crisis. I don't think one way of eating applies to all of us.
However, with the results I got, she can stick needles in my head anytime and lecture me about not eating grains all she wants!
I will keep you posted on my tx, and if anyone else has used acupuncture for Lyme, please post your experiences. Thank you.
Keeping my fingers crossed..... Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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northstar
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7911
posted
Klutzo,
That is great news..........I think I will try a series of treatments, too.
I think some have tried it in the past, but do not recall their experiences.
I tried it pre-lyme, for a fun experience.....and was amazed at the increase in joint fluidity (walk looser, neck turn to back up in car). Perhaps that was resolving a developing lyme symptom.
I tried a few in the beginning of lyme, but no change was noticeable, and I was so sick, it was hard to travel there. Perhaps the degree of sickness was so great that I was oblivious to subtle changes.
Would love to hear your progress!
Northstar
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Hi Klutzo - I am an acupuncturist with late stage Lyme.
I actually was studying western medicine with the intention of becoming an acupuncturist later down the road. I was struck with severe late stage neuro Lyme in my tracks.
I changed my course, realizing I had a chronic disease and that life was too short not to do what we wanted... and having had bad experiences with my non LLMD ducks, before getting diagnosed and finding LLMD. So, i bypassed the rest of my western med studies and went straight to acupuncture school when I was well enough to function.
In my acupuncture school in California, western medical studies are highly emphasized and so i felt like I got the best of both worlds.
Anyway, acupuncture helps me tremendously with most of my pain sx and much of my anxiety and neuro sx. I use chinese herbs wherever I can for many of the miscellaneous Lyme things eg sinus infections etc.
I find that the combo of abx / allopathic medicine and eastern medicine has kept me quite functional and fairly well for all of these years, despite the extreme progression of Lyme into my brain and nervous system once I got it diagnosed. I don't know how I would make it without acupuncture honestly.
I think it is important that we combine the knowledge of east and west to help us to get well and stay well.
I am glad that you are benefitting from acupuncture and I hope you keep it up. It is amazing how it will help in places where no amount of pain killers, western meds and treatment can even touch!
Posts: 589 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Jun 2006
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
I went to an acupuncturist for many years before I knew I had lyme disease. Though I believe it has a strong place in the process of getting well, i.e., balancing our energies inside, which raises health and immunity, etc., it did not provide a cure.
BUT... that is not to say your TCM practitioner won't have something that could clear the infection. I ended treatment several years before discovering LD. Perhaps if my TCM practitioner knew what I was dealing with, the tx may have been different.
I agree that sugar/carbs are not helpful. Could you ask her for something to help balance blood sugar? Does she also do chinese herbs? Some do, and some don't. The five element practitioners do not use herbs.
I substitute protein drinks in place of carbs. Whey protein really helps me.
It absolutely will make you smile more (and cry more, sometimes). It completely changed the way I viewed life (positive) and made the illness a thousand times more tolerable.
Best wishes,
Claire
[ 07. January 2007, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: clairenotes ]
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Hey Luvdogs and all. Accupuncture with a gifted practitioner is like walking on water. I haven't used it as much to heal Lyme as I'd like because of the expense. Accupuncture relaxes me like nothing else. That in itself is healing.
Posts: 422 | From Luck home | Registered: Sep 2005
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Thanks so much to you all for your interesting answers!
Neither of the two TCM docs I have talked with there have mentioned herbs at all, which surprised me. I am afraid of herbs unless they are grown here. I doubt that my GI system would tolerate herbs grown in the excrement they often use for fertilizer over there.
I have also seen horror stories about adulteration of imported Chinese herbs with drugs, impure and illegal substances, etc. I don't know if they are true, but they scared me.
Still, I used the Zhang herbs for six months with no bad effects. I am pretty sure they are grown in the U.S. though.
There are 3 acupuncturists in this office, and since I am doing a 3 session package at a discounted price, I will have one session with each one.
The first one I saw is the only one who does this special Chinese technique with the tiny needles in the top of the head.
