Topic: How can I get ducks to take gallbladder out?
klutzo
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I have been very ill for 9 days now with what is obviously a gallbladder meltdown. The symptoms just don't fit anything else. I need advice on how to get the ducks to believe me. My GI duck is the best in the county, but still a conventional duck, who knows zilch about how Lyme can poison a GB.
What else causes greasy, floating, clay colored stool, upper right quadrant pain right under the rib that radiates to the back, reflux, nausea, chills, and gas? The whites of my eyes are also changing color, but it is too subtle for anyone to notice but me.
My TCM doc says it is both my GB and my liver, and it is a duct problem, but all she can do is acupuncture and give me herbs, which she is doing. I think we are beyond that now.
My abdominal ultrasound, HIDA-EF and labs are all normal though, so the docs are refusing to do anything, and are now insisting on an endoscopy of my stomach.
Meanwhile, I am in constant pain, esp. at night, have nausea, chills, am barely eating, and have lost more than a pound a day so far.
I am afraid they will let me develop gangrene, pancreatitis, or some other life-threatening infection, and the only ABX I am not allergic to is Cipro. I am afraid I could even die, over a lousy bandaid surgery.
Anyone have ideas on how I can get them to listen to me? I will probably have to go through a useless, expensive endoscopy, when the pain is nowhere near my stomach. It is right over my GB. I am so frustrated.
Thanks, Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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trueblue
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Klutzo, I just got in and haven't gotten to return your PM, sorry.
If the whites of your eyes are yellowing go straight to the ER, don't wait, ok? (My sister waited until she was starting to turn yellow and wound up with pancreatitis as well.)
Actually, even if you aren't getting jaundiced, go anyway. You're too sick to not go, don't you think?
I'd feel better if you went, too.
Do you have someone that can take you? (If you call 911, they will get you in faster, also.) I know the hospitals are full of ducks but this is not a Lyme specific problem; it should be straightforward enough for them to at least clear the duct and decide to take the stupid thing out.
Take care; I hope to hear you're recovering from your GB goodbye party soon.
(It took me 3 months for the docs to listen to me and do something about the GB and you are way more symptomatic than I was. My tests only showed small shadowing calculi(?) tiny stones. By the time they took it out there were no stones, so, I did pass them. The GB however was bad, inflammed with adhesions, looked perfect on the ultrasound and disida scan.)
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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I don't know if this helps, but my SIL went to the ER with severe abdominal pain. The ducks said nothing was wrong. She insisted that there was. The only way to rule out that anything was wrong was exploratory surgery. SHe said, IT HURTS! So they did the exploratory surgery only to find out she had a hemorraging ovary. Later, the ducks apologized.
Be persistant! Tell them it hurts. Maybe you have to threaten to sue them. If there is a problem & they do not treat you, you will hold them responsible.
I don't know if this will work or not. I am not a medical professional by any means, but it may be worth a try. Tell you never had this pain before and you have it now and something has to be done!
Kayda
Posts: 582 | From midwest | Registered: Nov 2006
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bettyg
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i agree with kay; be persistent if you're in extreme pain.
i went in for for a knee being dislocated; while examing me, walk-in dr. found 4 things wrong including i needed gallbladder surgery, hiatal hernia, etc.
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klutzo
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Thanks everyone.
I am not in extreme pain, just pretty constant, especially at night. It is about a 4 on a 1-10 scale.
My stool color is normal again, but is diarrhea, whereas I normally have the opposite problem, due to one of my heart meds.
I've already been to the ER, the morning after this started. That's where they did the labs and ultrasound, and told me my GB did not need to be removed. They told me to see my PCP,and she ordered the HIDA-EF and sent me to the GI duck.
I think they were afraid because surgery is so much riskier for me: 1) I have an MVP and can't take any prophylactic ABX due to allergy 2) Because of my BP med, I cannot take any narcotics to kill the pain of surgery, and if I am in pain, my BP soars, despite the meds. 3) I have apnea, which I understand complicates anesthesia. My BP med complicates it as well.
The change in the whites of my eyes is too subtle for anyone to see but me. Even my husband cannot tell. It will have to get worse, or the ducks will think I am a nut.
I don't think I need to mention that as long as the lab says my bilirubin is in normal range, it would not matter to these ducks if my eyeballs were canary yellow.
