stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
6 weeks of vfend along with abx totally cleared my cfs . this has been a timeclock for 13 years and now non-existant.
in fact vfend cleared 80% of my symptoms.
i took it without knowledge of my llmd. i he was rejoicing at my last visit on wednesday. off abx 3 weeks, no relapse, some neuralgia but tolerable, some knee pain. everything else gone for now.
my impression is that we are overtreting with abx , please don't shoot me. and the yeast infection takes over to the point that abx are totally ineffective and the systemic yeast is causing most symptoms.
i posted this several weeks ago but betty was the only one that seems to agree with me.
try it you may like the results.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I don't understand. Vfend requires a prescription. How were you able to get it w/o your MD's knowledge?
Posts: 449 | From Pasadena, CA, usa | Registered: Aug 2005
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dontlikeliver
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posted
Did you have any unpleasant side effects from the Vfend?
Glad you think it's cured you, I hope it really has, for good.
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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my impression is that we are overtreting with abx , please don't shoot me. and the yeast infection takes over to the point that abx are totally ineffective and the systemic yeast is causing most symptoms.
docdave
You may be darn right. Sometimes I suspected this too but my two trials with Diflucan showed no reaction.
Maybe Diflucan was just the wrong antifungal? Is Vfend effective against other sorts of yeast than Diflucan? Why did you choose Vfend?
I'm glad for you that you feel so much better!
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I do know that many people at the www.rheumatic.org site that are treating with antibiotics often times reach a plateau where they don't get any better. When they add in an antifungal such as diflucan many get better.
I do know that when my husband took Diflucan last spring he made great progress. He did have a candida problem but I think the Diflucan does something more.
Glad you found something that works and will do a little research now on Vfend.
Posts: 984 | From San Diego | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
I've been on abxs for over 2 years with some progress, but a lot of set backs too. I've been on Diflucan for about 1 month for yeast and have noticed I am feeling pretty darn good myself. I wondered if it was due to the Diflucan. What dose of vfend are you taking and for how long?
Posts: 69 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I wonder if vfend, like flucanazole, has the anti-lyme properties that have been floating around here, aside from just being an antifungal. Maybe this is a better drug. I'm glad someone is feeling better though! Please tell us more. Is there a reason you kept this hidden from your LLMD?
Posts: 690 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
that we are overtreting with abx , please don't shoot me. and the yeast infection takes over to the point that abx are totally ineffective and the systemic yeast is causing most symptoms.
I agree Stymie! Whatever antifungals you use, even if it's only diet changes--they do seem to help.
Everyone has yeast in their system (no matter if you have symptoms or not) prior to lyme. Then when you have your immune system compromised with lyme....the yeast goes out of control.
Abx helps the yeast even more and it becomes a major co-infection. So, it definitely is something we should treat.
posted
I thought you said that the vfend helped your cfs, which I take to mean "chronic fatigue syndrome". Am I right or are you taking about yeast. It seems that all of the replies were about yeast.
1. If you are talking about Chronic Fatigue, I am excited to here this and want to look it up.
2. I agree with you about the overuse of abx. I will not go back on abx unless someone proves to me that it will improve my health.
3. Wouldn't you think that people would understand that the reason people feel better after taking Diflucan is because Yeast infections can bring on the same symptoms of Lyme. So, they are getting rid of a fungus which makes them tired and sick, and the Diflucan makes them feel better.
Posts: 75 | From NC | Registered: Dec 2004
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
vfend is a stronger form of diflucan and kills molds, fungi and yeast.
yes it is prescription, yes i am a doctor and can write my owm rx but don't.
i turned in my prescription priledges when i turned in my dental license.
i most states ,if you are disabled ,as i am , they will not let you keep your medical or dental license active. you can reactivate if you are ever able to practice, but i have not practiced since 2000 and would have to totally retain, even if i got fully recovered.
my disability to practice dentistry is from a dead unlar nerve in my working hand, 2 surgeries, and will never be better.
so where i'd get vfend. last year i had a bad yeast infection on my tongue. doc tried diflucan, didn't help.
then tried vfend and it cured it. i called the office to renew it, no problem.
most of my prescriptions are for 100 times. my llmd, who in fact is a very very knowledgable id doc, and also exotic disease doc , took a residency in philly and is more knowledgable than almost any doc i have gone to period.
i know about all these exotic diseases and sees lots of malaria,parasites and ameoba infections.
i have trained him well in lyme and he will listen to any treatment i decide on. we work as a team on my treatment and about 20 others that he see's from my referals.
he pretty much gives me open ended rx and i can change to what i feel is necessary at any time. i see him once a month for bloodwork or any complications.
