posted
I was wondering since CELIAC is an emerging disease.
Could CELIAC really be casued by the infection we get from lyme and or co-infections?
We know that lyme and co-infection end up living in the intestines.
Perhaps the lyme and co-infections are damaging the microvilli of the intestine wall.
Perhaps all the people with celiac have lyme or co-infections and just don't know it yet.
-------------------- Nov-08 NutraMedix, BurBur Pinella WORKS, Japanese Knotweed, d-Lenolate, ALC, Was on Salt/C 1.5 yrs ended in 06 My brain is working better!!
Feeling very good now Posts: 182 | From Northern, NJ, USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I don't know but this brings up an interesting topic. We have a nnegihbor girl who is special needs...learning disability, brain development problems, speech problems, tantrums etc. I've always wondered if she has lyme.
I'd love to here what others think.
Posts: 911 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
My doc says: If you have Celiac you also have Lyme.
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
I've asked several LLMDs, my own and others, about the Celiac-Lyme link. That's because I had gone gluten-free before being bitten, and whenever I have conversations with other patients in my LLMDs waiting room, about four out of five of us will have celiac disease.
However, some people develop celiac or some other gluten issues prior to be bitten, some after.
I used to be the newsletter writer for my local celiac support group and was really immersed in the celiac community prior to Lyme.
For true Celiac Disease, which is autoimmune, one must carry the DQ2 or DQ8 or both genes. It is a genetic disease, but not all people with this gene develop Celiac Disease so there are obviously other triggers, whether environmental, or perhaps bacterial as you say.
The Celiac genes are closely related to genetic predisposition to autoimmune thyroid disease (which many of us with Lyme also have) and to Type 1 diabettes.
Many people with Lyme develop some degree of gluten sensitivity, some a full-blown food intolerance which is Celiac Disease. There are many degrees of gluten allergy/sensitivity/intolerance/autoimmune.
Celiac Disease is a disease of intestinal permeability. Much of the current Celiac Disease research is being done to study how to close the junctures of the intestines that are letting the gluten leak from the intestines to the bloodstream.
All that being said, my local celiac support group is large and they are able to improve or eradicate their symptoms by following a gluten-free diet. I was already on a gluten-free diet when getting bitten and I continued to get sick.
I do not think all Celiacs have Lyme. Many Celiacs do have gluten ataxia and other symptoms that are neurological and similar to Lyme. I think there can be some crossover, but as I say, I'm continuing to be sick with Lyme, everyone else in my celiac disease is doing great on just a gluten-free diet.
I think Lyme causes gluten problems, but that not all Celiacs have Lyme.
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Hi Jill E. I think it is possible that they all have Lyme/co-infect living in their intestines AND NO PLACE ELSE.
That is why they are doing better than you at this time.
Please keep an eye on them and watch.
See if after some period of stress emotional or physical the lyme/co-infect move to other parts of their bodies.
-------------------- Nov-08 NutraMedix, BurBur Pinella WORKS, Japanese Knotweed, d-Lenolate, ALC, Was on Salt/C 1.5 yrs ended in 06 My brain is working better!!
Feeling very good now Posts: 182 | From Northern, NJ, USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Interesting. Around when my symptoms started, I developed chronic diarrhea. Which I still have. I was diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome.
I did get tested for Celiac disease, but I guess it came up border line. I had an upper endoscope to biopsy and confirm Celiac disease. And it said I didn't have Celiac disease.
But I am interesed if Lyme can cause chronic diarrhea.
Posts: 310 | From TN | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
I have had an IBS in my small intestine now for several years since I was on Doxy.
I have also been constipated since then.
I have been on the "Elanie Gottschall diet" "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" for a few weeks now and doing much better.
I can only eat about 1-1/2 cups of food at a time or my small intestine stretchs too much opening up something andthen hurts or pluses or burns.
Jasonsmith check this diet out! It will help you.
-------------------- Nov-08 NutraMedix, BurBur Pinella WORKS, Japanese Knotweed, d-Lenolate, ALC, Was on Salt/C 1.5 yrs ended in 06 My brain is working better!!
Feeling very good now Posts: 182 | From Northern, NJ, USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by jasonsmith: I did get tested for Celiac disease, but I guess it came up border line. I had an upper endoscope to biopsy and confirm Celiac disease. And it said I didn't have Celiac disease.
But I am interesed if Lyme can cause chronic diarrhea.
Yes, Lyme can cause diarrhea...most definitely!!
Unless you were ingesting heavy amounts of wheat/gluten prior to the test, it can easily show up as negative.
I had a negative biopsy in 1980, but I had been avoiding wheat for about 5 yrs prior. I'm SURE now that that caused the test result I got.
I continued to avoid wheat for the past 26 yrs, but I then began to react severely to gluten.
Go to the website I gave and ask some questions!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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breathwork
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 567
Gluten comes from wheat, rye, barley and some oats (those transported in the same trucks as wheat and those processed in the same plants as wheat, barley or rye.
True celiac disease is an autoimmune disease. The gluten that we eat triggers an autoimmune respose, antibodies to the lining of the small intestine. These antibodies, over time, destroy the lining of the small intestine and thus the body's ability to absorb nutrients and medications apropriately.
Gluten is in almost everything made commercially. It's what makes bread springy...It's what makes the coatings on roasted chicken adhere while being roasted...it's sticky. It's in Soy Sauce and malt, and can also be found in our medications. It sticks stuff together.