I am going to call the GI duck on Monday and ask if a CT scan would help. I know he wants to go directly to an endoscope of my stomach, which is not going to show my GB.
I don't want to threaten to sue unless I have to, but already had thought of that. I won't sue anyone trying to help me, even if it ends up hurting me, but if they don't help me, you can bet I'll sue, though my husband says I'd have no case, ie. they will say they did all the right tests and they were negative, so it's not their fault.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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trueblue
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I'm not sure but remember they did this with my mom before taking out her gallbladder to make sure the ducts were clear. I don't know if it's miserable or not, if I remeber correctly she was knocked out for it.
As for the other things. I have MVP and didn't know it until after the surgery. So was not premedicated. During they gave me Ancef, I had no problem with that but am only allergic to Sulfa as far as I know.
Maybe if they tested to look for stuck stones they can get tehm out of the duct and you wouldn't need to have the surgery? Looking for best case scenario.
I really hope this is resolved and you are feeling better soon. Wish I could be some help.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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Have you considered doing a liver flush? I have done several with great results, getting lots of gunk out and flushing out those bile ducts. It might be worth looking into especially if it means you could keep your gallbladder.
Alison
--------------------
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. --- Edward R. Murrow Posts: 923 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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I agree with Alison. A few years back I was told to have my GB taken out after stones showing up on the ultrasound & GB attacks. So I've done 13 Liver Flushes & gotten out all kinds of junk & stones. I no longer have to have my GB out & no more attacks.
-------------------- Pat Sr Posts: 63 | From Toms River,NJ | Registered: Oct 2006
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I am glad someone else besides me brought up the Liver flush. I have been doing a lot of these over the last 16 months.
I did a number of them on my off days of rocephine, under the supervision of my LLMD, and it saved my GB.
My LLMD also tells me to do a couple when my liver enzymes start to climb. Each time they go back down.
Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005
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klutzo
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Hi all,
TRUEBLUE - The HIDA with EF showed all of my ducts are clear and working just fine now. I only had one clay stool, at the peak of the attack. Then that stone moved through. So,they will not need an ECRP, which would have to be done in another city. I was told the ECRP would be done if the HIDA showed any duct blockage, but there was none. I was also told that stones always reform in people who are prone to them, so ECRP is just a preparation for surgery.....unless you flush a lot.....
ALISON - I have done two GB flushes in the past. The second one hurt so much, I am afraid to do another. I think I had a stone caught in duct for about 30 minutes after I started to flush.
If you get a Calcium stone caught in a duct during a flush, it means emergency surgery. CA stones are not softened by the oil or the juice fasting before the flush. They only make up 10% of stones, but it's still a scary proposition.
Also, I saw a study which analyzed the "stones" that are flushed by these procedures. They were found to be primarily made up of olive oil material, not cholesterol, like GB stones. Researchers did admit that they seemed to relieve many people's pain anyway. Maybe the study was flawed....you never know.
ALISON, MR. G. and JOHNLYME1 - Can you post your recipes for the liver flushes you use? I have never done a flush that was just for the liver. If I think I can handle it, maybe I will try it out. Thank you in advance!
Also, you say you've saved your GB's. Does that mean you can eat the high fat and medium protein diet recommended for Lyme, or are you stuck with a very low fat, low protein diet as a result?
I ask because I think I caused this by going to higher fat, which I did to handle carb cravings and balance my lipids. I added raw nuts 3 X daily, raw coconut, krill oil, whole eggs, cheese in my salads, butter on my low carb bread, and rice bran oil to cook with to my diet.
It worked beautifully, and is the only thing that has ever worked, and I've tried it all. I don't want to go back to low fat, which totally messed up my lipid ratios.
Speaking of low fat, today I tried some Ensure drink, the first thing I've had for ten days with any fat at all in it, nd 20 minutes after drinking it, I had that familiar burning and cramping over my GB, which lasted for about ten minutes.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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The liver flush I have done (somewhere between 15-20 times) is the Hulda Clark recipe. It is not the funnest thing to do, and it is pretty taxing on the system, but it is so effective for me. I have gotten out stones, sludge, and variuos parasites including giant liver flukes (Yuck! lol) and what I believe are roundworm eggs and others.