YES ,THE VFEND ALMOST COMPLETELY GOT RID OF MY CHRONIC FATIGUE AND EVEN HE WAS AMAZED BUT NOT SURPRIZED.
WE HAVE GONE COLD TURKEY ON ALL MEDS NOW AND WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
I KNOW I WILL RELAPSE, AND MY RELAPSE COME SHORTER AND SHORTER EVERY TIME, BUT THIS IS THE BEST I HAVE FELT IN 1.5 YEARS AND CF FOR 13 YEARS.
WILL KEEP YOU INFORMED OF STATUS. i do not follow a good non yeast diet,but have gone back on the south beach diet, which is a good diet to prevent yeast overgrowth.
docdave docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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I don't think that you should go off cold turkey....Like you said, they just lead to another relapse. Why not do a modified Schardt Protocol, except use your Vfend instead of Diflucan. You could do 25 to 30 days of Vfend (this is what Schardt originally did), then take a few days off and hit it with Bicillin + Biaxin, or Amoxy + something else for 6 weeks. I would do a couple of these cycles to give yourself a better shot of kicking this crap. I would hate to see any more of your suicide posts due to a relapse.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Hi Docdave
That's really great news & I am so happy you are feeling better
Could I please ask how long where you on the vfend till you felt a big difference in fatigue?
And a real touchie question & you don't have to answer how many mg did you take per day?- Was it the usual reccomened doasage for Vfend?
I hope you can continue to hold your ground.
Take good care Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by NCLymie: Wouldn't you think that people would understand that the reason people feel better after taking Diflucan is because Yeast infections can bring on the same symptoms of Lyme. So, they are getting rid of a fungus which makes them tired and sick, and the Diflucan makes them feel better.
You would THINK so! I've been preaching about diet and killing yeast for years. Some listen, some don't. Oh well.
"Successful control and elminiation of a Candida Albicans overgrowth requires a multifaceted program as described below. Failure to follow ALL the steps simultaneously will result in slow progress and will lengthen healing time significantly. The program should be tailored to the individual and must balance the need to eliminate the Candida and deprive it of its food source while insuring proper nutrition for the individual."
Five Steps to Candida Elimination:
1. You must starve it into submission by eliminating its food source.
2. You must kill it with anti-fungal herbs and supplements. [e.g....garlic, onion, caprylic acid, Pau D'Arco capsules or tea, clove, grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, oil of oregano, tea tree oil, Echinacea, Goldenseal, black walnut, MSM, barberry root, uva ursi, neem leaf, biotin]
3. You must reestablish the proper balance and quantity of probiotic bacteria in the digestive tract. [...multi-strain lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidus capsules with FOS should be taken between meals to maximize repopulation of the digestive tract by beneficial bacteria.]
4. You must reestablish proper levels of all B vitamins (yeast free) and utilize other immune enhancing supplements to boost immune system function. [e.g ... B complex vitamins (yeast free), biotin, beta 1-3 glucan, colostrum, maitake mushroom, vitamins A, C, E, zinc and selenium]
5. You must cleanse and heal the digestive tract to promote proper elimination of toxins and Candida and assimilation of nutrients. [e.g...chlorophyll, MSM, omega 3 fatty acids found in flax seed and salmon oils, GLA found in borage, evening primrose and black currant oils. Pantothenic acid, digestive enzymes between meals]
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by micul:
I would hate to see any more of your suicide posts due to a relapse.
dave, i'm glad you are feeling so much better also! i also agree w/micul about going cold turkey last year and your turning suicidal.
we all felt helpless when we wanted to help you! so micul and i are speaking up now dave; we treasure your online friendship, support, dental knowledge you are able to help so many lymies with, and your GREEN SANTA elf job!
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luvs2ride
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posted
Hi Stymie
my impression is that we are overtreting with abx , please don't shoot me.
I'm one more who agrees with you wholeheartedly.
I also agree with NCLymie that many times the symptoms we attribute to lyme are actually yeast related in which case the abx are useless and even contribute to the pain.
So along with lyme, yeast needs to be addressed as well. Especially while on abx.
