I was enroute to see my LLMD today. The plane went barreling down the runway 150-200mph when there was a chemical smell, a loud popping noise and then the pilot aborted the flight. We skidded 400 feet off the end of the runway and landed in the snow & dirt.
I was flung forward & back. My back & neck have muscle spasms going on. I was taken by ambulance to the local Major Medical Center.
When I told them I had Lyme, their eyes rolled. When I asked if Babesia could have caused my muscle twitching, they said that it's an infection. Infections don't cause that.
So, am I the one who is wrong? I wish my LLMD had been at the ER to tell them the truth.
I'm really shook by the accident. It was sooo scary! I don't know who or what to believe anymore.
Am I crazy? Is this all in my head? How could a person dream up such symptoms, anyway.
I am so sore & hurting tonight. Thankfully I have no broken bones or anything like that. But my muscles are very, very sore & spasming in my low back, low abdomen, neck/shoulder.
Thanks for listening. I have no LLMD here. I really need one or at least some dr. who is lyme friendly & is intelligent enough to handle all my numerous other medical problems.
Kayda
Posts: 582 | From midwest | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
Kayda, I'm sorry to learn about the accident. That was really terrible timing for it to happen when you are going to see your LLMD.
I do not doubt your physical symptoms at all. It's not a sign of being crazy. It is like your body is telling you how traumatized it is.
Have you called your LLMD's office and explained your situation? This would be even more of a priority if the hospital gave you something like steriods to reduce the inflamation or other signs of injury.
I'm not a doctor, but want to give you some support. Hang in there.
luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Kayda,
I'm so thankful you survived your plane crash.
Like Pigwit, I agree that your symptoms are real.
The cause though is another story. There is a cause and LLMDs are taking the "lyme and other infectious cause" stand. Other doctors think this is nonsense though they just don't seem to have other answers.
I know my illness has an infectious cause. I do not KNOW that Lyme is the main culprit. I've had a history of infectious illnesses, some from viral, some from bacterial and some from fungi. So, the odds that infection is not my cause are slim to none.
Still, if I had no history of infections, I would still believe my symptoms are real. I just wouldn't know what direction to take. I believe yours are too.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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MagicAcorn
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8786
posted
Dear Kayda,
Probably intelligence played a huge factor in this. You know you are on a plane and something is not right. You are barreling and then you skid. Every muscle in your body went into full alert.
This isn't a car this is a plane and plane crashes are bad. Your body spasming is probably the aftershock of your bodies intuitive response to the panic messages it got from your brain.
I don't think I would have even been thinking about lyme, though. To be honest, I would have figured it was from the mental stress of what I had just been through.
Hope you feel better today. Watch out for ambulance chasers today. Some are notorious for hunting down victims of any mishap.
Good luck and I'm glad it wasn't any worse than it was. You are a lucky lady whether you believe it or not. Had the spill happened on takeoff and not on the runway we wouldn't be reading your post this morning but maybe more about who was on that doomed flight.
You did buy a lotto ticket didn't you? Because, 1/21/07 was your lucky day. You and everyone on that flight got a do over.
-------------------- Posts: 1279 | From In hiding | Registered: Feb 2006
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
I have not heard good things from other posters about their experiences in ER when they explain they have LD.
So glad your safe. What an ordeal! Gosh, if it isn't one thing it is another...
Claire Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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northstar
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7911
posted
When I told them I had Lyme, their eyes rolled. ....... So, am I the one who is wrong?
No, you are not wrong. And it was ignorant and rude of them to react that way.
I would speculate that emergencies can cause an adrenalin rush, which affects neurotransmittors and hormones, chemical balances, etc. which affects other sytems which may be temporarily damaged.
I would speculate that lyme would be more the culprit here, than babesia, because of possible demyelization and central nervous system involvement.
N/
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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Good news is I think you are very lucky to have made it out of that situation!
Bad news: any sudden stop motion like that can do quite a number on our Lyme(co) tissues. I had to see my chiropractor right away after a subway train accident that involved a sudden stop. He had to treat me for awhile.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Osp: Did they literally roll their eyes like this?
If so, I'd make an official complaint to the state.
That's a good idea!
Yes, I keep quiet about Lyme unless I HAVE to tell ER folks about it.
Kayda, I am SOOOOO glad your pilot did the right thing!! I think you're very lucky to be here today.
I do agree with Robin who said a trip to the chiropractor might be a good idea. They can help you calm down those muscles and prevent further damage.