I have a lot of neuro-Lyme, so if it helps that, it makes sense that is why it helped me so much.
The expense will be a major problem for us also. I am trying not to think about how we can come up with the cash. I hate it that tx is so often only for the rich. My DH has major pain issues, and I want him to try it too. We will need to rob a bank!
Luvdogs, I am too ill to drive there either, yet. It has been about 10 yrs. since I drove that far (It is only about 3 1/3 miles, but on 4 and 6 lane roads, which overwhelms my brain). On really good days, I can drive to the grocery, which is one mile away on a two lane street.
The day after the first session, I could have driven just about anywhere, except that my normal dose of BP med felt like an overdose and almost knocked me out. I hope this might mean I could lower my dosage of drugs eventually, if I keep going.
I have tried whey with no results, but maybe once proper flow of Qi is restored, the nutrients can better get where they should go.
The Doctor mentioned another practitioner they sometimes refer Lyme patients to, who specializes in homeopathic tx for Lyme. I've had no luck with homeopathy before, but will see what develops.
Luvdogs, you are so right that life is too short to do something you don't like.... wish I had learned that lesson earlier.
I appreciate all the input, both bad and good. I had one bad experience myself.
I saw two other acupuncturists, one before Lyme, who cured my whiplash in 2 sessions. The other one was after being misdiagnosed with FMS, and he did not help me at all after 12 sessions. So, I do think it's important to get the right practitioner.
I have my next appt. on Monday and will post again if I learn anything new.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
To all...please read my post at curezone, I'm called myself 'jolts' there. It's a story about my experience with acupuncture back in the mid 80's. It truely was a miracle.
After much research I have figured out why that 2nd visit did it for me.
There is something called contrast. When I was laying there taking in all the needles I was having anxiety, getting nervous, & starting to sweat. I layed there for a whole hour while the acupuncturist left me. I was so relieved when he came back to take the needles out. I felt a calm.
Do you see it yet? I went from one extreme to another. I had contrast. I had all that anxiety & stuff & then suddenly a state of calm. I had a release of endorphins. I have read that this is what's actually happening, that meridian points are being stimulated & producing endorphins.
I had other times I went back for treatment but there was only little effect. It's because there was no contrast.
Aside from acupuncture there's been a few times I've had bliss & even the ultimate 'esdaile state'. When I look back in each one of these experiences I can see the contrast.
But to induce contrast to start the healing...well I just don't know. Maybe you just have to let it happen.
-------------------- Pat Sr Posts: 63 | From Toms River,NJ | Registered: Oct 2006
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Hi Pat, Thanks for the link to your story. It makes sense, since the release of endorphins during acupuncture is well documented.
I have zero anxiety about the needles, so I don't think I felt any of the contrast you talked about. I actually felt worse right after the session, because the pillow under my neck had been too firm. It took about an hour or more after the session for the calmness to set in.
I also have a lump in my neck like the one you speak of...it makes my head look like it's sitting on my neck wrong, and my back below the lump is much too straight, when it should be curved. My "lump" is caused by DDD.
The upper neck is as close as you can get to a "headquarters" for the autonomic nervous system, so as you mentioned, a lot can go wrong if you have problems there.
I am very glad you got relief and were able to work again too....a very inspiring story!
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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beachcomber
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posted
Cranio-sacral therapy works to balance the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. It helps me tremendously with my energy levels, fears, and balance.
The theory may be similar.
It is an ongoing process. If it is working for you, go with it. Your body will eventually tune into its own resources to help you get through this creepy disease. Maybe not a cure, but beneficial.
klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Hi beachcomber, I had 3 sessions of cranial-sacral therapy about ten yrs. ago when I still thought I had FMS.
It did not even come close to doing for me what the acupuncture did in only one session, but it did get rid of my TMJ, and I've not needed to wear a night splint since! That was a very big accomplishment, for which I am eternally grateful.
I am glad it is helping you.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Here is my promised update: I wrote a thank you note to the acupuncturist for the effects her special needles in the head treatment had on me.