My husband has serious yeast and CFS. I will pass along to him the Vfend. Both of our doctors are treating us holistically. I'm not sure we can convince them to prescribe Vfend. Especially without outward visable yeast symptoms.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Hey Happy for you but I want to let you know I have gone as far as 7 months with no symptoms then they creep back. Good that you eliminated the yeasts molds though that should help.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
I'm glad its helping people, but could docdave or another comment on these side effects? Did you have elevated liver function studies? Any visual issues?
Posts: 690 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Foggy
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posted
Doc, is it possible you also had a mold problem, as well, & the Vfend cleared that up?
Were you ever RAST tested for molds?
Posts: 2451 | From Lyme Central | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I have commented on this before...Check out Ora Mune Supra, oramune.com. It is(at least for me) an extremely effective , non-prescription, unique way of controling candida introducing candida antibodies into the system.
I've been on it now (recommended by my LLMD) for over 8 months with no yeast issues. I've had no side effects from this and even use 1/2 the recommended daily dose.
I can't say enough about this product. I first used the regular Ora Mune, immune support until my LLMD said he'd had great success with the Supra. So I got off the Nystatin ( have also been on Diflucan)and just use this.
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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dontlikeliver
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posted
Doc Dave,
Any side effects from the Vfend and did your liver enzymes go up at all? And, are either of those more likely with Vfend than Diflucan do you think?
DLL
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I would tell your LLMD because they will know for future to throw this medicine into treatment. It's important.
I suggested it to my doctor because I was in a toxic mold building and got severly sick(not just as sick as everyone else there).
That's when I found out I had Lyme, and I've been told that anti-fungals help when exposed to mold, but my LLMD 'plays me off' when I suggest it. When I take abx, I get a strong, thick coating on my tongue. When I stop, it goes away and I do take pro-biotics.
-------------------- Never walk through a cornfield backwards.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
i have been doing lyme research for 5 years now and feel like i know as much or more than anybody in the country about lyme and some coinfections not all.
i believe from my research we will never get rid of the lyme completely ,nad i am willing to keep it in my system at bay.
stress is the crutial factor in reactivating the cyst and l forms of the bacteria. if we can keep this at bay, even with meds ,then our lives can be productive with the bugs still in our systems.
my major symptoms did not occur until my rocephin was started, and this caused major toxin overdose.
maybe a more gentle killingof the bugs initially is more advantageous than a mass kill.
the toxins are what bring on the autoimune system response and lower the t cells ability to kill.
as in aids, with the right therapy ,i believe that our best option for chronics like myself is to get stable then,play by ear the response the body has.
i still have all my meds ready to go if needed. but i need to test my theory, and thats why i went cold turkey on the meds. i still take the psych meds to control stress.
yes i am well aware of every side effect of every drug that i take. i have blood work insisted be done every 4 weeks.
all liver, thyroid, cortisol, and adrenal functions are normal. blood cultures done every 6 months have also been negative.
believe it or not my new llmd has never done a blood test for lyme or coinfections, which of course were negative.
my last 10 pcr's by my previous llmd were all negative. my elisa was 2.5 and has never gone lower. my original elisa was 5.8 and wb all positve bands except 1 out of 15 i think it was.
men, an added bonus, your psa for prostate cancer will go up with lyme and may never go back down to normal.
mine has been 4, 6, and 12 and 3 bx by 3 different uroligists. the last did 35 bx of the prostate and every bx was negative.
however, if your psa is high you shouls have at least 2 bx to make certain..
any more info needed.
docdave Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Interesting this thread......thanks Doc Dave......
I agree with you about stress....I know first hand: "stress" made my daughter relapse after more than 4 years abx and sx free.....go figure!
Posts: 983 | From The sky | Registered: Feb 2005
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I'm new to lyme having just been dx and started doxy. Besides vfend, I would be very interested in learning what treatments have been most efficacious for lyme and its coinfections.
Your knowledge and background is most helpful to everyone who is trying to treat this disease.
Thanks
Posts: 188 | From ID | Registered: Jan 2007
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
Doomer: treatment guideline are kind of set in mush. each guideline will work differently on each person.
the main objective is how long went undiagnosed. it went more than a year i would skip the intro doxy and go right to the hard stuff iv rocephin.
if just bit then doxy for 2 months 400mg should kill most. also coinfections are important. if caught early enough ,most people get recovery with large dose doxy. would go 2 months because that is 2 cycles of the bb bacteria. like fleas they have a cycle and produce more every 28 days.
would highly recommend a llmd trained in lyme treatment.
bx stands for biopsy. rx is prescription. sx is surgery dx is diagnosis tx is treatment
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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Lymelighter
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Member # 5310
posted
Doc, cut the small talk. We all know your nude sunbathing at Mar-A-lago was the real panacea.
