posted
On Polish Lyme Forum http://forum.gazeta.pl/forum/71,1.html?f=26140 we have a fellow who has become symptoms free after long-term antibiotics. Just to be sure that he was cured he has sent his blood for Borrelia PCR testing. The PCR surprisingly turned out to be positive. At the time of his testing he was taking grapefruit seed extract. (He has being continuing his treatment since - if anybody is interested)
I made an association between this event and presentation of Dr. Brorson from Norway who claimed on the last ILADS congress that grapefruit seed extract was the most powerful agent for bursting Borrelia cysts. Possibly this agent opened up some residual dormant borrelia cysts and released their contents into the blood stream.
I have suggested to other Polish Lyme Forum participants the use grapefruit seed extract for three days before giving blood for Borrelia PCR testing.
Since then 3 forum participants have tried this approach and ALL OF THEM have been able to obtain confirmation of Lyme disease through PCR diagnostics. Some of them used regular PCR, some used real-time PCR.
I hope this was not a random luck and perhaps we have discovered a better way of confirming chronic Lyme disease. I mean better than typically used Western blots that rely on presence of antibodies in the blood. PCR from blood (without grapefruit seed extract) is positive in only 10% of Lyme patients. With this small chance of getting positive result with PCR from blood the calculated probability of getting 3 different persons PCR positive is only 0.1%. Chances that grapefruit seed extract increases test sensitivity are therefore very high.
I have decided to ask Lymenet participants to try this new approach the next time they want to be tested.
Please note that grapefruit seed extract might not go well with some antibiotics such as tetracyclines or macrolides. Also there have been some warnings against taking large amount of grapefruit seed extract due to contamination with benzethonium chloride in some brands.
I suggested doubling or tripling the dose suggested by a manufacturer of grapefruit seed extract for three days before sending blood for PCR testing.
I hope that these who decide to follow this approach report their findings on this board.
[ 08. February 2007, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: artur737 ]
Posts: 54 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Note that at this time I endorse grapefruit seed extract only for PCR diagnostics enhancement - not for treatment.
Posts: 54 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
What ever came of this research? Did anyone get PCR testing and make the attempt?
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
Does the PCR testing need to be through IGenex, or can it be done through LabCorp? I just spent a ton of $$$$$ doing IGeneX testing for Lyme and co-infections............and I'm waiting on my (hopeful) partial reimbursement!
I haven't been on any abx for way over a year, and my test results seemed "diluted" in a way. I'm told that after a good amount of time, those antibodies are harder and harder to pick up.
Even though I've been testing positive for a couple of new bands that haven't shown up before over the past few months through LabCorp, and now IGeneX........which I find interesting......makes you go "hmmmmm." (I was dx'd back in Aug. '07 and I've only tested through IGeneX 2x, but LabCorp many times.)
However, I'm sick of all the testing. It's like fishing in a big pond. Who knows what's going to be captured in that proverbial net? I'd like to have at least 3 of the same tests done at the same time to see if they come out with the same results!
I'm starting to think this testing roller coaster is a crap-shoot. I don't know. It's like you're damned if you DO and damned if you DON'T. I've had ALLLLLLL kinds of different methods for different dx's recently.........arrgggggggg!!!!
It's just so hard to believe the testing procedures are as unpredictable as this whole disease is. We've got pretty stable testing on HIV,etc., but not Lyme & Co. Very frustrating, but I understand (I think!) how hard it is to actually "capture" these miserable things.
Anyway, since I just did IGeneX ----- ya think it's worth a try with LabCorp a couple of times in the near future ------ with the grapefruit seed extract?
Just curious. Thanks!
Take care,
terri3boys
Posts: 268 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
PCR is a different test, it tests the actual borrelia bacterium.
The western blot and the ELISA tests only test for antibodies, and lyme and co. actually lower antibodies, so that the sickest patients have the most negative test results.
PCR is not dependent on antibodies at all. Real-time PCR is the better method.
Posts: 366 | From Europe | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Thanks for extra confirmation that "lyme & co. actually lower antibodies......."
I've been told exactly that same thing by doctors and others that this theory of the bizarre disappearance/reappearance of bands you've had shown up positive before showing up negative, and then NEW bands showing up positive, and then OLD bands showing up again positive ------ just pure confusion for me and certain doctors saying "Well, it looks like you're ALLLLL better!"
As far as the Real-time PCR, I've had that done as well. Don't remember what the result or testing method was right now........I've got to get off this computer. My hands hurt so bad, they're so stiff.
I just had to "re-comment!"
Adios for now, terri3boys
Posts: 268 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
what lab does real-time PPCR testing?? and anyway can be coved by insurance??
thanks
-------------------- i am not a Dr. any info is only for education, suggestion or to think/research. please do not mis-intuprest as diagnostic or prescriptive, only trying to help. **
dx in 08:lyme, rmsf, bart, babs, and m.pneumonia. Posts: 422 | From TX | Registered: Oct 2008
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