posted
Did anyone make a positive experience after getting rid of worms?
Just when I was about to start de-worming me, after having read here a lot about the importance of getting rid of parasites first - and after talking my doc into prescribing me Mebendazole - I find this:
Parasites 'may help MS patients' Having millions of parasites living in your gut may actually be a benefit if you also have multiple sclerosis, a study has found.
The methods used by the creatures to stop our immune systems wiping them out could be keeping the illness at bay.
Argentinian scientists looked at 24 MS patients - some with parasitic infections, and some without. The Annals of Neurology study found the parasite-riddled group had far fewer MS 'relapses'.
MS is caused when the body's own immune system turns on the protein sheaths around some of our nerves. Most patients suffer a form called 'relapsing-remitting' MS, in which long periods of stability are punctuated by relapses that involve far more severe symptoms, and which can lead to worsening of day-to-day disability.
Relapse rate
While the cause of the immune attack is not fully understood, many treatments involve suppressing the body's immune system to keep it under control, even though this may cause unwanted side-effects.
Parasites also have to suppress the effects immune system to thrive, and the researchers from the Institute of Neurological Research in Buenos Aires wanted to find out whether this had any knock-on effect on MS.
They looked at 12 patients with relapsing-remitting MS who had been diagnosed with intestinal parasites, and 12 with the same condition - but no parasites.
The infected patients were infested with a variety of different species - tapeworms, nematode worms, whipworms and pinworms. On average, the patients were then followed for more than four years to see how many relapses they suffered during that period.
In the parasite-free group, there were 56 relapses in total, while in those carrying parasites, there were only three.
When the disability levels of the patients were assessed, in the parasite group, only a few had suffered any increase in disability, while most in the non-parasite group were more disabled on a day-to-day basis.
The scientists said it was possible that the parasites were able to influence the production of T-cells - cells which "dampen down" immune reactions within the body, both ensuring their success, and reducing "autoimmune" illnesses such as MS.
"To the best of our knowledge, this is the first study to report chronic exposure to parasites as an environmental factor altering the course of MS in humans," they wrote.
Western illnesses
A spokesman for the MS society said that environmental factors were known to play a role in MS but that the picture 'was not clear'.
"This is an interesting but very preliminary study, and more research is needed to assess its significance.
"Many drugs currently used for the treatment of MS work through immune suppression. "The idea is that this reduces disease activity and gives the nervous system a chance to recover."
Auto-immune diseases, in which the body recognises a part of itself as 'foreign' and attacks it, affect approximately 5% to 7% of people in 'western' countries such as the UK and US.
Some theories - the 'hygiene hypothesis' - suggest that the relatively low levels of bacterial and parasitic infections in these developed countries may be one reason why such diseases, such as Crohn's disease and type I diabetes are more common.
In the US, treatments for autoimmune gut conditions involving swallowing worm eggs have been offered.
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
I read the article that appeared earlier about this research. It is so different or foriegn to my thinking that it is difficult to comment on it. For me, worms should be in the earth and not inside our bodies. I just can't accept this.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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i believe arbitrarily going on a worm killing spree is not wise.
i also believe, when you treat parasites, setting out to 'kill them all' is bad too.
but i believe everyone should be treating parasites and become educated about them, especially if you have chronic illness.
i don't know about it being good with MS to have parasites out of control -- but in general, living in balance we do all have some parasites, and some parasites is normal and natural, and strikes a balance that is healthy.
it is when parasitic infections get out of control, which happens with wrong eating, bad digestion (should be going 3 times a day, with ease and normal stool) -- having any kind of chronic infection can cause parasites to take over, of course, abx will do the same. there are other causes, too, like exposure to the opportunistic strains and/or an immune system or intestinal flora issue to where they are not kept in check by your body.
that said - when you do have parasites running amuck, they can be insideous, and cause problems in every organ of your body, including your brain.
they reproduce like mad, and can cause many, many different symptoms.