Take care of yourself, OK?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
I am so sorry you went through this but am grateful it was not worse, especially considering all the crazy weather going on right now.
I've been in a couple of bad car accidents, pre-Lyme. I got whiplash (thoracic outlet syndrome) both times from being flung forward and back.
I ended up needing follow-up appointments with neurologists, physical therapists, chiropractors, orthopedists, etc. because there was nerve and disc involvement.
My back would spasm on and off for a long time. I had to be on muscle relaxants. You may need a prescription for that, too, just to try to calm things down.
Whether or not Lyme/coinfections are involved, I don't know. Our bodies are already under so much stress from illness, anything could add to that.
But simply the physical impact of what you went through could do it.
I did find going to a chiropractor helped me a lot, along with muscle relaxants, putting heat on the area, getting some ultrasound therapy at physical therapy.
You might want to ask your LLMD or primary care doctor for some referrals to other doctors or therapy for this - they can't roll their eyes at you if you just say you were in a plane accident!
Let us know what happens. Take care, Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Wow... First off...you are sooo lucky that your plane was on the ground during its troubles! That is a miracle and blessing. Im happy to hear you are ok for the most part.
Regarding your LLMD. Let him/her know what happened and request an over the phone appt. Is this your first consult???
Anyhow, God bless and sorry about your scary experience. I cant imagine. You are obviously here still for a reason! To get well and live life. Posts: 160 | From california | Registered: Dec 2006
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
kay, i'm so sorry to read about your accident/injuries, but it's like acorn said; yesterday you won the lottery and all survived!
at our local hospital, after every visit for: short stay, ER, surgery/hospital stays, they send a FEEDBACK FORM to complete.
you bet i complete mine with the NEGATIVES as well as their strong points.
if yours doesn't offer this, write a letter to the hospital CEO for their info/action! WE LYMIES DO NOT DESERVE TO BE TREATED THIS WAY! UNACCEPTABLE!
i hope you can get some relief soon. so glad you're alive to have written this! thoughts/prayers/hugs/kisses headed your way kay!
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Oh, dear Kayda! I can't imagine how frightening that must have been! I'm very thankful everyone survived. I agree that the shock and velocity of being thrown back and forth in your seat has likely given you really severe muscle spasms. At a minimum.
Most doctors who have even a clue can palpate (feel) muscles that are in spasm.
I would want xrays and an MRI. They may resist an MRI until you've taken "conservative" measures first and failed to improve.
Of course, I hope you DO improve.
Call your LLMD; he'll be glad to know you survived and will have some sound advice.
I agree you're really lucky, all things considered!
Hugs,
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
wow! Kayda! You are so lucky to be alive you must have some good angels watching over you. You survive lyme & a plane crash you must have a powerful purpose to be still lived here on earth.
Don't let those eye rollars get to you. I would report them & then move on with my life. I wish I had a dollar for every time a duck rolled his eyes or gave me cr@p about not believing in lyme, I could have retired by now. But like Michelle said -they are clueless but they still should act more professional. gerrrr duck motels are the worst.
Rest and take it easy . When you are in a crash mode your muscles tense and when you are a lymie it could take a while to heal longer.
So go easy & slow maybe some warm soaks and lots of rest. Maybe some ibus? Maybe something to help your muscles to relax? Did you get a chance to talk to your LLMD yet?
hope you are feeling better soon Hugs Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Thank you for all your replies. I have much to be thankful for: mainly that the plane wasn't airborne when the engine blew, & that the plane didn't spin out.
I'm really sore & stiff today. The row of seats in front of us had only 2 seats and my row had 3 seats. I was sitting on the aisle seat with no seat in front of me. My seat was the only one like this on the plane.
When the plane skidded forward at 150-200 mph it whipped me forward with such force I think my shoulders hit my knees. Since there was no seat in front of me, there wasn't anything to brace myself with. There was no shoulder restraint either.
When the plane halted, it threw me backward into my seat. Immediately I felt something torque in my low back & had muscle spasms in my low back & neck.
It was awful. But it could have been so much worse & I'm thankful it wasn't.
Thanks for all the well wishes, thoughts & prayers.
Kayda
Posts: 582 | From midwest | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
Kayda, this is more than a whiplash -- it's a planelash! Wow. I'm going to say it again -- do you know a good chiropractor? Your bones might be out of place from this experience. It's my comment only -- I am not a doctor. But I go to one.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
Kayda, You made our newspaper. Picture of the plane on page 3.