I am familiar with the study you talked about. That one is all over Quackwatch. I've done a lot of research on this, also I know people have had their stones tested, and it does not appear to me that the stones are olive oil. Some of the stones that come out, I would say the majority, are not calcified, because they are too young. But I do not think they are olive oil.
So the Hulda recipe might seem too daunting, which is ok, our systems are quite fragile already with the Lyme, and you really have to be ready to do it. There is another flush that is much more gentle, although it takes a 5 day commitment, but I find this one to be excellent and have done it many times as well. I don't get as many stones out, but it could really help.
It's Dr. Schulze's 5 day Liver/Gallbladder flush. Also a bit more expensive since it involves his herbal formulae, but they are good and worth it.
I skip the ornithine, most people do. Also, most of the time I don't bother with the parasite cleanse before hand, although it was great to do although watch out for what comes out, i.e. my surpirse liver flukes lol. Although Hulda says that it makes the flush a lot better and easier if you do a parasite cleanse first. Also I don't use the straw, I just hold my nose and chug like there's not tomorrow.
With the amount of epsom salts in the Hulda flush, the bile ducts are thrown wide open. This is why you take 4 doses, two of them hours before you make the actual flush drink, so that they are open for everything to move through.
I've been over at Curezone for years and read a lot of anecdotal accounts of people flushing. So far no one that I know of has ever had a stuck stone, but I know it's kind of scary and to be fair you never know for absolutley sure.
Hope that helps! And hope you continue to feel better!
Alison
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The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. --- Edward R. Murrow Posts: 923 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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klutzo
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Thanks Alison!
I was just reading about Hulda Clark's flush online. It does sound tough. For some unknown reason, induced diarrhea tends to make my blood pressure soar into the stroke range, and gives me unbearable chills, so the epsom salts worry me.
The flush I used before involves light eating in the morning, apple juice fasting from 2 PM onward where you drink apple juice every hour, then a mixture of olive oil and lemon juice at bedtime, and laying on your right side.
I picked that one since it was the easiest to do and to find ingredients for. I passed about 25 "stones" 2 days later.
However, I passed the exact same type of tan, floating "stones" with no flush at all, almost every morning for a month before this recent attack started!
I will check out the links you gave me. Thanks again.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Klutzo...I aslo did the Clark recipe. Btw...the GB flush & the Liver flush are one & the same. I have passed some of the largest stones ever recorded at curezone & I didn't feel them coming out.
The health benefits are ridicously outstanding. The LF really gets down to the root cause of almost all ailments. You just need to be more persistent with it, don't give up.
-------------------- Pat Sr Posts: 63 | From Toms River,NJ | Registered: Oct 2006
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klutzo
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If I do the Hulda Clark flush at the link Alison posted above, I would have to substitute lemon juice for grapefruit juice. Grapefruit juice is dangerous with one of my heart medicines. I hope that would be OK.
I still don't understand how I can have gallstones that don't even show up on a HIDA-EF test. Even the small ones are supposed to show up on that test as "shadows", like trueblue mentioned above. I am confused!
I just think I passed a large stone which really put the hurt on my common duct (I felt the pain during the HIDA test when the hormone flowed into that duct) and now it is inflamed and trying to heal, but not suceeding. This is just a guess of course, and does not explain the spread of pain to my back or all over the right side of my abdomen.
Either that or I am totally wrong and I have some sort of colon or liver tumor (the colon makes a sharp turn in the same place the GB is located and the liver is right there too).
I am basing my insistence on it being my GB on my having had a clay colored stool, plus having had those floating "stones" and grease on the H20 in the commode for a month prior to the attack.
Have any of you who passed stones with flushes also had totally normal labs, normal ultrasound, and normal HIDA-EF tests before doing the flushes?
Did any of you have a thickly coated tongue, primarily white but with a yellow-green tinge to it, while you were having problems? I have this, and my TCM doc says it means an overburdened liver, but my GI duck says it means I need to drink more H20. I drink plenty. I am currently taking a TCM herbal formula to help my liver/GB.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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The apple juice has malic acid, which softens the stones, but I think it's best (if you're going to do this flush) to start drinking it at least a few days before - I don't think just doing it the day of gives you enough time to soften the stones. This may be why you got one stuck. That's also why it's so important to have the bile ducts wiiIIIiiiiide open, which is why the epsom salts in the Hulda recipe are so effective. Horrible tasting, but effective.
