klutzo
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Member # 5701
posted
Do any of you know what kind of diet you can eat to help keep your gallbladder? Have any of you suceeded in keeping yours, despite more or less constant pain and worse pain after eating, no matter what you eat?
I am still in constant misery, 17 days after my last attack, but they will not take out my GB, because the tests are normal.
The info I've found on the Internet is contradictory. I read how I should eat low fat, but then I see a list of forbidden foods that includes all milk products, and I've been eating non-fat cottage cheese. Isn't it just milk fat that is the problem?
I also see non fat foods like beans, corn, oragnes, and nuts (good fat) on the list of no-no foods.
The only food to avoid that everything I've read agrees on is eggs.
Dairy, nuts, and beans have long been my main protein sources. I have now been reduced to whey powder, and greens powder, mixed into clear liquids.
Today is my birthday, and this morning I was down on my knees, crying my eyes out and praying for God to let me die in my sleep....the best birthday present I could have. I just can't take anymore after 21 years of this.
I really need some diet help here to get some relief. Thanks,
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Geneal
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posted
Sorry you are having such difficulty with your gall bladder. It took 3 different ultrasounds and about three weeks for them to find multiple stones in mine.
I finally was dx. on a Thursday. Surgeon wanted to do surgery on Friday, but my husband was out of town.
Requested surgery for Mon. They allowed this with the disclaimer that I go immediately to an ER if I had another violent attack.
So, to make it through the weekend, I basically ate baby food. Yuck!!!
The fruit was good. I made mashed potatoes, ate some turkey (small, small bites) and very small meals.
I tried to eat a little something about every 1-2 hours, so that if I was having an attack I would know.
I was able to make it through the weekend without major problems.
A bland diet was what was rec'd to me.
No fats, no spices, no hot(spicy) foods, and very small meals as to not set off that chain reaction.
Hope this helps and you can get dx. soon.
Are you sure it is not pancreatits? I have had bouts of this following my gall bladder removal and I described as
gall bladder attacks, except I no longer had a gall bladder.
Liver enzymes would be off for pancreatitis.
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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5dana8
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Member # 7935
posted
Hi Klutzo
here's a few links on GB diets. Scroll down to the diet paragraphs. I would like to add you could try to eat more beets if your tummy allows. And also someone reccomended curcumin...which i am now taking.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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klutzo
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posted
DANA - thanks so much for the links! My TCM doc has me eating two slices of beets every two hours. She also has me on a drink before each meal of unsweetened cranberry juice, lemon juice, and apple cider vinegar and water.
GENEAL - You must have been in really awful pain! They gave me one ultrasound and that was definitive as far as they were concerned. The ER doc even put in his report that I was "not tender", an out and out lie. I was not screaming in pain, but I did not go to the ER because I felt great...it hurt and it still hurts. Did you have a high white count? A fever?
How did you get them to do repeat ultrasounds? In the last five years, I've had 4 ultrasounds and 2 HIDA scans, all about a year apart. This was by far the worst attack though and it is still going on.
I am eating just like you said. The first week, I was on clear liquids only. I use ginger ale in small amts. also, and make sure I take digestive enzymes with each meal.
It isn't pancreatitis. My liver enzymes were normal and so were my digestive enzymes,though they were on the low side of normal as usual, not high like with pancreatitis.
I have read that leaving in a painful GB like this can lead to pancreatitis, liver damage, or even peritonitis from a ruptured GB, so I am scared,esp. since I only have one ABX I am not allergic to. If I got an infection, and Cipro did not work, I'd be dead.
My TCM doc ordered another herb for me that breaks up stones and can be tried for a max of 3 weeks. I am praying it will help. She says the problem is in a duct, not the GB itself. Either a stone is stuck in a duct that did not show on the HIDA scan, or a large stone damaged a duct on it's way out.
If the herbs don't help, the GI doc says I will have to endure an endoscopy, just to rule out duodenal issues, and then probably an ERCP, to make sure no duct problems exist, and then if I am lucky, finally get the GB out.
I am sorry you've had pancreatitis. I hope you did not have to be hospitalized. I guess diet has to change drastically once GB issues start, even if they remove the GB.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
I'm so sorry Klutzo, this is no way to have a birthday. I say we move it to when you are up for celebrating.
