posted
My teenage son is having increasing pain in his back and chest (herxing?) for the past week or so. Doc told him to take 500 mg. Magnesium 3x's per day. This is to help with the pain. Vicodin isn't helping.
I read somewhere that you should take Mg and Calcium together for proper absorption. Is that true ? If so, how much Calcium? Equal doses? What type?
Also, he needs to take iron,fish oil and Selenium based on bloodwork results. Doc wants us to order from Metagenics. Any suggestions or caveats ? Is Selenium supplementation good or bad for Lyme, Babs and Bart?
Would particularly like to hear from Marnie on this as I value her posts highly. Thanks.
Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I'm not qualified to offer official advice, but I think if you get a standard amount of calcium, the extra Magnesium won't be a problem. I've read Marnie post that you want small doses of Mg all day long so your body has it to deal with the infection/etc.
Selenium is really important too. I hope that others with better links to research jump in on this post.
Metagenics is a quality brand and some doctors sell it at their wholesale discount cost which is nice. The same products are sold under a different label/name to the public at large.
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
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He maybe in an "iron save" mode. Need to "feel" the spleen (doc). Is it enlarged?
Many pathogens need iron, so the body as a protective measure, stores it....removing it from circulation.
However...in oxidative stress (our astronauts also have problems with this), PFK levels drop AND they return home to earth anemic.
Oxidative stress alone looks to cause anemia. I'm now wondering if this increase in oxidative stress also causes lower PFK levels? Which maybe another reason why the body is using this (harmful) way to rid Bb.
A co-infection with babesia could also cause the anemia.
Selenium helps to lower TNF alpha. The KIND of selenium matters.
Fish oils/Omega 3s are very much needed.
Ginkgo will help protect his brain. It works like Viagra in the noggin. (Dilates the blood vessels.) Pharmanex daily packages contain a good blend of the nutrients...including Ginkgo.
It is important to keep the vessels relaxed and the blood "thin (ish)".
Chorella is a lot of nutrients wrapped up in one tiny pill. Like a daily "multiple" except far superior.
Gluco Reg by Solaray maybe beneficial. It is chromium + acids = raise the pH.
Vitamin E levels drop in lyme. I prefer Gamma E by Jarrow which contains all 4, not just "alpha". Take vitamin E and selenium with meals.
Alpha looks to be "anti-inflammatory" while gamma looks to be "anti-oxidant". We don't know how the beta and delta aspects of vitamin E work.
Bb appears to trigger a huge "allergic" reaction.
With Mg low for many reasons, this is compounded because Mg IS a natural anti-inflammatory and anti-histamine.
Mg is given IV to halt status asthmaticus...a life threatening asthma attack.
It is needed to make HEALTHY antibodies, needed to INactivate HMG CoA reductase (halt VLDL release from the liver), needed as Mg-ATP to make cAMP to release energy as well as INactivate PFK which Bb is dependent on...the list goes on!
Getting it back INTO the cells is another thing because several of the cellular "pumps" are not working.
If he was NOT on abx, I would suggest 100mg of Mg citrate, a lecithin, and a B50 complex every 2 hours for 6 doses per day. This is what I would do. Yes, I know...lecithin contains choline which Bb is after, but we really, really need it too, for many reasons!
Please read my posts re: "Miracle Drug", "Camp Lyme" and "Zinc fingers". I think researchers have found another way to knock off "PFK dependent" pathogens. Print them out and study them until they "click".
We WILL find a way!
P.S.
Mg works in "harmony" with B6...but all the "B's" work together.
Get his pH up....use all the combinations of glycogen + acids and minerals + acids you can find.
AlkaMax by TriMedica contains a nice "blend". It comes with free litmus paper to test pH.
Hydrogen INactivates PFK. Hydrogen goes right into the cells, but looks to be carried into the mitochondria (powerhouses) via CoQ10, which we make when we exercise, but need B6 and thus Mg to make it. This enzyme ($)comes in capsules that contain, not only the enzyme, but the nutrients as well. It is formulated with either rice bran or soybean oil...which themselves contain the nutrients needed.
As far as his diet goes, start thinking Italian. A Mediterranean diet IS the healthiest (esp. the olive oil!). Get cookbooks at the library. Stir fry Chinese with lots of veggies and a little meat is also far healthier.