Yes, the diarrea is a definite minus, especially if you have health complications directly related to that. It is not recommended to do the flush when you are sick for this reason, but in my case I felt like doing it anyway was the way to go, sort of devil/deep blue sea situation.
It's good that your body released stones on its own without the flush -- that means that your body's own detox mechanisms are working! Babies release stones on their own too a lot.
McG -- that is outstanding to hear your results! I've had such great results myself, couldn't believe what came out of me! It's really encouraging to hear of another Lymie who's done the flushes.
A.
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Aniek
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Klutzo,
I've been going through something very similar, although not as severe. I saw a gastro and a surgeon last week.
The surgeon wants to do another HIDA, and if it is normal, he said they would do an ERCP to check and see if something else showed up. They wouldn't work to clear the ducts, just as a diagnostic tool. As long as they are going down, they might as well look farther.
The other tests I'm getting are an abdominal MRI and a stomach emptying study. They really think it's biliary, but the gastro wants to be sure before they cut into me, because I have no stones and the HIDA is about borderline.
Of course, the surgeon said Lyme wouldn't cause gallbladder problems. But so many of us seem to have gallbladder problems with no stones.
My symptoms are light stool (I'm not sure if it is still light, because I take iron which darkens it), upper right abdominal pain that gets worse with fat, nausea, loose stool, had diarhea that seems to have stopped.
I seem to feel better when I'm taking milk thistle. I ran out a few days ago, and the pain's returned. I also feel worse when I eat any dairy, even non-fat dairy.
If you have stones, Actigall can help break them up. But the surgeon said it does nothing if the gallbladder is sick and just not functioning.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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5dana8
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hi klutzo
Did you do the HIDA Scan yet? This is the test that did show my GB was low functioning. My GI doc told me she would not take it out if there where no stones so I do empathize with you. I did end up having an appointment with a surgeon set up thru my LLMD to take it out but was too chicken.
I did eat alot of beets. I hear they are very good for the BG. I also took curcumin caps for my GB & liver which I think helped.
Actvigill(sp?) is a med that helps break up stones. I didn't have stones but had some mod pain & nausea. The pale stool cleared up over time. The nausea is about 1/2 better but some of it is due to GERD.
For your runs...make sure to drink extra water & replace your electro-lites.
hope you can find a way to feel beter soon
Blessings Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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trueblue
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Klutzo, I just don't know. My experiences were similar to yours. Symptoms got worse and then better but the wrap around pain from front to back never stopped. It was worse on eating and way worse whenever some body went poking around in there.
I was afraid to do a flush and after 3 months of holding my side with no relief, I no longer cared. I had a gallbladder attack a year prior with showed a 4 mm adhered stone or polyp and no way wanted to have surgery. Now that it was becoming an annual event and not stopping...
I had been nursing this gallbladder for over 25 years, I was told it was sludgy then and was treated by drinking 6 glasses of papaya juice a day. Which, btw, worked. Many ultrasounds had been taken over the years and I had never had stones before.
The stone/polyp from last year was gone when they did the US this year. But it showed shadowing calcifi(something) this time. They did a scan that didn't measure ejection fraction.
A month later, I went back to my internist and he asked me if I wanted it gone. I was no better and said yes but was still unsure. It took another 2 months to get a surgeon to see me. About a week beofre i was scheduled to have it out I went to my LLMD to see if they would say take it out or clean it out. What I was told was, "That gallbladder has to come out yesterday!"
I hoped against hope I wasn't removing a perfectly healthy organ. I got the surgical report afterwards so I could see. I think this is why I wasn't getting relief...
"Dissection of the gallbladder is initiated at the infundibulum where there were adhesions between the infundibulum and the duodenum consistant with chronic cholecystitis. These adhesions are taken down sharply." (from there they proceeded to do the regular GB removal thing)
Sounds like it wasn't going to get any better no matter what.
It does occur to me they could have done the right or more accurate tests but the gastro didn't care if there were stones and nobody was in a big hurry.
I hope you get some relief soon, one way or the other. I do understand that surgery would be risky and not an easy decision to make. I would talk to the Gastro or whoever makes the most sense and see what and if there are appropriate tests to show what's really going on.