I hope the beets, herbs and juices help. I have no great suggestions. I only ate small amounts of whatever I could tolerate without too much discomfort. Eating itself seemed more a problem than fat specifically.
how long are you to take the herbs, juices, etc... in order to tell if they help? I really hope they do and soon. If not it'd be worth the stupid tests just to get this over with. Grrr... I'm so sorry.
You might want to ask about Papaya juice. I was told to drink 6 glasses a day in my early 20's when they first suspected GB sludging. I was not like I was the past year or 2 but at that time it did help.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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ArtistDi
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Member # 2297
posted
To accurately measure pancreas levels, it is the amylase and lipase levels that are measured in the blood. Pancreas is located on left side of belly button.
Posts: 1572 | From Hatfield, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Dear Klutzo,
I was initially dx with the stomach flu. My soon to be husband and I flew off to Utah, where we eloped and were married.
I was up every night in pain that gradually got worse.
It began to travel from the front all the way to the back.
I don't believe my white blood cell count was abnormal at all.
Shoot, I had appendicitis for two weeks with a normal white blood cell count.
My pancreatitis is believed to be caused by a stone left in the common bile duct following the removal of my gall bladder.
I kept having ultrasounds as I kept changing doctors.
Started with a GP, moved to an internist, etc.
Each one ordered an ultrasound not ever asking if I had one before.
I remember having 2 done in two days as the first was inconclusive.
I didn't eat for about 24 hours, and thats when the stones showed up.
As surgeries go, that one was relatively easy.
Done via laporoscopy. About two weeks down time.
My poor new husband. We had to do the sickness and in health thing with surgery 11 days after we were married.
Hang in there. Just out of curiosity, can't they just scope you (I think it's called an EGD) and pull out the stone?
That is what they wanted to do to me with the pancreatitis, however I was 36 weeks pregnant.
Once the baby was delivered, my pancreatitis magically went away.
A Gastro MD could advise you on the scope.
Might be worth a look and may get rid of your pain.
Sending positive thoughts and healing prayers your way.
Keep us posted please.
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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klutzo
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Member # 5701
posted
TRUEBLUE - I've been on the liver/gallbladder helping herb formula for two weeks. The stone breaking herb, once it comes in, is a 2-3 week course.
The endoscopy will rule out duodenal cancer, but then I still have to convince a surgeon to operate, and was told it won't be easy. They may want to do an exploratory, not laparoscopic, which is a disaster for me, since I can't take any narcotics for pain.
If my TCM doc is correct, they might take out the GB and miss the problem anyway, since it's a duct.
I just ate the exact same no fat foods for lunch and dinner, in the same amounts. At lunch, I had no symptoms, but at dinner, I had 3 minutes of intense pain. Go figure.
ARTIST DI - Yes, you are correct. My amylase and lipase levels were both low normal, and my pain is up on the right side, goes around to the back, and up into my right armpit....a classic gallbladder pattern.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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klutzo
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Member # 5701
posted
GENEAL - What a way to start out a marriage! I am sorry your honeymoon was ruined.
I see the key to getting more ultrasounds is to go to new doctors. I hate doctors, so that would be tough for me.
The scope you refer to is called ERCP and carries some risks, one of them being pancreatitis. It is also only done in another city, not here. Regular endoscopes cannot see the GB, or pull out stones from ducts.
The ER docs do not say a stone is in my duct. They said I had costo-chondritis, which I have had since 1988. They passed the buck and just wanted to get rid of me because of my ABX allergy/MVP, apnea, and no narcotic problems, which would make surgery risky.
It is my TCM doc who says there is a stone in a duct, or else that a stone damaged the duct on it's way through. She has no power to get surgery for me though, only the GI doc can do that, and even he says the surgeon has to be convinced. The wait to see my GI doc is 2 months right now. I can't imagine what the wait to see a different one would be!
My GI doc agrees with me that it is most likely my GB, but says no surgeon will touch me without an abnormal test. However, I read on the Internet, several articles by docs who say if the GB hurts all the time like mine does, it needs to come out, stones or not. It is too risky to leave it in.
The bottom line, IMO, is they are so afraid of a malpractice suit, they'd rather risk my dying of infection, perforation, etc. My saying I would sign a release did not impress them.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I have no idea if this will help or not, but sawyour post and thought I'd share.
At my dr. visit last week, my gallbladder was tender & it also showed signs of stress. So, my dr. is having me do a liver/gallbladder flush this weekend. I'm in the midst of it now.