[ 13. February 2007, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Lymelighter ]
Posts: 1010 | From Mars | Registered: Feb 2004
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Dave I do not agree with that statement. Sorry
i believe from my research we will never get rid of the lyme completely ,nad i am willing to keep it in my system at bay.
I believe the key to getting rid of this is time and treatment for the cyst form.
The problem with treating the cyst form is getting it opened up and penetrating it.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
this is my oppinion after hours upon hours of research. i'd rather have dormant cells in my muscles than over tox my system trying to kill all these cycts.
i just don't belive it can be done at present.
i have been search for a way of marking the bb so that the immune system recognises it even imbedded in cells.
until these rna fragments are marked so that either the immune system or abx can locate them in the body, then i think we are fighting a futile battle against a camoflaged enemy.
i think the answer may be gene therapy. i have sent my research to a genetist at Hopkins and they are now using my technique to inject gene therapy.
i wanted to use an inert virus or bacteria and add the good gene to the end of the rna segment of the virus. as it enters the cell , it will attach to the cells dna and produce a marker that will make the bb glow to the t cells amd macrophages.
they can't kill what they don't see. it is much better for the body to clear the infection than busting cells and releasing toxins in to our blood stream and csf.
just my theory, not a genetisist, but did major in chem and biochem in college.
gene therapy was not even a theory when i went to school.
just my theory and many may not agree. i do not want anybody to change their therapy because of my theories.
it may take many years before my theories become fruition. so don't stop what your doing now.
man ,if only i had a nice bio lab , i could knock this out in less time than the buttheads at hopkins.
docdave Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
One more time, interesting what you just wrote Docdave......
Posts: 983 | From The sky | Registered: Feb 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Every cell in everybodies body is replaced in 14 months.
The cell division time of Bb is very long compared to other bacteria. A typical cell wall reproduction time for Streptococcus or Staphylococcus is less than 20 minutes, while the total reproduction time of Bb is from 12-24 hours. Most antibiotics inhibit the formation of cell walls and are effective only when the bacteria are dividing with the formation of new cell wall. With the slow replication time of Bb, an antibiotic would have to be present 24 hours a day for one year and six months to be present during the cell wall reproduction period.
1 year=12m 2 months I just finished 16m and now take B12 injections
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
dontlikeliver
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4749
posted
That is an interesting thought, Tree....makes things VERY confusing too. Why can we still be sick then after over 14 months of antibiotics? Just wondering to myself.
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:would go 2 months because that is 2 cycles of the bb bacteria.
Hi Doc, my llmd dr. p explained that the Bb cycles in 24-48 hours. the 28 day "flare" is actually due to the "refreshing" of our immune system cells.
There is no data on how often the different forms of Bb regenerate...some speculate that even in the cyst form, ketes inside can replicate. there really isn't enough data on this.
If we know for sure, we would all only be treating when there was "active" division going on.
BTW, Dr. P is a stong believer in azoles for Bb.
Glad you are so much happier now.
Kim
-------------------- We are spiritual beings on a human journey...
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by dontlikeliver: That is an interesting thought, Tree....makes things VERY confusing too. Why can we still be sick then after over 14 months of antibiotics? Just wondering to myself.
You have to seperate cyst form from intracellular forms.
Cysts need opened and they can be anywhere.
Intracellular forms hide by ie our dna or inside the cell's ,,even the spirochete can enter cells such as fibroblasts, synovial cells, endothelial cells and macrophages. Thus hiding from immune system. What we need is Macrophages are unable to divide, they differentiated from monocytes, mobile phagocytic cells derived from the bone marrow. When a monocyte enters damaged tissue through the endothelium of a blood vessel (a process known as the leukocyte adhesion cascade), it undergoes a series of changes to become a macrophage. Macrophages are attracted to a damaged site by chemical substances through chemotaxis, triggered by a range of stimuli including damaged cells, pathogens, histamine released by mast cells and basophils, and cytokines released by macrophages already at the site.
Unlike short-lived neutrophils -- the phagocytes arriving earlier to sites of infection, living just a few days -- the life span of a macrophage ranges from months to years.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Tree-Thanks very interesting...How do we get more macrophages? Does building up our immune system help?