since there is no way to accurately test for parasites, i began treatment and gaged my issues based on response, plus signs and symptoms as listed above, and in part the logical assumption that post chronic infection/abx/bad eating and digestion -- i knew odds were extremely high that i had a problem.
i also think odds are most people have a problem, because most people have poor digestion.
you don't need to have abdominal aches and pains to have poor digestion - what you need to measure up against is accurate info on GOOD digestion.
therefore, i think a sensible start is a program like dr. natura's colonix. learn, pay attention, see what you see and feel, and take it from there if you need further treatment or something more specialized.
i believe colonix (the three month program) is a good idea for anyone, and some sort of effective maintainance plan for the rest of your life.
be aware, tho, like everything else this is individualized as far as timing and whatnot, and as GiGi always cautioned -- killing parasites will release bacteria and toxins as they die.
your kidneys and colon also need to be functioning very well before starting, to help you detox. they will need to be cleansed again during and after.
so, some prep work in those areas is also called for.
what i'm trying to say is i do not believe 'shock and awe' blasting with intent to kill every foreign parasite in your body is wise. some people who start dealing with parasites become obsessed with killing every last organism, and i think that is very unwise - because the herbs used to kill parasites can't descriminate between the good and bad organisms, and - because we ultimately want balance and to assist your own bodies defence mechanisms.
at the same time, i believe we all need to be treating parasites regularly and safely and to be educated about them. some parasites will always be with us, and that is normal.
it is very important to have healthy bioterrain in the intestines. once that is out of whack, it takes a great deal of of time and attention and dilligence to return that to balance. if core issues are not continually improved - the suckers come right on back.
i believe it has taken me two years to approach some sence of normalcy in that area. that makes sence to me, becuase i was with chronic lyme and lots of meds for some time as well.
so yes, i treated worms, and yes, it has helped a great deal - but it was allot like treating Lyme. i felt better, worse, then better still, worse again - ect, ect. you have to understand what is going on, and what all the responses mean and you will notice allot of the symptoms and reactions resemble some 'Lyme symptoms'.
you have to stay with it and be smart about it. you will not be able to annialate worms in one shot or one way or even two or three - you don't want to - what you want is to restore balance and take good care of each organ as well as treat out-of-control parasites so your own body can get back to doing what it is meant to do -
parasites never get out of control in a (truly) healthy body.
M.O. (from mo)
[ 20. January 2007, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Mo ]
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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Thanks a lot for your detailled answer. I'm also not completely comfortable with the idea of just throwing in the Mebendazole and kill whatever is inside me.
It's just that Dr. Jadin, who's protocol I'm doing right now, is de-worming her patients twice a year. And if it's important to get well I'll do it.
I had been thinking also once about Dr. Natura's colon cleanse and had asked the question here if somebody had really success with it. But seems like not too many here have done it.
What exactly have you done against worms? I took 10 weeks of one of the Rizoles which is said to help against parasites but I didn't see anything wormy coming out of me...
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by bluelamp: So we're totally NOT talking about Babesia right
NO, just parasites in the intestinal tract, which can get into other organs. That's why I think we all need to get rid of whatever we can.
Whewww. Thanks for the answer.
I just started my new course of Mepron yesterday and it is already irritating me. I tolerate it fairly well but I know that it is "working" because I feel like a 4 letter word.
Anyway, back to the original topic at hand...
Posts: 20 | From Ga | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Gabrielle: I had been thinking also once about Dr. Natura's colon cleanse and had asked the question here if somebody had really success with it. But seems like not too many here have done it.
If you will do a search here under "Dr Natura" you will find ALOT of discussion on it. I've used it and liked it alot.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Gabrielle, good to hear about you here! How are you doing with dentist work? Did you feel improvement in your jaw pain?
I'm on my 6th week of Rizols (the Ipsylon from INK). I believe they messed a bit with my wonderful intestines. I do believe they kill good stuff there too. I'm on 20 drops a day, ingested, plus foot baths.
