-------------------- Hugz, Tugz and Health to you! Greg/bubbear http://centralfloridaresearch.com Treasure the love you receive above all. It will survive long after your good health has vanished.Og Mandino Posts: 109 | From Central Florida | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
Areneli
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6740
posted
What a shoddy science! Their test is not patentable.
No doubt that I will stay with Igenex regarding my further testing.
Posts: 1538 | From Planet Earth | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Thanks, bubbear.
Areneli, the Q-RIBb test was patented and that didn't seem very important to most people.
I'm just trying to understand the fuss about patent/ no patent.
Well, I'm going to take the "wait and see" approach on the new test.
Science isn't everything. After all, according to "science", Bumble Bees can't fly.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
I agree - let's wait and see but keep an open mind. To totally discount something that we all know very little about is to walk away from something that could be very useful to all of us.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
In order for something to be patented, it only has to be "unique" and "non-obvious". It does not have to be "new" materials or employ new technology.
Just because you can't find CFR's patent application online does not mean that it won't happen. It simply may not have reached that point yet.
Give it a little time. If the patent process doesn't happen, I will be upset, too.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662
From what I understand about the flow cytometry technique it seems to me that this test could be useful for patients such as hubby who either do not produce antibodies or they are bound to immune complexes.
2 of hubby's 3 positive tests were from a Recombinant Antigen test previously available from MDL. He had one positive PCR test from IGeneX. Has only ever had one band show on one of numerous Western Blots from many different labs.
If this test can actually detect antigens versus antibodies then it may be useful for seronegative patients.
Does anyone know how much the test costs?
Have the kit from the Arizona lab and will be mailing that off next week. Not sure we can afford this new test right now, but would defintely consider it in the future.
Babesia seems to be a bigger problem for hubby than Lyme so that is what we are concentrating on now.
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that most people either have antigens or antibodies but not both.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
Ann-OH
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2020
posted
Thanks for the website http://scq.ubc.ca/?p=277 David. This is not a new procedure. [quote] Applications of Flow Cytometry
Flow cytometry is used in a variety of different fields including immunology, pathology and medicine, all the way to plant breeding [5-7]. A few of the most common applications are listed below: [end quote]
[The applications shown are DNA Content, Evaluation of cell surface markers and cell sorting ]
from the website - this gives the costs etc. I am not advertising for them. Ann - OH
WHAT DOES THIS TEST SHOW? The testing that we do is intended to show if the person has been exposed to the bacteria known as Borellia Burgdorferi, the causative agent of Lyme Disease.
WHO CAN ORDER THIS TEST? Any physician/practitioner who is licensed by the state in which they practice can order this test for you.
HOW DOES THE TESTING PROCESS WORK? The physician can order the collection kit online by accessing the ORDER KIT FORM contained in this web site.
When the blood sample is drawn it is returned to us in the prepaid mailer by FEDEX overnight for processing. The results are sent to your physician/practitioner's office within 72 hours from the time we receive the blood.
Blood samples are accepted Monday through Friday. Please do not send bloods for delivery on weekends.
WHAT IS THE COST OF TESTING? We offer a variety of test methods. Each test is priced on the test description form that is sent with the collection kit. The costs range from $125.00 to $300.00 per test that your doctor orders.
IS THIS TESTING COVERED BY INSURANCE? At this time we are not covered by any insurance or by Medicare. We accept credit cards or bank checks for payment in U.S. funds. We can not accept personal checks for testing. We accept most major credit cards.
CAN TESTING BE ORDERED BY PHYSICIANS IN EUROPE? Yes, we accept samples from physicians/practitioners all over the world for this testing. Sending samples back from Europe is done through DHL or UPS. Both of these companies offer a 48 hour delivery service. At this time that shipping is not prepaid, it is the expense of the patient sending the blood.
posted
The only shoddy joke that is a lie to the public is for someone to state that they know there has been no application for a patent on this test. And if CLIA and the State of Florida accept the validation for this test far be it from me to claim to be more qualified than them.
-------------------- Hugz, Tugz and Health to you! Greg/bubbear http://centralfloridaresearch.com Treasure the love you receive above all. It will survive long after your good health has vanished.Og Mandino Posts: 109 | From Central Florida | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662
posted
The patent /no patent status is rather immaterial. A priority patent can be filed for $100 on a website, this will hold the uniqueness of the intellectual property for 1 year from date of filing. "Technically", filing a priority patent is "patent Pending", it also does not mean that a patent will be granted. The end result is that the patent status is irrelevant as to how good the test is.
The bigger questionis how well does the cytometer based direct IFA (not Indirect) work and what are the limitations. There is no doubt that the flouresence counting technique works, there is however always the question of how well the antibodies work and what they adhere to.
So the initial question that comes to mind is does anyone know what antibodies are used in the test? Where do they come from, is it specific to the bacteria (whole bacteria) or just the dangling ends from the fractured surface protiens?
How does the antibody detect the L form spheroplast as it does not have a surface sturucture for the conjucate to grab on to since it is apparently coated with some type of lipid layer?
How much discrimination is provided by the combination of small aperture size and antibody bound foresence. Presumably this two dimenaional sorting woudl be able to provide significant improvmeent in selectivity?
Does the antibody detect blebs, which according to NIH Rocky mountain are seem in vast numbers in infected people, If not has this been investigated?
These are but a few questions that I have. I am not saying the technique is no good (time will certainly tell this one way or the other), I am just interested in some of the details of how it works since the website information is somewhat limited. There should be no reason why the info can not be released as a patent filling can be done to protect the information.
While I agree that the multi dimensional charactertization that is afforded by a floresence cytometer has nany advantages which could result in tremendous improvement in accuracy, the key is in the implimentation and the reagents used. As a result, I would feel much more comfortable if these later aspects where promoted rather the the use of the more or less off the shelf machine itself. The machine is nothing more than a tool, If it is used correctly it can do wonderful things, If it is not, it is basically useless.
I am truly interested in the answers to some of the above (as I am sure are some others), if someone knows please let me know , via PM if need be, but please, no (more) hate mail on the subject....we all have the right to our own opinion, includng those who don't agree with yours.
[ 04. March 2007, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: david1097 ]
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic