posted
I have been on Amoxicillin for about a year and have some improvement. Now I am going to start giving myself Bicillin injections. Is anyone else doing that? How is it working out for you? They will be IM so in the thigh muscle.
Posts: 19 | From texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Hi,
If you do a search on Lymenet - click on the Search link, type in Bicillin - you will see there have been lots of discussions about it, including how to try to obtain it (it's difficult) and how to minimize discomfort.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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SForsgren
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posted
I have been doing it about 4 months. No notable impact, but I think that is the rarer case. Since I am doing relatively well, it is sometimes harder to correlate specific treatments to outcomes. The shots can hurt, but not nearly as much as some suggested. I either have someone do them for me or do them myself without any problem.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Jill, thank you for the info. I found the thread you mentioned and it was very helpful.
SF - I will be doing them myself so am interested in any info about that. Do you use the thigh if you do it yourself so you can see what you are doing?
I will do my first one today
Posts: 19 | From texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Farmdog,
I presume you do not have a history of penicillin allergies, that your doctor would not have prescribed it if you did.
I'm just mentioning it because I had to go through a comprehensive allergy workup before being allowed on Bicillin, because of a suspected childhood penicillin allergy.
I was fine, but still was monitored closely the first two injections, because that is when allergic reactions are more likely to happen.
So since you are injecting yourself (I don't), if you have any history of allergies or sensitivies, just be sure there's a friend or family member around for an hour or so after your Bicillin shot - at least the first and second one.
Personally, I'm like Scott, Bicillin hasn't done much for me in terms of improvement, but I think it's keeping the Lyme somewhat stable while I battle Bartonella.
Take care!! Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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David95928
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posted
I've been on Bicillin LA and Biaxin for four years (LONG undiagnosed and untreated) and have made major improvements. In fact. I'm essentially well. Since I've taken both, I can't really say which was more effective. In general, it seems to me that people on Bicillin tend to have stable and relatively uncomplicated recoveries.
Searching the Lymenet archives is a good idea.
One thing, though. Bicillin is not generally given in the thigh. The package insert is specific that it should be injected into the butt. If you have big beefy thighs and are taking 1.2 MU, you might be alright but the 2.4 MU dose comes with a two inch needle and the volume is 4 ml. Giving 2.4 MU in the thigh is pretty much out of the question.
I inject myself in the butt without difficulty although it is a little bit more awkward that injecting into the thigh. Can someone do this for you?
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
David - I don't have someone to inject in the butt so I was going to go with the thigh. How do you do it in the posterior by yourself? I know I could physically do it, but I was thinking more about not being able to see during aspiration to make sure I didn't hit a vein.
Posts: 19 | From texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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David95928
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posted
Farmdog,
Have you injected yourself before? The reason I ask is that Bicillin is not the easiest. If you haven't it might be good to do a couple of practice runs with something cheap and benign like Vitamin B12. Your doctor would probably be alright with this.
One of the factors that might make it easier to do it is that I am pretty lean. At any rate, this is how I would do it on the right side. I get the syringe ready, pull the skin on my right hip forward with my left hand to create a slight Z-track (optional). Then I just inject it using my right hand. I usually use the fingers of my left hand to steady the syringe while I aspirate. Then push it in at a moderate rate, say 10-15 seconds.
To do it on the left side, I just do the opposite, hold the syringe with my left and steady with my right. It's really not difficult with a standard syringe. Bicillin 1.2 MU comes in a tubex and you need a special attachment to be able to use it. It winds up being kind of long and is more difficult to manage. The 2.4 dosage used to comes in a standard syringe.
If you are going to take 1.2 MU, you could get standard 3 ml syringes, remove the needle, maintaining sterility, inject the Bicillin from the tubex to the syringe, replace the needle and you would be good to go. Alternately, you could use a 5 ml syringe, put a couple of ml of Lidocaine in it then inject the Bicillin into it and use the standard syringe to inject yourself. That's what I do. The Lidocain makes it much more comfortable. It's cheap at around $6.00 for a 30 ml vial at CostCo.