Blessings Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Every cell in everybodies body is replaced in 1yr6months
The cell division time of Bb is very long compared to other bacteria. A typical cell wall reproduction time for Streptococcus or Staphylococcus is less than 20 minutes, while the total reproduction time of Bb is from 12-24 hours. Most antibiotics inhibit the formation of cell walls and are effective only when the bacteria are dividing with the formation of new cell wall. With the slow replication time of Bb, an antibiotic would have to be present 24 hours a day for one year and six months to be present during the cell wall reproduction period.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7142
posted
Hey Dave, there are a lot more of us out there that agree with you then just Betty. I have gotten remission that has lasted for about 5 years now and I did NOT do it with massive ABX.
I used some ABX but only in micro doses. I've been talking about the possible overuse of ABX for some time, you must have missed it when you are down. There are quite a few of us out here that agree with you, and I think that the number is growing steadily. You aren't a lone soldier.
This kind of conversation is meeting with less and less resistence in my experience.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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I'm getting ready to take either VFend or Sporanox for mold so was cruising Lymenet for the first time in a very long while. I thought I'd add some info given to me by my mold doc.
My new doc said that my former mold doc (deceased) would have said that all my sx could have been caused by mold. I think that this is particularly important information for people who cannot get "all the way well" and are helped (or might be helped) by anti-fungals such as VFend or Sporanox.
Some background info on me in case it might shed some light. 1999-2002 lived in very moldy house and hiked in open space every work day 2000-2001 persistent yeast infections 2001 dx MS 2003 gave birth to a boy 2003-2005 health crashes (gi problems, fatigue) 2004 CDC positive for Lyme 2005 began Lyme tx (abx) plenty of herxes and meds changes along the way 2006 began mold allergy tx 12/06 began IV for Lyme 2/08 off IV for Lyme and back to orals - getting better 3/08 on Cowden - getting even better 4/08 off abx - better still presently still on Cowden and off abx sx recur only when I eat food with high mold content (sores in scalp, rash on finger, achey joints, fatigue)
My former mold doc dx me as being colonized by mold. It was my high levels of antibodies to mold on a blood test and the rash on my finger that no one else could treat or diagnose. I also got sores in my scalp that my former mold doc said were mold colonies - yuck! This recurs when I eat food that has high mold content. (See list in PS.)
I'd never gotten to treating the mold colonies as I was on a Lyme tx that was incompatible with the mold drugs. By the time I got off that drug we forgot to address it and by that time my dear former doc was getting sick himself. :-(
I'm finally getting to treating the mold living in me and I'd be very surprised if it didn't make me feel awful for awhile and then much, much better.
I hope that long, long story is helpful to someone or at least food for thought. D
PS Here's my former doc's list of moldy foods. It's a tough diet but it really helps with mold and candida sx.
Dried fruit Aged Cheese (cottage cheese, mozzarella, provolone, ricotta, fresh goat, farmer's cheese okay) Mushrooms Leftovers more than 24 hours old Food frozen more than 1 to 2 weeks (it's the defrost cycle that thaws the food slightly) Over-ripe fruits and veg Bread (especially sourdough ``yeast-free'' breads) Malt Tomato Products (juice, sauce, paste, ketchup) Beer Wine & Wine Vinegar (white wine is least moldy) Most Liquors (vodka tequila, clear rums are least moldy) Multi-B Vitamins (Freeda brand are okay) Processed Meats (hot dogs, salami, sausage, bologna etc.) Hamburger (okay if eaten the day it's ground if not from aged meat) Soy Sauce Chocolate Black Tea Malt Lactaid Citric Acid Fruit juice Digestive enzymes (pancreatic are ok) Cholesterol-lowering enzymes He also had organic foods on the list - that's the one I ignored - even though it makes sense, part of the life in organic soil is mold. Tempeh Koji Miso
Posts: 261 | From San Mateo, CA | Registered: May 2005
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
Denise thanks for sharing your history.
Your history is somewhat similar to my own.
Moved into moldy home in 1999- still live here bit by tick in 2000 persistant yeast infections 2006
I was put on Vfend and thought i was going to die on it. It made me really sick so i think it was hitting something. Most of the antifungals made me feel sicker in the begging. Difflucan helped me the most though.
It sounds like you are pretty sick from the mold.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by dontlikeliver: That is an interesting thought, Tree....makes things VERY confusing too. Why can we still be sick then after over 14 months of antibiotics? Just wondering to myself.
The cysts? Maybe I continued to treat after the 14months and did minocin all winter,18 months feel good.