Monday, January 22, 2007 Milwaukee (AP) (excerpt)
No serious injuries were reported in the late morning incident. One passenger on the DC-9 was treated for a sore back, airline officials said.
posted
Kayda: Glad for the most part, you are okay. Relieved that it happened on the ground and not the air. I was on an airplane that blew an engine, while in my teenage years. It was scary.I understand what you have gone through.Lyme and the coinfections are real, and you heal longer than most people. Try to get some professional care like a chiropracter to help the muscles. Thoughts and positive energy your way, friend.
Posts: 719 | From Delaware | Registered: Jan 2006
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borrelia cause us to "set-off" our own enzymes that, when set-off, digest different kinds of connective tissues. at least one kind of metallo-proteinase, called mmp9 does this.
some kinds of connective of tissues are ligaments, tendons, for example.
partly digested, they are weaker. physical stressors, like swimming, weight lifting, sudden impacts causing pulls, micro-/large tears,shears further make them weaker, and manifest as a significant part of what you feel.
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Borrelia spirochetes upregulate release and activation of matrix metalloproteinase gelatinase B (MMP-9) and collagenase 1 (MMP-1) in human cells. * Gebbia JA, * Coleman JL, * Benach JL. Department of Pathology, Center for Infectious Diseases, State University of New York at Stony Brook, Stony Brook, New York 11794, USA. Borrelia burgdorferi, the spirochetal agent of Lyme disease, stimulated human peripheral blood monocytes to release pro-matrix metalloproteinase-9 (gelatinase B; pro-MMP-9) and active matrix metalloproteinase-1 (collagenase-1; MMP-1). Human neutrophils also released pro-MMP-9 and a 130-kDa protein with gelatinolytic activity in response to live B. burgdorferi. In addition, U937 cells and human keratinocyte cells were also stimulated to release pro-MMP-9 under the same conditions. However, human umbilical vein endothelial cells (HUVECs) released pro-MMP-9 and pro-MMP-2 in a constitutive manner and were not influenced by live spirochetes. MMPs produced by human monocytes also enhanced the penetration of B. burgdorferi through extracellular matrix component barriers in vitro. Plasmin stabilized on the surface of the Lyme disease spirochete was shown to activate pro-MMP-9 to its active form. This active form was also observed in the plasma of mice infected with a relapsing fever borrelia. These results suggest that borreliae can upregulate MMPs and possibly mediate an activation cascade initiated by plasmin bound to the microbial surface. MMPs may play a role in dissemination of the Lyme disease spirochete and in the pathogenesis of Borrelia infection. PMID: 11119537
=============== Upregulation of matrix metalloproteinase-9 in the cerebrospinal fluid of patients with acute Lyme neuroborreliosis Annette Kirchnera, Uwe Koedela, Volker Fingerleb, Robert Paula, Bettina Wilskeb, Hans-Walter Pfistera a Department of Neurology, Klinikum Gro hadern, Ludwig-Maximilians- University, Munich, Germany, b Max von Pettenkofer Institute of Hygiene and Microbiology Correspondence to: Professor Hans-Walter Pfister, Department of Neurology, Ludwig-Maximilians University, Marchioninistrasse 15, 81377 Munich, Germany Received 19 November 1998 and in revised form 13 October 1999; Accepted 28 October 1999 It was investigated (1) whether metalloproteinase-9 (MMP-9), MMP-3, and tissue inhibitor of matrix metalloproteinase-1 (TIMP-1, the natural tissue inhibitor of MMP-9) are increased in the CSF of patients with Lyme neuroborreliosis and (2) whether macrophages can express MMP-9 when stimulated with Borrelia burgdorferi. Zymography showed MMP-9 activity in 26 of 31 (84%) CSF samples from patients with acute stage 2 Lyme neuroborreliosis, but not in 20 controls with non-inflammatory neurological disorders. Activity of MMP-2 was detected in all CSF samples in both patients with neuroborreliosis and controls, suggesting a constitutive release of MMP-2. Using enzyme linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) MMP-3 (which can activate MMP-9) was detected in low concentrations in the CSF of 13 of 29 patients with neuroborreliosis, but not in controls. TIMP-1 was increased twofold in CSF samples from patients with neuroborreliosis in comparison with the controls. MMP-9 activity was induced in vitro in a mouse macrophage cell line (RAW 264.7) when stimulated with two different genospecies of B burgdorferi (B garinii, B afzelii ). This MMP-9 activity was reduced in a dose dependent manner when macrophages stimulated with B burgdorferi were coincubated with NF- B SN50, a cell permeable peptide which inhibits the translocation of NF- B into the nucleus of stimulated cells. The data show that (1) MMP-9 activity is present in the CSF of patients with neuroborreliosis, (2) macrophages stimulated with B burgdorferi are a possible source of MMP-9 increase, and (3) activation of NF- B may play a part in the upregulation of MMP-9 by B burgdorferi.