I'm sorry I know how much this sucks.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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5dana8
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ps: I forgot to mention if you have a thick white coating on your tongue & the other colors you metioned this sounds like thrush. Can you treat it? I know this won't cure your GB problems but might help with thrush related problems.
Last time I had bad thrush it traveled down my throat into my esophogus & upper GI system & gave me horrible nausea.
Just a thought
sorry you have to go thru this
ps- you probably know this already but try to stay away from any greasy foods for now.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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klutzo
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Hello again, it's 4 am, and I'm up with nausea, as usual these days....
ALISONP - Yes, I've been drinking apple juice for 11 days now, several times daily. It is one of only a few things I can keep down. I did do that before the other flush too, for two days, and forgot to mention it, sorry.
ANIEK - I'm sorry you have this problem too.. I don't think Actigall will help me, since I have no stones and HIDA showed good function. I DID have burning pain and cramping for 5 minutes, that started 7 minutes after the hormone was injected, but evidently that is not enough.
I thought the ERCP would not be needed unless the HIDA showed blocked ducts. Since everything flowed smoothly, I can't see any additional info to be gained from an ERCP, or am I not understanding? I sure hope we both find a solution, and soon. Let me know how you resolve this.
5DANA8 - I had a HIDA as noted above and was told it was normal. I will try to have beets....have not really been able to eat anything that solid, but maybe one slice would be OK. I am using water and Powerade to keep electrolytes up. I can't add any more herbs since I am taking a TCM herbal formula my TCM doc prescribed for this, and don't want to risk intereactions.
The TCM doc says my tongue coating is not thrush and I agree. It is different, ie. it cannot be scraped or scrubbed off no matter how hard you try, like a thrush coating can. It is much thicker and deeper, and the yellow-green is a liver indicator, not a thrush one.
I can't eat greasy foods even if I wanted to, so don't worry. I can barely eat anything, even after 11 days. The only protein I've been able to eat is 2 spoonsful of non-fat cottage cheese. Yesterday, I had a small can of Ensure, since I desperately need protein. The small amt. of fat in it caused the pain to get worse. I am managing about 500 calories per day, taken in very small amts. each time,and nothng at night. Starting about 7 Pm each evening, I get much worse, with chills, nausea etc.
TRUEBLUE - Two MONTHS to see a surgeon?! OMG, I have NO emotional resilience left, and am barely able to eat. I can't imagine surviving that. The protein loss alone for that much time will cause my hair to fall out and my muscles to waste. You poor thing. If they do that to me, I may blow their brains out, and/or mine. I am glad it seemed you at least had something show up on your HIDA and that your misery is finally over.
ALL - from your descriptions, I am starting to wonder if it only SEEMS to be my GB. I just can't think of any other illness that causes clay colored stool except liver disease, and my liver labs were normal.
You all mostly had at least some kind of minor thing show up somewhere on tests, and even with that, you were still able to eat most foods. I have zero appetite and can barely force down 4 teaspoons of hot oatmeal at once, let alone eat a real meal. I have to cook real meals for my husband and watch him eat them. The smell of his food is hard to take, but not because I'm hungry.
Klutzo
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Aniek
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Klutzo,
The HIDA showed that it was flowing out of your gallbladder. It does not show if the entire biliary system is working properly.
The surgeon told me the ERCP would help them look and see if there is something else going on in the biliary system.
My appetite has been very small. Right now, it's getting a bit bigger since I've cut lots of foods out. Cutting out dairy made a huge difference. Even fat free dairy.
I've found pretzels are pretty easy for me to eat. I can keep them around and just eat a couple at a time.
There are people on this board who have had normal HIDA scans, and when they had their gallbladders out they were sick. But I would think it's worth trying to explore the rest of the biliary system. I'd assume there is the possibility of cysts or other things that block the ducts.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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klutzo
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Aniek, What are you eating for protein if you don't eat fat free dairy? I can't think of a single other thing with protein that does not have fat in it too! That is why I am drinking Ensure, but it has a little fat in it, so I only drink one small can per day, in the morning.
