Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
posted
Sorry to be a pest, but I have a question about Babs. Husband has bad brain fog, so I've heard some suggestions about babs. I plan to ask the LLMD doc about it on Friday.
I've been reading up on babs, and it sounds like it usually runs with fevers? My husband doesn't have fevers, he usually runs with a low 97.3 body temp.
Would he still have a low body temp, and not have the fever problem, if he had the babs infection?
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Yes, definitely you can have Babs and still have low temp which is likely from a thyroid issue caused by the Borrelia/Lyme itself. I have seen this many times.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
posted
Thanks for letting me know. That just seems so strange to me.
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Lack of the classic "sweats" and fever was what caused me to put off testing -- I couldn't see any way I could have it.
HAH!
WRONG!
(PS This lack of testing was NOT my LLMD's advice, by the way - just me being financially very challenged at the beginning of treatment).
(PSS Not that I'm not STILL financially challenged...!)
posted
I never ran high fevers...instead my temperature dropped into the 96s at times. I had Babesia, Ehrlichia and Lyme.
For me Babesia caused seizure like migraines. Just really awful symptoms but then I know people who have antibodies that have more chronic dehabilitation that was not accute but extremely damaging over twenty years...
so everyone is different but absolutely get tested.
I recommend the IgeneX Labs FISH test for babesia because it tests for multiple strains instead of only one or two.
-------------------- �Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right.� - Ezre Taft Benson Posts: 655 | From NC, Exit 88 on the Deer SuperHighway | Registered: Dec 2004
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
I tested negative for babs, but my LLMD is certain I have it because I have so many of the symptoms, especially the sweats.
I did not have fevers, rather a low body temperature -- about 97. I've been on Mepron, Artemisia, Biaxin, and Doxy for a month now and my temps have gone up a whole degree! That has to be good for me and bad for the Lyme!!
I still have a long way to go though ... days like today I can hardly get out of bed.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Beverly
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 1271
posted
Hi Boomerang,
I didn't have some of the *classic* symptoms of Babesia, but still had it. I had some night sweats but never drenching. I did run fevers on and off, but had low body temp too. I also have low thyroid, but when I did run the fevers it would go up to 101.
My son also has Babesia, he had so many of the same symptoms as me, but tested negative. However when he started Babesia meds, he would sweat in his sleep.
You may have already read this...but this is wonderful information by Tincup.
Dual Infection Worsens Lyme Disease Symptoms
People with concurrent Lyme disease and babesiosis suffer a greater number of symptoms and a longer duration of illness than patients with either infection alone, concludes a June report in the Journal of the American Medical Association co-authored by several NIAID grantees.
Coinfection with both tick-borne pathogens occurs in about 10 percent of patients in certain areas of southern New England. In these and other areas where both infections exist, the authors write, "the possibility of concomitant babesial infection should be considered when moderate to severe Lyme disease has been diagnosed."
1. The prospective, longitudinal study included all cases of Lyme disease and babesiosis identified during May through September from 1990-1994 in an island community in Rhode Island and during 1992-94 in two Connecticut medical clinics.
Of 240 patients diagnosed with Lyme disease, 26 (11 percent) were coinfected with babesiosis. Coinfected patients more frequently experienced fatigue, headache, sweats, chills, anorexia, emotional instability, nausea, conjunctivitis, and an enlarged spleen than those with Lyme disease alone.
Exactly half of the coinfected patients had at least one symptom, primarily fatigue, that lasted for 3 months or longer compared with just 4 percent of the 184 patients afflicted with Lyme disease only. The ten patients diagnosed with only babesiosis also had fewer symptoms and a shorter course of illness than did patients coinfected with Lyme disease.
Babesial parasites invade red blood cells and cause a malaria-like illness characterized by fever, chills, drenching sweats, muscle pains, headaches, and malaise. In contrast, the Lyme disease spirochete homes to various tissues and causes a flu-like illness, rash, arthritis, and less often, inflammation of the heart and nerve disorders.
The life cycles of both pathogens depend on the same reservoir host, the white-footed mouse, and the same transmission vector, deer ticks. Thus, the possibility of coinfection is of potential importance, the report cautions, to the many people who live or vacation in sites in the northeastern and Great Lakes regions of the United States where these infections are emerging. "Physicians caring for patients with moderate to severe Lyme disease," they write, "should consider obtaining diagnostic tests for babesiosis and possibly other tick-borne pathogens in regions where these diseases are zoonotic...."
NIAID grantees David Persing, M.D., Ph.D., of the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., and Sam R. Telford III, Sc.D., and Andrew Spielman, Sc.D., both of Harvard University in Boston, contributed to this study.
A second study led by Drs. Telford and Persing raises the possibility of coinfection with still a third pathogen. This study found that the deer tick also is the primary American vector of human granulocytic ehrlichiosis (HGE), an infection first identified in people just two years ago. In addition, the white-footed mouse is the main reservoir of HGE infection. ****************************************** These are some of my notes from things I studied...