J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry. 2000 Mar;68(3):368-71 Upregulation of matrix metalloproteinase-9 in the cerebrospinal fluid of patients with acute Lyme neuroborreliosis. * Kirchner A, * Koedel U, * Fingerle V, * Paul R, * Wilske B, * Pfister HW. Department of Neurology, Klinikum Grobetahadern, Ludwig-Maximilians- University, Munich, Germany. It was investigated (1) whether metalloproteinase-9 (MMP-9), MMP-3, and tissue inhibitor of matrix metalloproteinase-1 (TIMP-1, the natural tissue inhibitor of MMP-9) are increased in the CSF of patients with Lyme neuroborreliosis and (2) whether macrophages can express MMP-9 when stimulated with Borrelia burgdorferi. Zymography showed MMP-9 activity in 26 of 31 (84%) CSF samples from patients with acute stage 2 Lyme neuroborreliosis, but not in 20 controls with non-inflammatory neurological disorders. Activity of MMP-2 was detected in all CSF samples in both patients with neuroborreliosis and controls, suggesting a constitutive release of MMP-2. Using enzyme linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) MMP-3 (which can activate MMP-9) was detected in low concentrations in the CSF of 13 of 29 patients with neuroborreliosis, but not in controls. TIMP-1 was increased twofold in CSF samples from patients with neuroborreliosis in comparison with the controls. MMP-9 activity was induced in vitro in a mouse macrophage cell line (RAW 264.7) when stimulated with two different genospecies of B burgdorferi (B garinii, B afzelii ). This MMP-9 activity was reduced in a dose dependent manner when macrophages stimulated with B burgdorferi were coincubated with NF-kappaB SN50, a cell permeable peptide which inhibits the translocation of NF-kappaB into the nucleus of stimulated cells. The data show that (1) MMP-9 activity is present in the CSF of patients with neuroborreliosis, (2) macrophages stimulated with B burgdorferi are a possible source of MMP-9 increase, and (3) activation of NF-kappaB may play a part in the upregulation of MMP-9 by B burgdorferi. PMID: 10675223
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
for starters, suggested search terms on medline
1. matrixmetalloproteinases + klempner
2. " + arthritis 3. " + lyme, or borreliosis 4. 5. " + connective tissue 6. 7. " + ligaments 8. " + tendons MMPs + tetracycline class of antibiotics. i think one, or more of teh tets. may supress one or more mmps, but verify.
9. much on klempner and matrix-metalloproteinases and borreliosis can be found on http://www.actionlyme.org. when here, look in left-margin column for klempner's name.
posted
Tutu- yeah... i guess i "let loose" with some files... the posts are related, in that, something like this causes shear and pulls on tendons, and ligaments, from the small, thin tendons, and ligaments linking, muscle to bones, and vertebrae/bones,respectively.
mmp9, other mmps, and inflammation cause weakeng and destruction of connective tissues of most if not all types.
sports medicine, and arthritis journals(osteo-,and rheu-) would address the issues of physical impacts on tendons, and ligaments, a lot more specifically.
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Thanks for posting this info. I have a lot of this tendon, ligament stuff to deal with.
Kayda
Posts: 582 | From midwest | Registered: Nov 2006
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
Ever since I had Lyme I've had a lot of ligament or tendon injuries, and I'm pretty sure they weren't just aging (I got it at 27 or so). Once I took antibiotics and got other treatment that ligament stuff got better very rapidly after having resisted treatment for years. But a chiropractor or good sports massage therapist can do wonders on ligament/tendon conditions even if you're weakened by illness (lots of conditions besides Lyme do connective tissue damage that slows down healing). They certainly know how to handle back injuries from auto accidents.
You should be able to make the airline pay for chiropractic, assuming you're strong enough to fight for this. Find a family member to help you if they're resistant to paying for it (I of course have no idea what the 'insurance' procedure on air accident injuries is like)- it can be very hard with Lyme to persist in fighting bureaucracy or things like that.
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