The technician talked to me during my HIDA, since he had moved the screens where I could watch them, and he told me when the tracer flowed from the liver to the GB, then from the GB to the pancreas, and then from there to the duodenoum (sp.?), so I'd know what I was seeing. It also showed it flowing down into my bowel. Because of that, I thought all my ducts were flowing normally. He also told me the tracer would stop flowing at the point where ANY of the DUCTS (plural) were blocked. Was he wrong?
I put in a call to my GI doc and the idiot I got on the phone made me spell HIDA for her, twice. How can someone work in a GI office and not know how to spell one of the most basic tests? I have to wait for a call back.
I called my PCP and requested they mail me a copy of my HIDA results, since I have found many times when they say a test is normal it turns out not to be. For example, in the ER they told me all my labs were normal. I asked for copies, and it turned out my lymphs were much too low (Lyme),and my blood sugar was too high. I DID have pain on the HIDA after the hormone injection, for about five minutes,so I want to see the report with my own eyes.
I also called my TCM doc to ask if she honestly believes she can save my GB with herbs and acupuncture at this late point. I want to know what she thinks before I speak to the GI doc's office about the next step, but I doubt she'll be able to get back to me before late this evening, she is always so booked.
So, it's more hurry up and wait. Meanwhile, I feel just fine except for the pain, which is my usual state during the daytime. I was even able to do my exercise routine, leaving out the weights and the bridges. I tried to do one bridge (an exercise for the lower back) and my GB went balistic.
That makes me wonder, since I read that GB pain does not change when you change positions, unless you have a stone stuck in a duct, in which case it hurts more when you lie down. Does your pain change when you move?
Come evening, I know I will be in hell as usual, with chills , nausea and pain, and reflux keeping me awake. Is yours worse at night too? I read GB trouble usually is much worse at night.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Aniek
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Klutzo,
I can't answer your HIDA scan questions. All I know is that the surgeon said it just looks at the gall bladder, and they would need to acutally look in if the next scan is normal.
For protein, I don't have to worry too much because I take a lot of amino acids. I have an amino acid deficiency, so I can't digest protein anyway. My doctor said I'm getting enough protein from the amino acids he has me on.
But the protein I do eat is eggs. I find I can handle a couple yolks if not cooked with any oil (microwaved or hard boiled). I can also eat lean beef. I've recently discovered a soy allergy, so I stay away from those products. But there are really low fat/no fat soy dogs you might want to try.
I've had my pain hit with movement. The other day I got a really bad spasm near my GB when I breathed too deeply in yoga. It faded, but ached for a while. I also feel better lying curled on my left side when it bothers me. Best with my right leg bent over to the front.
Are you checking your temperature? I know doctors get very concerned if you have gallbladder problems and a fever. The chills you mentioned made me ask. I don't have chills.
Good luck figuring this all out. I'll let you know what I eventually discover, but it's at least 2 more weeks before I get my next round of tests.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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klutzo
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posted
Aniek, I talked to my TCM doc and she suggested a whey protein mix.
I am surprised you can eat eggs. I went to www.gallbladder.attack.com where they have a lot about diets to help you keep your GB, and they said eggs are the #1 food to avoid, and cause attacks in 95% of people with GB problems. I know my TCM doc told me eggs are the only food that causes GB attacks for her. I hate to give them up. They are so healthy, and so cheap.
I was shocked when I read which foods need to be given up to keep your GB. I thought it was a no-brainer, ie. avoid fats except for a small amt. of monounsaturated ones, and you'd be OK. Apparently all cabbage family members, beans, onion, pork, fowl, citrus, milk, and nuts are problems.
This is very bad news, since my two main protein sources are no fat dairy and nuts. Nuts help to prevent the diabetes so prevalent in Metabolic Syndrome, and are also the only thing that has ever raised my low HDL. Beans, brocolli, and nuts are some of the healthiest foods. I can't believe you must give them up to keep your GB! Pork is one of the leaner meats if you buy Smithfield.
I have a DH who wants meat at every meal. I already make two separate meals several days per week. I sure would like to be able to eat with him once in awhile!
I had my big attack 11 days ago, a few hours after eating my once a week "cheat meal", which was very high in saturated fats. It had all the things I never eat during the rest of the week, ie. bacon, cheese, potato chips, frosting, and ice cream. I thought if I gave all that up, I'd be OK. Apparently not.