I'm taking again probiotics because of Rizols. After Theralac and other stuff about 2-3 times a week, things have come pretty next to the 100% well they were now.
I never did the strong parasite cleanses people recommend, that's why I didn't answer your post. I was not infected with lyme for very long, so maybe I didn't get the stronger parasitic infections??
But I did the KMT cleanses. I can tell you that the toxins coming out were very strong. I could branch the program for about 10 minutes in the first day and felt extreme fatigue coming. Like almost fainting. I stopped the program and slowly got better.
Every day, I increased the number of minutes on the GI program, and could eventually reach the 6 hours or so. I had sweating, dizziness, you name it. After about a few days, I felt my energy increasing, my bowel movements getting clearly better. Mo is then very right when she speaks about toxins with the die off. Strong!
the first time I treated brain and GI parasites coincided with my first days I thought I could get out of hell. It was my first week I felt full of energy again since I fell sick. But I treated both brain and GI parasites, so I can't tell which made me feel better that way.
I also used frozen garlic with the KMT sessions. I also remember having a pretty good impression with that product. No other garlic product had caused me that strong impression. And I had tried quite a few different brands.
After a few weeks/ months (?) on frozen garlic, I felt no improvement at all, but as I told you, my GI tract works perfect as it hadn't for decades, much before lyme.
Rizols did nothing to make my intestines better so far. On the contrary, I believe. I was not taking it for bowel problems, but for funghi and bartonella. For funghi, it works reasonably but not perfect (I guess I need to metal detox more), for bartonella is not very effective (but alleviates symptoms).
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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Nice to talk to you again - I know - it's my fault, I have been extremely lazy in writing these last months. Sorry about that. I'll send you a mail with an update on me.
I didn't know the INK is selling the Rizoles now. Have to check that out. Sorry to hear that they messed up your digestion.
When you did the KMT sessions against parasites - did you at any time see anything looking like worms or parasites leaving your body?
I have no problems with digestion either, as long as I'm on abx. But when I had my 4 months break last summer, problems (constipation) started to come back after 2 months. But within 2 days back on abx everything was perfect again. That sounds to me like a bacterial problem.
So I don't know if I really have worms. If I have them, they don't seem to make any trouble.
Take care,
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
hey, farmers and pet owners deworm animals twice a year - and they aren't eating as badly as we do, lol.
so, why not humans?
gabbrielle, i can come back later and let you know what i have used. several different things, and i started out wanting to send bombs down there in little gel caps - and did so, but learned that wasn't going to do the trick on it's own.
mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I used Paranil from Dr. Natura and believe that it really helped me, especially towards the end of treating the Babs.
I am a little confused about how the MS study relates to those of us with Lyme. With MS, it sounds like you'd want to suppress the immune system, while most of us are trying to strengthen our immune response.
Logically, you'd want to reduse anything in the system that would compromise immune strength, like parasites.
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Gabrielle, I already answered your email.
As for Rizols, they're not listed in the normal list of the INK. You gotta ask by phone. They moved though recently.
They cost about 10 euro for a 10ml bottle. You can get all of the rizols (about 6-8 types??) for about 40 euro, if my memory is good. They don't name them by their component, but by greek letters, don't ask me why...
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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When I heard this in the German news I only remembered them saying that the worms excrete some antiinflammatory stuff and as Lyme is an inflammatory disease I thought GREAT...
Then I looked for an English text to post it here and didn't read it in detail anymore. So, I've completely missed the part with the supression of the immune system
But that would mean that MS isn't caused by an infection as I am suspecting - or the conclusion of the study is wrong that the worms are supressing the immune system.
Thank you for paying better attention than I was.
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Gab- In spite of feeling better physically these days, I feel as though I'm going stupid again three weeks off the abx.
Last time it crept up on me along with with some low grade physical symptoms. I hope I'm imagining it, but then,does that mean am I going delusional? YIKS!!
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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