Babesiosis symptoms include: Fatigue * Arthralgias* Myalgia* Drenching sweats* Headaches* Emotional lability* Depression* Dark urine* Splenomegaly* Dizziness* Nausea and vomiting* Cough* Dyspnea* Fever* Chills* Hepatosplenomegaly* Jaundice* Malaise* Shortness of breath* Bleeding tendencies, bruising* Thrombocytopenia* Hemoglobinuria* Hyperesthesia* Pulmonary edema* Encephalopathy* Low to normal range leukocyte counts* Possible elevated levels of dehydrogenase, bilirubin, transaminase* Anorexia***
Approximately 25% of Babesia patients are known to be co-infected with Lyme disease. "As with malaria, these symptoms can continue over a protracted period or abate, then recur."
A chronic infection would normally show a low titer (IgG). An acute or current infection may show a high reading on the IgM test results. Quinine Sulfate is contraindicated in persons with optic neuritis, which is one of the problems many Lyme patients have developed. This medication lists precautions for those with Vitamin K deficiencies and clotting disorders which are often found in patients with Lyme disease. "Seven days of treatment with Quinine" has been proven to "be ineffective in cases that are chronic".
Mepron/Biaxin combo or Mepron/Zithromax are the preferred methods of treatment. It may take a year or more of these combinations. It is recommended that patients who take Mepron for Babesiosis should eat fatty foods to aid in the absorption process. Ginger is found to be helpful to ease nausea in some patients.
There are a number of references warning of false negatives for the Babesia tests, but no references for false positives tests. (Smears, antibodies, PCR, and FISH)
Toxic overloads (HERXHEIMER REACTION) are seen in many cases after medication for Babesiosis is given, generally appearing first on the third to fifth day, and then about every three to five weeks, thereafter.
"Although high titers (even at 1:4096) have been detected in patients in the acute phase, a cut off point of 1:64 is generally accepted as diagnostic in IFA testing." The literature states that a "Titer of 1:64 (is) indicating a chronic or subclinical infection." "Co-infection increases the severity of the disease, therefore, it is important to diagnose and treat both infections." Complications include "relapses". It is recommended to treat Babesiosis before Lyme Disease in order to increase the effectiveness of Lyme treatments.
The highest risks for death: "The elderly, immunosuppressed patients, and splenectomized patients are the typical populations at risk for severe infection. Patients who are co-infected with Lyme disease have a higher risk of life-threatening illness than with either disease alone.
Of the ticks collected (in the NE US) and sent to the IgeneX Lab by Dr. Richard Ostfeld at the Institute of Ecosystems Studies, 43.3 % of the ticks were infected with Babesia microti (November 1998). Serum samples sent to IgeneX Lab in California, by Dr. Richard Horowitz in 1998, reveled 66% tested positive by RNA and/or PCR.
Medical/legal pitfalls- "Failure to initiate immediate therapy in high risk individuals".
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Posts: 6641 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
posted
Back from LLMD visit. The snowstorms in the midwest made everything interesting, but we made it okay.
Hubby is now going to go on the clindamycin/plaq/biaxin protocol for 40 days. Then he'll do the Rifampin after that if necessary.
The doc said that many of his patients who were like my hubby at this stage, had good success with these combinations. He said after this last round, we'd have to move to the IV. So we're supposed to line up a doctor who is willing to do this.
Doc also wanted to do tests on thyroid levels. Also did the usual kidney/liver/bone marrow work up.
Anyone know of any docs in TN area who will do the IV, if it's necessary?
He talked again about my hubby's test from Igenex and what a high load of bacteria he had. Said it would just take time. (Hubby was ++++ on band 31) Yes that is four pluses, and not a typo.
Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
posted
Bump to first page .....
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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Dave6002
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Member # 9064
posted
quote: IgeneX Labs FISH test for babesia because it tests for multiple strains instead of only one or two
Do they have a new test that tests multiple strains? Before they just could test two strains separately.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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Foggy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1584
posted
Many of us also have an elevated antithyroid antibody, which my LLMD may explain the low temps.
It may not be tested given some also have normal T#s.
Posts: 2451 | From Lyme Central | Registered: Aug 2001
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Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
posted
Well, that's interesting. I'm anxious to hear what Hubby's test results are. Hoping his kidney/liver tests all come back okay.
Guess we'll get the new prescriptions tomorrow, and start the next round. Hoping for good results.
Keep your fingers crossed for us.
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
Igenex can only test for two strands. The Fish only tests for one.
I called them and asked.
I had a fish done at Igenex....was negative...
However, had/have all kinds of babs symptoms.
Herxed bad on babs treatment.
Hang in there. The only exact thing about this disease
And it's co-infections is how bad they make us feel.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
I have friends in our lyme support group who tested negative for babesia and erlichia with the Bowen AND Igenex test.
One took her son to Dr. F's lab and the blood test and photo showed undeniable babesia and erlichia.
They are glad they didn't rely on those national labs, even though they are the best. Even the best isn't good enough...just the way things are with this disease.
That's why we need to campaign for better testing and treatment.
Good luck Kelly
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Yup, I'm with Kelly on the Lab issue!! 100%!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
posted
That's interesting that y'all are having these tests done. I asked the LLMD about more types of testing and he said it wasn't necessary.
Said that the tests just "hit the pocketbook" and the initial tests showed bacteria. He said it just takes time.
He called last week for follow up and said the same thing.......just takes more time for some people.
Good luck to all.
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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