All the web sites I've looked at want you to do months of parasite cleanses and be pain free for at least six weeks before doing flushes, but let's not forget that Bb is a parasite, and you are never going to be totally rid of it. They say not to do flushes if you are ill, and Bb is one heck of an illness. Then they want you to clean your colon and kidneys, then flush 15 times, then clean the colon again. Have you done all of that?
I will ask the GI doc about the HIDA and ducts and let you know, if they ever call me back. From what I read today, you can have just as many problems after surgery as before, plus some new ones, like dumping. I know two people who have dumping, and it is no fun.
Problems after surgery are more likely in people like me who have constant pain and no visible stones. My back now hurts more than the front, which is supposed to mean my GB is swollen, according to what I read.
I do check my temp, and when I am chilled, the temp is usually much lower, telling me good ole Bb is a major culprit here. The highest temp I had was 98.4, after using an electric blanket on high to warm up. The lowest was 91.3, which is dangerously low. When I have chills, it is usually 96.5. I had it up to an average of 97.6 when I was on Samento, and I blame my stopping Samento as one of the triggers of this problem.
I am sorry about your amino deficiency, but glad you have found a way to get your protein. I did not know it was safe to get all protein from supplements....I learned something today!
What kind of tests are you having in your "next round of tests"? Have you had an ERCP?
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
My Disida scan was considered normal. The tracer dye flowed through int the 2 hours they kept me there.
(What showed chronic inflammation and adhesions was the surgical report, after the fact. )
They didn't do the part of the test where the make the gallbladder retract. Turns out there's only one place in the surrounding area that would do that part of the test.
So, all it told me was there wasn't complete blockage. I was really annoyed at having the test done wrong but refused to pay for it to be done again.
I was able to eat but only a little and only some of the time. It didn't matter if it was fatty or not. I don't know what that meant.
I had awful pulling pain trying to lay on either side and mostly slept with my hand and something propped against my abdomen to keep pressure there.
The clincher, when seeing the LLMD, was they thought my elevetate liver functions were consistant with what you would see with a GB problem. (Originally the thought it was from the low dose Ketek I was taking.)
Klutzo and Aniek, I hope you both get answers and help soon. I'm sorry you're in GB limbo. Hang in there, k?
eidted to add: Klutzo, you posted while I was still trying to write, lol. Afterwards, the back pain in that area was gone. So the wrap around thing is over.
I still cannot eat fried foods but have never been able to anyway. Not like they're good for me anyway; I just wanted to see what it was like for people that can, you know?
I only just had it out at the end of december so am not sure how I'll be in the long run.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Klutzo,
I definitely am not having the severe attacks you are. I get aches, and the most pain is actually what refers to my shoulder and hand. That's sharp pain.
I can handle some fat, as long as I don't go too high. I seem to be ok when I eat about 10 grams of fat, and a large egg has about 4.5 grams. Have you tried just eating boiled egg whites?
I had one doctor suggest the flushes. But my LLMD warned me it would cause an attack.
Quite honestly, if my GB is sick, then I'm ready to have it taken out. My LLMD thinks it's very hard to get rid of Lyme when your GB is sick, because the Lyme will just keep hold in your GB.
I'm also sensitive to lemon. So I would have to try lime in the flush and I'm not sure that would work.
I think I would stay away from a cheat meal. I had french fries and pb&j on Saturday night and felt it.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
TRUEBLUE - Thanks for the info. My HIDA test did have the retraction part, which is called "EF". I am glad your pain is better.
I can't lay on my sides anymore either. For the first time in my life I am sleeping on my back, which would be dangerous except for my CPAP machine.
ANIEK -I definitely plan to totally give up my cheat meals once weekly and get the extra weight off once and for all. This has scared me badly. I did the one cheat meal as a way to help me feel less deprived and keep me on the diet the rest of the time, and it worked, but I could not lose weight with even one cheat meal per week.
I went to make my 4 teaspoons of oatmeal with 1 teaspoon of natural applesauce and 1/3 cup milk for my dinner, only to find that my DH had bought 3 cartons of milk, all of which are 2%! I could not believe it....we only use fat free milk. They must have been out at the store.
I figured out it worked out to 1 1/2 grams of saturated fat, so I ate it anyway. If I can't handle even that much fat, I need the GB out. I hope I won't be sorry later. The pain got worse before I even finished it.