There's a lot of info at Curezone on it. I'm sure in your condition you'd have to make sure you could do it, if you were interested in it. I'm sure there are people on Curezone who've been in your shoes and who would know much better than I would know.
I am so sorry for all you're going through. I've been there myself more often than I care to remember. Missed my own birthday, my dh's my dc's b-days all because of this illness.
Life is rough when you're burdened by all the health problems that face us continually and on a daily basis. It plains just wears you out! We gotta hang in there trusting the Lord to guide us, helping each other, praying,asking, seeking, knocking and overcoming this awful thing.
I hope you don't feel alone because we're here with you.
Kayda
Posts: 582 | From midwest | Registered: Nov 2006
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lymednva
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9098
posted
Klutzo,
Just curious, what's your white count? Is it within normal range? I ask because I know a young woman who just had emergency GB surgery, laparoscopy didn't work, and her white count was through the roof.
She ended up in the hospital for over a week. We certainly want you to be able to avoid that if at all possible.
Too bad so many ducks are more concerned about their rear ends than their patients!
-------------------- Lymednva Posts: 2407 | From over the river and through the woods | Registered: Apr 2006
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klutzo
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Member # 5701
posted
KAYDA - Thanks, I have done flushes in the past, and have done a lot of reading on them. Most who write about flushing are adamant that you should never flush while you are in pain or ill, because it could be a stone stuck in a duct, and flushing could result in emergency surgery due to rupture/peritonitis. Though I may want surgery, I do not want the ER kind, since that would be exploratory, with a big, painful incision, and I cannot take ANY pain meds.....they combine with my blood pressure med and make me stop breathing. Also, if I get peritonitis, I am in even worse trouble than most, since I only have one ABX I am not allergic to. I hope it works for you.
One thing I learned in my reading is you must always take the Epsom salts before the olive oil and lemon juice, no matter how unpleasant the resulting diarrhea is, since the salts dilate the ducts to help keep stones from getting stuck. I never did that. I just did apple juice fasting, followed by the olive oil and lemon.
One person told me her LLMD said flushing causes attacks, and in fact, that is what happaned the last time I flushed. The first flush worked fine, but the second one caused so much pain, I am afraid to do it again.
LYMEDNVA - My white count was normal. However, the GI doc told me it is entirely possible to have cholecystitis with a normal white count. Too bad the ER doc did not know that, or more likely, chose to ignore it, since he did not want to deal with my ABX/pain med/apnea problems. The longer you have cholecystitis, the more the chance of liver damage or pancreatitis. Lovely.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Aniek
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Member # 5374
posted
Klutzo,
Have you tried Actigall? It's a prescription drug that breaks up stones. One of my doctors says it also just loosens up sludgy bile, if that is your problem.
He said if it's sludgy bile, it won't show up on the tests and won't go away when the GB is taken out. But it can cause the same symptoms. It's a thought.
Also, have you tried an anti-spasmodic? I'm not sure if you can take it if you can't take narcotics. But I tried one. It's supposed to help if the pain is being caused by a spasming duct. And it can help diagnose that, because if it doesn't help the pain, then it's not a spasming duct.
I might not respond. I'm crazy busy and checking the board very irregularly.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Hi Klutzo, A TSP of olive oil and apple cider vinegar taken daily per my LLMD. I take this daily since I am on Rocephin. Take Care, Brian.
Posts: 13 | From ohio | Registered: Nov 2005
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
ANIEK - I am to start a TCM version of Actigall today, if the order came in, called herba lysimachiae. It is supposed to work within two weeks though, whereas Actigall can take up to two years. If it does not work, I will have to beg my PCP for another GB ultrasound, to see if my starvation diet has caused some more stones to form. (Fasting causes stone formation)
The HIDA scan tech told me the HIDA does see sludge! I am getting so many differing views, my head spins.
By anti-spasmodics, do you mean like Reglan or Bentyl? If so ,they make me lose my balance completely, so I can't take them. I am taking Xanax, which relaxes muscles. That is a good idea though, thanks for bringing it up. I will google anti-spasmodics, and see what I come up with.
BRIAN - I do take apple cider vinegar, in a drink my TCM doc has me on before meals. It is unsweet cranberry juice, apple cider vinegar, lemon juice and water, with a bit of stevia to help get it down.
Do you take a teaspoon or a tablespoon of olive oil? Do you take it at bedtime? The olive oil flush is what caused my last attack before this one, so I am leery. I cannot even handle totally fat free foods now.
Thanks
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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