This impressed her and as a result it got me a great deal....instead of having to see each of the 3 doctors in the practice one time each during my 3 session trial period, I now get to see her for all 3 sessions.
So, I had more needles in my head today, on the other side this time, as well as some in the palms of my hands for my bladder problem, and behind my right ear for my hip pain.
Once again the pain was bad at first, but I am grinning ear to ear now and feel calm, optimistic and happy.
Next time she is going to put six small needles in each one of my big toes to work on the painful stiffness in my neck. Needles are less painful than the acupressure she had been doing on my toes.
This office has "budget plans" for long term clients, so I hope I can find some way to afford to continue.
We also went over my supplements, and as I anticipated, she told me to stop the freeze dried garlic, since it is a hot herb, and I have a condition of excess heat (excess heart fire).
In it's place she told me to take GAIA brand Oil of Oregano, which she thinks is wonderful. She muscle tested me for it and it came out strong. I've taken oil of oregano before and did not herx, so I am holding off for now.
Instead, I am taking my Samento with me to my next appt. to be muscle tested to see if I should go back on it or not. If not, then I will get the oil of oregano.
I would recommend trying this to anyone who can possibly afford it.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I went after quitting my job that had toxic mold, and before finding out I had Lyme(I was actually going to doctor for mold illness issues and tested positive for Lyme). Acupuncture made me terribly sick. I would have night terrors when 'near sleep' and vivid colorful visions when eyes closed. I had to stop because it was making me soooooo sick and looney. In this same respect, it does mean that it does something and not 'the placebo affect'.
-------------------- Never walk through a cornfield backwards.
Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
Hi, Klutzo!
I'd love to hear how your acupuncture treatments are going!
I started seeing an acupuncturist prior to being dx with Lyme. It was actually my acupuncturist who suggested that I had something systemic and thought it might be Lyme.
I've been seeing her ever since.
For a long time, I saw her for weekly sessions and was able to barter for some of them. Now, it's about twice a month.
She's been invaluable in helping me with neuro issues (which you mentioned) and so with some of the arthritic symptoms I've had. She uses a variety of techniques, and each session tailors that session to current symptoms.
When I first started seeing her, I could barely limp into her office. Now I'm working fulltime and just starting to do some light exercise. I don't credit her with all that, but I do know she's helped tremendously.
She has also given me a variety of Chinese herbs. One, cordyceps, I think has been especially beneficial.
Looking forward to an update and hope it's continuing to go well for you!
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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hardynaka
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posted
Up again.
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Acupuncture has always been helpful to me. It's always worth a try, especially for pain and energy balancing.
Cranio-sacral was a bit odd for me. When I had it done, I felt nothing both during and after treatments. It felt so wimpy! Maybe my practitioner wasn't doing it right, but it was so subtle, it was like paying for nothing. The hand movements on my skull were not even noticeable. I figured I would feel something/anything. I am one who likes deep tissue massage, so maybe it was to weak for me. Anyone else? I agree totally that we need to balance western and eastern medicine. This is why integrative care is so nice. I am so sick of docs talking about Chinese medicine as quackery. Closed mindedness has no place in medicine!
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Condor -- I had an amazing response to cranial work last year. Maybe it's what I needed, plus the good skill level of the person doing the work - my chiropractor.
After a 20-minute session, it felt like all my head bones were moved back into place, color came back into my face, and I felt exceedingly tired, like I was going to sleep.
It also relieved pain across the cheekbones. I have had head surgery before, so maybe that was part of the issue for me.
Then two days later, I got my period. Now, I don't usually have one, we think due to high prolactin.
I went to see a former osteopath about that. He thought it was because the membrane at the base of the skull had been moved, thus stimulating the brainstem and on up to the hormonal centers.
We are still quite some amazing biological mysteries!
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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A team of Swiss scientists has been testing different plant extracts and antibiotics IN VITRO and they have found that Samento encourages borrelia to grow instead of inhibiting them. The project isn't finished until next month, it seems that they are not testing for it's immune modulating effects but they are warning people NOT to take it for borrelia.
Posts: 51 | From England | Registered: Oct 2005
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