It sounds like your problems are relatively minor, and I would keep my GB with your sx, except that as you say, the Bb hide out there and reinfect the body. It's a tough decision, and I am totally unable to make it right now. The ducks aren't letting me choose anyway.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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5dana8
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posted
ps-just ignore the bottom post. I am not good at reading today & didn't catch your above post about the whey your doc suggested.
can you do whey protein powder? It was easy for me to digest when I was at my mosted nauseated.. Mixed one scoop it in with water. It disolves nicely. I use the vanilla flavored but it comes in different flavors.
I hope you can find some relief soon.
ps: When I was puking for so long the only rx that helped me was generic promethazine
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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5dana8
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posted
klutzo-
Just an after thought but when my GB was acting up I went to a GB support site & many people said that durning a HIDA Scan you can not move at all....not the tinest bit when they shoot the infraction dye in- it can skew the results
I will go back & see if I can find the webb site
hang in there I know its rough Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Klutzo-
here's the liver & GB support site. I didn't join as a member- just scrolled the posts:
* 25 really jumped out at me- Chronic pancreatitis: appetite loss, faitgue,vomiting,back ache, pale stools
Hope this helps hang in there
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
HI 5dana8, I decided to follow Aniek' example and I ordered a good encapsulated amino supplement instead of whey. It is just easier for me. I also ordered a good mixed fiber supplement, since everything I read said this is super important for people with GB problems.
Phenergan aka Promethiazine is wonderful for nausea, sedation, and allergies, but it's also a heart stimulant, and causes me to have PSVT's, so I can't take it. I'm glad you can. I took Benadryl, but it didn't work too well. Though I felt on the verge all the time, I never actually threw up.
I don't think you can have pancreatitis without an elevated white count. My labs were all normal. I do understand there is a higher risk of getting it the longer they leave a bad gallbladder in.
I was very still during the HIDA, and in fact, I fell asleep for a short time! I also watched it on the computer screens, and could easily see the tracer and the hormone flowing from one organ to the other. It was cool to watch.
My nausea is almost gone, and I do have some appetite now, but nowhere near normal. The back pain is now worse than the front pain.
I restarted digestive enzymes with my "dinner" of 1/4 cup oatmeal last night, and the pain immediately went down by 75%, which is very interesting. I have been unable to eat much of anything without enzymes for over a decade now. I had stopped taking them a week before this attack to try to save money, and that may have been one of the triggers.
One thing this experience has taught me is that if Codex is indeed made law in the USA in 2009, as scheduled, I will die. I just can't live without my supplements.
Thanks for the links!
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Update: I spoke too soon. This morning I woke up with the worst pain yet, and it has gone up into my right armpit and shoulder. Despite having a total of only 2 grams of fat yesterday, I had grease on the commode H20 again this morning.
I called the GI doc's office, and the same Idiot I talked to yesterday had completely forgetten who I was, had not gotten the HIDA report as promised, and put me on hold forever. Finally another Idiot came on and asked me about my brother's colonoscopy! I was not too nice at that point.
I am so spoiled by alternative medicine now, that I simply cannot abide the broken down chaos that conventional medicine has become, but I need the da*n surgery, so I am forced to deal with these clowns. Frankly, putting myself in their hands scares me half to death.
They promised to call nuclear medicine and get the report, but I had learned my lesson about their competence. I waited half an hour and called nuclear medicine myself, only to find that they had NOT called, as I suspected. I did their job, and the report will be faxed immediately. Now comes the hard part....convincing this doc I need my GB out despite all normal tests.
Meanwhile, this is day #13 of constant pain, and I am back to not eating again. Prolonged fasting causes gallstones. Great.
Klutzo
P.S. The GI doc offie just called and he wants me to have an Upper GI barium x-ray of my stomach. I told the nurse to tell him it's the FAR right side and up into my right armpit and it's worse than ever...not my stomach. They said they'd page him, but they hvae not called back. I think I just made the arrogant *** so mad he will not deal with me.
Meanwhile, a friend of my DH just wrote and told me he had a HUGE stone caught in a duct and it did not show up on any of their tests. He used hard liquor to kill the pain for months and then went to the ER again, and the doc finally agreed to take it out.
[ 20. February 2007, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: klutzo ]
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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