Marz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3446
posted
I just did a search so I could PM whoever it was who mentioned recently that you could email Buhner with a question, but my brain is in meltdown and can't find it.
I've googled and can't find it that way either.
I'm on ceftin and recently added Andrographis. My finger joints next to nail are getting lumps and are sore. This happens to me with soy and an antidepressant my LLMD gave me and it went away when when I quit them.
Anyone else have this experience with Andrographis?? I really wanted this to work!
posted
I have been on andro a couple of weeks and have HAD no ADVERSE reactions , just intense die off for a week that was worse than any ABX I have had . The stuff killls pathogens!
There are many others here on it , and I started it because I was impressed that they felt better after a few months of taking it . MUCH BETTER . I do not know ANYONE who has ever felt MUCH Better after afew months of ANY DRUG , though there may be a few . I have had a year and a half of ABX , with minimal benefit .
The reports on andro, from folks who WERE EXTREMELY sick , cause me to believe that it is worth continuing , along with the documentation of its use by DOCTORS in other countries for serious diseases .
I do not have a good answer , but sort of doubt your strange symptoms are a result of the andro . However, you could stop it and see.
posted
The place to go to email Buhner is: Planet Thrive.
You should be able to Google it. Maybe someone will come along with the exact URL so you can get there that way.
Andro is excellent for Lyme. However I would not personally just take it by itself. You need the WHOLE protocol. Plus liver support.
Have you read the book by Stephen Harrod Buhner, titled Healing Lyme? Get it, it will be the best money you ever spent. Then study it and act upon what you learn.
hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
It'll take a few weeks to get your answer, and I dont' know if he answers all questions. Maybe Julie from Planet thrive can tell us??
I didn't have this reaction either. I would drop the amount to 1/2 or even 1/4 of a pill each time and slowly increasing.
I don't know why all you guys start with the hardest of all herbs and NOT by what ALL Buhner people recommend: starting with sarsaparilla first!!!
Sarsaparilla also kills but cleanses your body, reducing herxes. Then add cats claw, for example, that helps immune system. Then add knotweed, that will cross brain barrier and also kills. Then in the end andro, that is the hardest killer for most of us. That would be a help already.
Andro would be taken easier if being the last of the core protocol herbs, as it does kill a lot if you take the 10% andrographolide pill.
Buhner himself DOESN'T think anymore that's andrographis the herb number 1 in his core protocol. He thinks Knotweed is helping more people than andro, based on feedback he's receiving. Besides knotweed helps knocking down bartonela.
Note that if andrographis was my herb number 1 for killing, I didn't start with andro and I stayed with core protocol for a long time together with andro(for about a year), except for knotweed (just a few weeks/ months, due to ART testing 'no' for me).
I just discovered I can't take the Source Natural brand, but probably accept whole herb no additives.
Maybe you guys could do only an andro protocol and see what happens. But the results most people here got with Buhner herbs were attained due to combination of herbs, not single herb. If you read the book, you'll understand why combination is the best.
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I appreciate this info. I did Buhner's herbs last year but mostly focused on andrographis. I couldn't take the Source Natural Resveratrol cuz it's phytoestrogens gave me hot flashes.
I will try the knotweed via bulk herb from Plum Island.
I do the herbs while on antibiotics. I don't know how anyone can separate out what exactly is helping them if they are doing several herbs, handfulls of supplements and several antibiotics!
Buhner even says that he thinks we need antibiotics in addition to the herbs. I have to say, I am a concerned about the herbs possibly negatively affecting the efficay of antibiotics. Their interaction has never really been studied.
Any thoughts anyone?
Posts: 211 | From NC | Registered: Dec 2005
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Marz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3446
posted
Thanks everyone for your info. I'll try Planet Thrive as you said Jim.
I have skimmed Buhner's book from the library and there's so much info to digest. I guess I had the impression Andrographis was #1, but I'll add Knotweed as you suggested, Selma.
I planned to start knotweed too, but they didn't carry Source Naturals at the store so I need to order it
Also, it occurred to me that I started a new liquid herbal sleep tincture shortly after I started the andrographis and I'm going to pay attention to see if that might be causing the lumpy fingers. I hope so--I can live without that one.
It just gets so complicated when you're swallowing umpteen different things a day!
posted
Yes, and then there are people like me, who did great on herbs alone, added the abx and went 10 steps backward, and probably never fully recovered from the abx.
You MUST remember, that the abx not only kill the spirochetes, they also kill your GOOD bacteria, that you MUST have to keep your body in balance.
PLUS, MOST abx are 'designed" to be used ONLY for short term use. NOT months and months.
I have NOW found a way to take amoxicillin without the SEVERE pain in my stomach that I got before from any and ALL abx, and especially from Tetracycline and Doxycycline.
Take the Amoxicillin WITH FAT FREE MILK,BEFORE you have your meal. In other words on an empty stomach. MY theory is that the milk helps to neutralize the stomach acids temporarily AND by not having a bunch of food in your stomach, the abx can exit your stomach post haste.
