posted
Marnie, I didn't read the articles on the links but I have been wondering about this for a long time. I took Ribavarin and Interferon for Hep C. The combination was horrible for me, hemoglobin dropped below 8, chest pains, rages, and depression I didn't know I had until I stopped the meds after several months. Dropped out of the study group too.
Curious to have had those neuro symptoms, the same area that plagues me with Lyme. My 2004 rages were frightening when I got Erlichia on top of the Lyme I already had.
Quite sure I had somewhat asymptomatic Lyme nearly all my life, before finding out I had Hep C. So, what happened to me on Ribavarin? Effects of the drug? Lyme or Bart?? awakened?
I was quite well for several years after the Ribavarin/Interferon therapy (until I was bitten (again). Sorry, more questions than answers.
Posts: 422 | From Luck home | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Hubby took this for about a month I think -- was prescribed for Borna Virus which I believe he also got from a tick. Took a low dose as it is rather expensive -- couldn't really tell that it helped and can't really remember him herxing either.
Has been on amantadine for about 3 years now. Thinking of switching to a different antiviral. May try this one again.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Was Rxed it last year for high antibodies to Echovirus 7. I was supposed to take it for a month followed by interferon.
I only lasted a couple weeks on Ribavirin cuz the headahces were excruciating. I believe it is listed as a side effect so I'm not sure if it was a herx but it didn't seem to be.
Tim
Posts: 52 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
quote:Originally posted by mjo: Marnie, I didn't read the articles on the links but I have been wondering about this for a long time. I took Ribavarin and Interferon for Hep C. The combination was horrible for me, hemoglobin dropped below 8, chest pains, rages, and depression I didn't know I had until I stopped the meds after several months. Dropped out of the study group too.
Curious to have had those neuro symptoms, the same area that plagues me with Lyme. My 2004 rages were frightening when I got Erlichia on top of the Lyme I already had.
Quite sure I had somewhat asymptomatic Lyme nearly all my life, before finding out I had Hep C. So, what happened to me on Ribavarin? Effects of the drug? Lyme or Bart?? awakened?
I was quite well for several years after the Ribavarin/Interferon therapy (until I was bitten (again). Sorry, more questions than answers.
Mjo, I have HepC and spent a lot of time at support groups, initially, and decided not to take treatment. I am genotype 1b and so far my liver is in pretty good condition. So my hand wasn;t forced.
My reasoning for not attempting the interferon and ribaviron was the combination was as brutal as you described for every person I know that was on it. They did not have Lyme and I watched as they suffered so greatly from it.
The Ribaviron appeared to be the medication that brought out the truly awful symptoms compared to those that ahd used interferon alone before they came up with the combination therapy.
I don't know what it would be like alone but am too petrified to find out.
Marnie, sorry for pulling a bit off topic but the subject interests me and I am curious how this med acts solo.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Just when I thought I might be onto something, further research makes that drug look far too dangerous.
As an immunosuppressive, it maybe impacting Bb, but it sure as heck impacts the rest of our system in a negative way too.
If you want specifics, links and further information, let me know and I will post.
But along the way as I was researching, I came across some very interesting information:
Inhibition of inosine monophosphate-dehydrogenase by thyroid hormones in vitro
Endocrinology 1968 82: 912-918.
But high Ca levels damage the thyroid cells, so TNF alpha goes up to try to stop this.
The HPA (hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal) axis is thrown off pretty fast....beginning with our "fight"...the adrenals. This impacts another axis..hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid.
Mg leaves the cells (muscle cells) at the outset of lyme in HUGE amts to try to INactivate HMG CoA reductase (prevent Bb's cell wall formation and prevent arteriosclerosis so the antibodies can REACH the pathogen). Mg must also be "available" to help make antibodies, etc. When Mg leaves the muscle cells, this also looks to trigger a cell signal (call bell), NFkB, which is "yelling for" TNF alpha...inflammatory cytokine...upregulating the Th1 pathway...stimulating the bone marrow to produce WBCs which go to the thymus gland to "mature"...T cells.
Some of the WBCs stay around in the bone marrow to mature and become B cells...IL1 Beta. It appears. These are the "fighters" our body is chosing these to fight THIS infection.
It looks like the yelling is ongoing. We gotta get Mg back IN the cells to halt the cell "call bell". Na is displacing Mg as Na is needed to carry choline (which we know Bb wants) INTO the cells. So now we've got Na in the cell and K outside when the "flip" is healthier (more reactive K is supposed to be IN the cells)...and K might be healing...given the fact that Bb doesn't "like" KCL. Too much EXTRAcellular K and I bet you have "left sided" symptoms.
When Mg breaks from ATP and leaves the cell and with high sugar levels decreasing ATP production...less energy for transport of the "ions". There are a lot of pumps we must fix.
***We need more ATP. The oxygen route to making ATP is far, far more efficient. 2 nutrients critical to making ATP are: ribose and creatine. Ribose is also needed to make RNA which happens to differ from DNA in only one way...it contains an oxygen molecule.***
ATP controls the Na-K pump. And it also looks to drive Mg back IN the cells. That wouldn't make Bb happy. It prefers Mn. Enough Mg will displace Zn too...
Cortisol (from the adrenal glands) is being upregulated, impacting the pituitary, impacting the thyroid as well as the hypothalamus.
Cortisol overproduction looks to be a major problem.
High levels of cortisol suppress immune function, promote atherosclerosis, and damage and kill brain cells.
Cortisol has been described by antiaging doctors as one of the "death hormones" our body produces that causes premature aging. Cancer and AIDS patients have exceptionally high levels of cortisol production, causing severe immune suppression that often leads to death.
Why is cortisol up...several reasons...beginning with:
Norepinephrine is the 2nd major neurotransmitter in the body...the other is acetylcholine. It looks like norepinephrine rises to counter acetylcholine.
Sure...the immune system is in "overdrive". For good reason...too many antibodies are damaged due to a Mg deficiency (Mg and Ca are needed to make healthy antibodies), so the body has to find another way...make the entire body acidic. AND it has to counter all that alkaline glycogen (elevated blood sugar) which Bb is triggering via controlling/utilizing PFK...our rate limiting enzyme for glycolysis.
That's not so good. It is best to directly TARGET the pathogen. Prevent Bb's cell wall formation. Step one. INactivate HMG CoA reductase. Stop VLDL release. Get the nutrients needed for some cholesterol ('cause we must have it) from the GOOD fats. Increase the Omega 3s.
Now...here is another reason cortisol levels rise:
Alcohol increases cortisol levels. We know all spirochetes ferment sugar -> ethanol (alcohol).
What else raises cortisol?
Sleep DEPRIVATION raises cortisol levels (to counter, is the body making you sleepy?)
Vitamin C reduces cortisol. Hummm. Vitamin C looks to work with zinc (zinc lozenges are often this combination). Our thymus gland, the "seat of our immunity" needs zinc...but it looks like Bb favors it too? Calprotectin, in our neutrophils (most abundant WBC) bind zinc. I think yeast do too. When and if Bb is destroyed, the sudden "excess" zinc (which is toxic)likely stimulates ADDITIONAL "acids"/proteins to counter.
Acetyl L Carnitine REDUCES cortisol. Like I've said before...thank you Dr. Bruce Ames for Juvenon.
Phosphatidyl Serine REDUCES cortisol. I have read where 300mg per day (divided i.e., 100mg x 3 doses) restores the HPA axis. I have a bottle of NOW Phosphatidyl Serine in front of me. It also contains Ginkgo...60mg of that. While Ginkgo is okay for MOST people, it is NOT okay for my son who has a genetic blood vessel problem (vertebral arteries are "extremely" small). These arteries cannot dilate, so Ginkgo (which looks to cause the blood vessels to dilate), for HIM, can trigger a seizure. On the other hand, the Ginkgo in Pharmanex vitamins which my sis (with lyme) took, LOOKS to have helped HER to avoid "neuro" lyme symptoms.
Okay...enough for now...
Ancora Imparo.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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NP40
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6711
posted
Here's a link to a good anti-viral. A homeopathic LLMD I know has tested this stuff and it scored very high for effectiveness. The site talks about using it for herpes but he said it tested high for a number of different viruses.
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