But I donot discount What Dave is saying about Vfend yeast and molds are there and because we went on and on with abx's trying to get lyme the others are unchecked so a coarse of vfend probaly a good Idea.
I also am going to start taking amino acids and enzmes for a while and continue on with other support probiotics.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
I have heard of others being in miraculous recovery r/t Vfend...
my cousin (10 years chronic lyme) started taking Vfend last year and she just came back from a trip around the world
there is research being done on antifungals being used to treat tick born illness... I think it goes beyond just all symptoms being caused by yeast though
vs. something like diflucan and vfend "hitting" viral, fungal, bacterial, and parasitic, microbial, and g-d know what else we have, infections in some way as well - I know there is research going on supporting this idea...
Personally, I hated being on antibiotics so I went off of them after a couple years positive they were the cause of my lingering symptoms
I had such a horrible relapse I am now on bicillin shots and starting to get my life back again...
I guess it's all trial and error and we are all different - different histories, pysiological makeups etc.
Personally, am happy for anyone who is able to function well with this disease whether they are pumped full of antibiotics or stand on their head and chant!
Whatever works! More power to you!!!
-------------------- "We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us" - e.m. forster Posts: 921 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2004
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cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
the article tree posted, above, is intriguing!
If indeed Viagra can kill spirochetes, does anybody have any experience with this? Can women take viagra?
Has anyone taken licoric root as the article mentions?
And if the article's authors are right, we should avoid chondroitin and glucosamine. yikes!
sorry to get off topic; it would be great to present that article in a new post, tree. You have such great info for us, thank you!
DocDave, when you said the Vfend helped your CFS, were you referring to just the fatigue aspect of CFS? I ask because i had a dx of CFS for sixteen years, and the symptoms are exactly the same as Lyme.
Just trying to understand, not trying to nitpick at all. thanks for a great thread, doc!
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Antibiotics DO NOT treat the problem, they only mitigate a side effect of the problem, that is, fungal and pathogenic microbe overgrowth, which is a symptom of an impaired immune sytem.
If the body has what it needs, and is free of what it does not, self regulation will be the result. It has its own antibiotic, and usually has little use for exogenous ones.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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I was also very sick from Lyme and coinfections. It is through extensive Lyme treatment that I've recovered my life.
Now that my Lyme tx is wrapping up, I can discern what was mold-related. In addition, it's now that I'm feeling better that I started cheating on the mold diet. I was really strict on that diet until a couple months ago.
I can't emphasize the utility of that diet enough. The doc who came up with it was growing this stuff out in his lab. During over three years of multi-abx treatment I never had a problem with yeast - never. In the last couple of months I started have candida problems (bloating whenever I ate carbs, receding fingernail beds etc.) when I ate prohibited foods. I took diflucan for about 6 weeks and no more candida problems. I tested negative on the arabinatol test.
One example of the an overlooked moldy food is so-called yeast-free bread. This bread is essentially made with wild-yeast from the air. It's really yeast stuff in actuality. I've seen it listed as a good food for people fighting yeast on many candida diets.
I'll get down off my soap box. I guess I'm like everyone, when I find some info that really rings true in my experience and in my body I want to share it with the hope that it will help someone else.
Be well, Denise
Posts: 261 | From San Mateo, CA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Uh, on that article, "Biochemistry of Lyme Disease". I think they are confused.
"Nitrous oxide (chemical formula NO) is a gas, at one time commonly used as an anesthetic (laughing gas). In more recent times, the biochemical activity of NO has been related to the relaxation of the small muscle fibers in the walls of blood vessels. They serve to either relax or constrict the flow of blood passing through those vessels"
I think they are confusing NITRIC oxide with NITROUS oxide. Those are two totally different chemicals, but I think they are both gasses. PDE-5 inhibitors like viagra cause vasodilation by increasing nitric oxide. I don't even know if "nitrous oxide" is in the body. Just kind of makes me question their understanding of the subject now.
-------------------- "You know, the worst, meanest, nastiest, ticks in the world are politicks," - Steve Nostrum Posts: 242 | From South NJ | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
I am with dontlikeliver . The entire "lyme " equasion is probably far more complicated than lyme simply being a tough bacteria. I have been on ABX two years, and have no PAIN anymore, but the flu feeling and fatigue are still awful.
I know folks who have taken enough ABX to sink a ship and they are still sick after three years .
Oh how I wish this mystery could be solved , but I suspect the answer is under our noses and we are operating on false hypothesis .
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