As I said, if you have muscular thighs you could probably safely inject 1.2. MU. Talk with your doctor about it. Another point is that, for me, injecting into my thighs is MUCH more uncomfortable. Let me know if you have other questions. I'm pretty much the Bicillin veteran on the board.
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Yes, I have given myself a lot of injections. I was using 4 shots per week. 1.2m units per injection.
I am a male, 5'11, 200lbs. I would give these to myself just below the waist in the fatty area (like love handles) on my backside. I could twist around and reach this area on each side.
I found that if I went into this fatty tissue area, not filled with alot of muscle mass, that I could find areas that had no pain while inserting the needle. This was trial and error, as some places really hurt. Watch out for your siatic (spelling) nerve. I would do these injections at a downward slight angle.
Watch out for reactions as I understand that anyone can become alergic to this at any time.
I did this for about 1 year, and it made a huge difference for me. My lyme went 15-18 years before I found out what the problem was. It took about 3 years of treatment on orals, IV, IM and back on orals to become 98% better. However, I still have problems when I stop the abx. When I am on the abx, I am great most days, can work, play, and live life without most problems.
Good luck to you.
AGuess
Posts: 45 | From NC,USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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David95928
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posted
Bicillin is designed to go IM, ie. intramuscular. I would avoid intentionally injecting into fat for that reason. Apparently, due to poor blood supply in fatty areas, the medicine doesn't get pulled into the system.
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I learned how to inject myself today. Doc trained me how to give myself the injection in the thigh. Showed me how to find the muscle. He also showed me how to give the shots in the butt. The thigh didn't hurt much. Butt hurt a little. Tonight it feels like a flu shot.
Doc said many lyme patients can't inject in the thigh because they have lost some muscle mass and are not in shape. He also thought the syringes that came with my order are smaller than they used to be.
I am using the 1.2 MU dosage. I'd ask your doc what he thinks. I think I may have smaller syringes than the others are talking about.
I was really nervous I wouldn't be able to do this or it would be really painful - but it was a piece of cake compared to the pain of Lyme over the last several years.
Posts: 298 | From Maine | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
boy, i just came across some scary warnings when looking up info about bicillin shots... like making sure not to inject into or near arteries/veins and nerves, which can cause serious problems like needing to amputate fingers and stuff?!?
um, has anyone had or heard of any problems with bicillin shots?
Posts: 98 | From San Francisco | Registered: Oct 2006
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As far as what Grace said above I've never heard of anything in particular concerning Bicillin versus other IM meds that you have to do anything differentily about injection.What she may have been talking about is epinephrine(adrenalin) which is a no-no injecting into fingers and toes etc.
All the rules apply i.e good circular prep with alchohol(inside to out pattern,helps drag any bugs towards the outside of the injection site) Let the alchohol dry as it is this drying the helps break down the bacterial cell menbranes(at least in theory). Injecting in one of the approved injection sites(keeps you away from major nerves and blood/lymphatic vessels(i.e medial glute and vastus lateralis). Aspirating(pulling back slightly on the plunger) right before injecting and making sure no blood has come back into the syringe so you don't inject into a blood vessel.
Just some injection tips.... Bicillin needs to be refrigerated and it is somewhat thick (the refrigeration makes it even thicker) so you need a fairly large bore needle to inject it thru or it will feel like you are trying to push concrete thru a straw.
Now some ways to make it better... it is ok to warm it up by holding it in your hands for a few minutes(3-5) before injecting. This will make injecting much easier and I believe less irritating (at lest initially) to the muscle.
Also, typicaly Bicillin comes in pre-loaded syringes that are extremely dull(the one meant for a carpuject injector in particular).
What you can do is in a sterile fashion transfer the Bicillin to a better syringe /needle combination. Just get some 3 cc syringes and some 21 gauge needles( this is about the smallest you can go and easily inject thru. Remember the smaller the # the larger the needles bore. Some good brands are Terumo or BD for sharpness.
As far as allergies go , you can be allergic to anything and it won't be on the first exposure, but on the 2nd or 2222nd because the body has to build up an antibody or t cell mediated response first. I am not a MD so these are all my personal experiences or opinions.
I mean no disrespect to Grace and if I'm wrong please one of the gurus correct me. I did inject Bicillin and many other meds for ten + years into people and have recently stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
Hope this helps. If you knew all this stuff already I meant no offense.
Travlr1
[ 17. January 2007, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Travlr1 ]
Posts: 66 | From West Coast | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
^ it's in the warnings sections for the top results when you google bicillin.
for example:
(hm, board is not letting me post the link because it contains a parentheses...)
"Inadvertent intravascular administration, including inadvertent direct intra-arterial injection or injection immediately adjacent to arteries, of penicillin G benzathine and other penicillin preparations has resulted in severe neurovascular damage, including transverse myelitis with permanent paralysis, gangrene requiring amputation of digits and more proximal portions of extremities, and necrosis and sloughing at and surrounding the injection site. Such severe effects have been reported following injections into the buttock, thigh, and deltoid areas. "
Posts: 98 | From San Francisco | Registered: Oct 2006
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
The new Bicillin has sharper, better needles - much easier going in. Bicillin now comes with a plunger syringe, so no need for the Tubex I've been using for the past year.
But I think it depends what batches of Bicillin you get, whether you get the Tubex ones or not. My nurse was recently able to get some Bicillin through her medical clinic for me and they are the new all-in-one plunger/syringe/better needle.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
I've been on bicillin for five months now and have seen an big improvement. I've added Rifampin recently and have experienced an even better improvement.
My doctor told me that I could not inject myself and that it must be injected in the buttocks (top outside) definetly not the thighs. I'll have to ask him why he feels that way after hearing some of you are injecting into your thighs.
My pharmacy just told me there is only one company now making the bicillin and the new tubes some here are talking about are the only ones you are going to be able to get soon. I liked the tubex ones much better but then again I was used to them and the medicine came in a much smaller box.
Posts: 547 | From Maryland | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Wow Grace - the doc told me if I hit an artery, I'd see blood in the syringe and I should just pull it back out.
King Pharmaceuticals is the manufacturer. Comes with the preloaded syringe and the needle. I didn't feel the needle going in.
Posts: 298 | From Maine | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
i had some one do mine,but alot of times i did my own,if you sit on a hard chair,let your rump over the edge a few inches,it is very easy to give your own.
Posts: 510 | From NEVERLAND.USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Rianna
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Member # 11038
posted
I have mine injected in to buttock before given (draw back on needle to make sure no blood) as if you hit a vein/artery you are in trouble.
Rianna
[ 03. July 2008, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Rianna ]
Posts: 1172 | From UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
If you look through the archives, I'm pretty sure there is at least one horror story of an adverse reaction when Bicillin was injected wrong, and it was a very scary story. Do not take that risk! Go for the butt only!!
I inject myself in the butt. Here are my tips: - Always ice the area with an ice pack -- 5-10 minutes is enough.
- I go look in the mirror first, and draw a dot where the shot should go in. You should divide the cheek into quadrants, and go for the upper outer quadrant, somewhere in the middle of that quadrant (read up more on this, or watch a video -- don't take my word for it).
- I sterilize an area right next to the dot, so that I don't go right into the dot (don't want ink poisoning), lie face down, make sure nothing is obscuring my view, turn my head around, stick the needle in, pull back to check for blood, and plunge.
- Pull it out quickly when done -- pulling it out slowly just hurts more.
- Try to consciously relax the muscle before you do the shot -- if the muscle is tense, it will hurt.
I keep a phone, Benadryl, and an Epi-pen next to me, in case of an adverse incident (allergic or otherwise).
I've been doing the shots for just over 2 months -- nothing dramatic so far, but I do feel that they are doing something.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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