We need to avoid insulin spikes. This activates PFK. Complex carbs do NOT cause insulin spikes, but sugar does.
We are going to hit Bb from the "sugar" angle...INactivate PFK. Researchers have found another way to do this (normally Mg-ATP does this).
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
My nutrition teacher told us that large dosage of calcium and iron can affect the absorption of other minerals.
My Lyme doctor who is more alternative-treatment inclined told me not to take calcium and magnesium together. I do not remember what his reasons are.
I used to take CalMag, which has both calcium and magnesium. Now I take them seperately.
Posts: 34 | From California | Registered: Mar 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Calcium, our most abundant mineral, is more "reactive" than Mg.
Li, K, Na, Ca, Mg...
This is the "reactivity" list in order from most reactive to least.
This is the ability of those minerals to react with acids to produce...
HYDROGEN.
It should come as no surprise that K is normally INSIDE the cells, NOT Na.
This cellular pump (Na-K) isn't working properly.
Bb looks to like Na in the cells.
Na carries choline (which we know Bb is after) into the cells.
OspC opens the Na channels .
"Vinpocetine, the active ingredient of Cavinton, has long been used for the treatment of cerebrovascular disorders. It inhibits PDE1 izoenzyme and
blocks voltage-gated Na-ion channels in neurons ."
This is why I believe we need to INhibit BOTH PDE4 AND PDE1.
This is one of the ways, Bb gains a foothold...by expressing OspC and opening the Na channels.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Thank you Marnie and others for your posts. I was hoping you'd respond, as always, with your very detailed and educational information.
I would like to know WHICH Selenium does my son need to take? His doc checked him last week and did not mention anything about an enlarged spleen.
He takes Zith, Mepron, Tindimax, Juice Plus (Fruits & Veggies), Theralac, Xango Mangosteen, and goes for Acupuncture 1x per week. Doc J. wants him to start getting gentle physical therapy which he feels will also help with the pain and spasms.
I know you said to take slow-release Magnesium. Should one do that if they take abx? We just started him on Mg yesterday and I spaced it 2-3 hours after abx.
I am very grateful for your input and help. God bless you for helping us.
Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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posted
thanks Marnie for all this info on magnesium -i have a real big problem maintaining Mg cellular levels-i'm reliant on injecting Mg every other day as my Mg levels are so low. (red cell levels still at 1.63 (normal > 2.05) despite injecting) From your post above i can only believe the Mg cellular pump isnt working?? as the Mg doesnt hold intracellularly
Marnie -if you are still reading this post, what'S the best way to get the Mg pump working & keep Mg in the cells?? would you recommend the oral approach you mentioned?
"100mg of Mg citrate, a lecithin, and a B50 complex every 2 hours for 6 doses per day"
with regards blocking the PDE1 with Vinpocetine & the PDE4 with hesperidin -have any lymies tried this with success? or is this latest research yet to be trialled? i've been really interested reading your "miracle drug" post -please keep up the research
thanks i'm greatful for any advice
Posts: 83 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2005
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troutscout
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3121
posted
Americans over do Calcium...it REQUIRES Magnesium to properly 'convert/process it"...this therefore throws our magnesium levels even lower as we already know that LYmies suffer from depleted magnesium levels.
As a former nutritional counselor/salesman for a large National Chain "Health Store" I have extensive hand-on experience with its use/results...I recommend Enzymatic Therapies CALM formula. It is powdered Magnesium Citrate...and is wonderfully tasty.
Hoipe this helps.
Selenium? If my memory is correct...use the "yeast' form for best efficacy.
I am glad to see that you are using the XanGo Brand of mangosteen!
You are only shy one thing in your son's regimen...Artimisinin.
Good Luck and God Bless.
Trout
-------------------- Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within. Let the claws be bared, and Lyme BEWARE!!! www.iowalymedisease.com [/URL] Posts: 5262 | From North East Iowa | Registered: Sep 2002
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Thank you Trout for your informative post. I always research things and have found a wealth of information on this website.
I'm grateful to God and all of you for your help. We are, after all, in the same boat. If I had waited around for some duck to tell me what was wrong with my son......I shudder to think!!!!
Now I am working on greatly reducing or completely eliminating my son's pain. It would make a world of difference. Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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