Am I TOTALLY free of pain and nausea doing it this way? NO! But close! NONE of that lingering, SEVERE pain I get when on abx for more than a few days taking it with food.
IF you can't take cow's milk, try goats milk, or maybe soy or almond, or whatever you can get your hands on. Hopefully YOU are NOT one of the unfortunates that can't drink cow's milk. FRESH cow's milk has always been a soothing item for MY stomach. I drink close to two gallons a week.
ONLY skim milk though.
We sure don't need the FAT of any of the other. 1% is NOT much better in the "fat" department than WHOLE MILK which is probably about 3 to 3.5% fat.
posted
I would like to add to the above post of mine, that I did NOT take the Amoxicillin for Lyme. But rather for prostatitis.
However, I DO think it is affecting my Chronic Lyme D. My legs got a lot worse during this time etc.. BUT I am NOT going to take it long term, either. It will be 3 weeks since I started by the end of tomorrow. SO I will QUIT after that.
It will be interesting HOW I respond with my Lyme. HOPEFULLY I will feel better again in a week or two. The prostititis IS gone now, at least the pain is. SO the abx AND regular sex did their jobs.
NOW, NEED to stop before I have any yeast problems. I am NOT taking any probiotics at this time. Only Milk Thistle AND Red Root tincture and of course the Sarsaparilla.
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: I would like to add to the above post of mine, that I did NOT take the Amoxicillin for Lyme. But rather for prostatitis.
However, I DO think it is affecting my Chronic Lyme D. My legs got a lot worse during this time etc.. BUT I am NOT going to take it long term, either. It will be 3 weeks since I started by the end of tomorrow. SO I will QUIT after that.
It will be interesting HOW I respond with my Lyme. HOPEFULLY I will feel better again in a week or two. The prostititis IS gone now, at least the pain is. SO the abx AND regular sex did their jobs.
NOW, NEED to stop before I have any yeast problems and/or immune system shutdown. I am NOT taking any probiotics at this time. Only Milk Thistle AND Red Root tincture and of course the Sarsaparilla. Plus we have to remember: THIS is the flu season, and I did NOT get the flu shot THIS year.
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
Anyway, as far as the interactions between herbs and antibiotics, it has in fact been studied somewhat. Buhner mentions it in the book (I don't remember if it's footnoted to an actual study).
If I remember right, he mentions that some of the herbs have been found to help people who've had antibiotic failures with their Lyme, and I think he was talking about it in terms of combination therapy where the patients (who'd previously had antibiotic failures) were taking both antibiotics and herbs simultaneously.
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
"Buhner even says that he thinks we need antibiotics in addition to the herbs." mtnwoman wrote.
Many people keep saying he recommends abx, but it's not EXACTLY that.
"Yes, you may use antibiotics along with the protocol, the two can often work very well together as some of the herbs are drug potentiators. Because antibiotics do work well for about half the people with Lyme it does make sense to use them to see if a 30 day or so course of abx can clear the Lyme. " Buhner in planet thrive.
Yes, he recommends a use of 30 days OR SO to see if it can clear lyme.
"Again, abx are spectacularly effective for many people. This does not mean they work for everyone or even a large majority of people who use them. It is, in part, that failure of effectiveness that drives the need for alternatives that are well considered and that can help in the treatment of the disease". p. 7.
P.6. For many people, abx are effective, he affirms.
But then he adds:
"Unfortunately, an in-depth review of the literature reveals that abx are not nearly as effetive as they are purported to be.
Studies show that the effectiveness rates for abx run anywhere from 70-95% depending on the study. Rarely included in these statistics, however, is the fact that there is often as much as 35% relapse rate.
Additionally, live spirochettes are regularly found in peple who have been on abx therapy for years or who have undergone repeated, very potent, abx regiments." (p.6)
He goes on saying that there are studies showing that up to 40% of people treated with abx will not get erradication of spirochettes. The longer one is sick, the hardest it will be.
I know you guys may have read the book with a lyme brain...
But I'm just clarifying that point to the ones that are new to lyme and Buhner. I guess while he's confident abx can help many people (short or middle term use), he's much less confident about cronic patients and long term use.
there was a recent discussion about this same point in Buhner's forum.
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by MariaA:
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: SO the abx AND regular sex did their jobs.
Jim
JimBob,
I hope to be like you when I"m 80! [/QB]
ME too!!!! Only, I am only 65 NOW and have a wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyys to go.
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB:
quote:Originally posted by MariaA:
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: SO the abx AND regular sex did their jobs.
Jim
JimBob,
I hope to be like you when I"m 80!
ME too!!!! Only, I am only 65 NOW and have a wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyys to go.
Jim [/QB]
oops, i'm sorry. I must be confusing you with GiGi's stories about successfully treating her very old husband who had Lyme and somehow '80' stuck in my head.
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