It is possible to maintain a gluten free diet as my family has managed to do, but it takes some education and dedication.
I wonder how many of us are unable to absorb our medications well, and how many of us are taking medications which contain gluten? We have to ask our pharmacists every time we have our meds refilled...each generic form could have added gluten.
Celiac Diseas also has another manifestation...the body cannot abosorb fats properly in the intestine. If one has that aspect of Celiac, forget absorbing Mepron properly and maintainly the right blood level of the medication. Mepron must bind with fat to be absorbed. A fecal fat test will uncover this more unsavory part of Celiac.
So, check out the websites on Celiac Disease... Negative blood tests can't determine if a person doesn't have Celiac Disease. An Endoscopy with biopsy is the next step.
Carol Ann
Posts: 1062 | From CA USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I don't think having gluten sensitivity or celiac means you also have Lyme. However, there may be a connection that when you are exposed to Lyme that you are more likely to react somehow to it.
Maybe people who carry the genes for celiac and gluten sensitivity have a predisposition toward becoming ill with lyme or more ill than others who don't carry the gene.
I have no medical research to support this opinion. Just my own mental wanderings.
Posts: 984 | From San Diego | Registered: Nov 2006
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I did get tested for Celiac disease, but I guess it came up border line. I had an upper endoscope to biopsy and confirm Celiac disease. And it said I didn't have Celiac disease.
But I am interesed if Lyme can cause chronic diarrhea.
Yes, Lyme can cause diarrhea...most definitely!!
Unless you were ingesting heavy amounts of wheat/gluten prior to the test, it can easily show up as negative.
I had a negative biopsy in 1980, but I had been avoiding wheat for about 5 yrs prior. I'm SURE now that that caused the test result I got.
I continued to avoid wheat for the past 26 yrs, but I then began to react severely to gluten.
Go to the website I gave and ask some questions!
Where did you find that Lyme can cause chronic diarrhea? I've never read that before.
Thanks
Posts: 310 | From TN | Registered: Jan 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
from treepatrol's newbie links archive....
Lyme Disease and Celiac Disease MEDLINE - Celiac Disease [or coeliac] AND Lyme disease - 1 on 29 Jan 01 MEDLINE - Celiac Disease [or coeliac] AND spirochetes - 1 on 29 Jan 01 MEDLINE - Celiac Disease [or coeliac] - 13,726 on 29 Jan 01
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Medscape Clinical Full-Text: Lyme Disease and Celiac Disease - 0 on 12 Feb 00 Medscape News: Lyme Disease and Celiac Disease - 0 on 12 Feb 00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Celiac Disease May Be Equally Common in US And Europe
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breathwork
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 567
posted
the gene that causes Celiac Disease can remain untriggered for your entire life....Or it can be triggered by a period of stress or illness.
Lyme certainly qualifies as an illness that could trigger the underlying genetic programming to kick in and begin the autoimmune cycle.
Once triggered, this process cannot be reversed. You will always have celiac disease. However, the symptoms and damage to the small intestine can be reversed by a careful gluten free diet.
Celiac isn't actually an emerging disease. It has been well known for ages in the Europe and Japan.
For some reason, American doctors decided that the genetic propensity for Celiac disappeared somehow as Europeans or Japanese people crossed the oceans traveling to America. Pretty scientific eh?
I believe it's simply not realizing....and stupid.
The NIH did a stuy two years ago to determine the prevalence of Celiac Disease in the US. They found the same numbers as in Europe...one in thirteen has the gene.
Since that time they have been trying to educate Gastroenterologists and Family Practice Physicians about Celiac Disease. This is taking a woefully long period of time.
So, it's really not an emerging disease. It's been here all along, just grossly unrecognized by US doctors.
What I find interesting is that many of us long term lyme patients are also gluten intolerant or have frank Celiac Disease. There has to be some connection, but I don't know what it is. Celiac does not cause lyme disease, but it may contribute to it's beign difficult to treat in some patients.
It is an autoimmune disease, just as some posit Lyme is. tiny amounts of gluten will trigger the immune system to produce antibodies to the small intestine. It's not about the amount of gluten that is consumed. It's about the consumption of ANY level of gluten triggering the autoimmune reaction.
I know that I can't take Mepron for babesia as my intestines do not process fats properly and Mepron requires bonding with fat to be absorbed well. This is one manifestation of celiac.
Gluten in our medications is a big problem for me too. Particularly if the medication is under patent and produced by only one manufacturer.
So, you see it's a bit complicated. However, it's important to know that Celiac is a genetically determined disease triggered by stress, trauma or other infection. Lyme counts as an infection and stressor.
How the two dance with one another after that point is the big mystery for me...and one I would very much like to see studied.
Posts: 1062 | From CA USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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LisaS
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10581
posted
quote: Celiac Disease is a disease of intestinal permeability. Much of the current Celiac Disease research is being done to study how to close the junctures of the intestines that are letting the gluten leak from the intestines to the bloodstream.
So is celiac disease and leaky gut the same thing?
Foggy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1584
posted
This is something to rule out. I had an ind then - blood tests. My skin test was - & my endoscopy & biopsy was -.
I tried the diet to see if it would lessen my fog and it didn't I felt really lousy on the diet & it was ex$pensive.
Posts: 2451 | From Lyme Central | Registered: Aug 2001
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