posted
As many of you may recall, I had asked for prayers for my friend & her daughter a few weeks ago.
Several weeks ago, the editor of the PHA (Dawn) had to rush her daughter to the ER, then to the ICU due to what was diagnosed as meningitis.
I guess it was bacterial meningitis as the antibiotics seemed to help - even though the lady at the Tx Dept of Health couldn't "culture" anything.
We had been wondering if it was Lyme meningitis - in fact, Dawn rather boldly confronted a hospital ID duck when she asked IF he was checking for Lyme meningitis. (Naturally he 'poo-pooed' that idea because he was an idiot.) At the time, I think she stood down because her daughter had been making visibile progress.(..but I wonder if she should push for that now...in case she must return to hospital.)
Anyway - after several days in hospital, the daughter was sent home - but really hasn't bounced back to pre-meningitis status. She's been experieincing many headaches & lots of exhaustion.
Tonight, Dawn informs me that her daughter feels worse than her new normal, and her fever as spiked to 103. Clearly I think they are concerned at the implication - but the desire to run back to the duck hotel is not overwhelming.
My question for you smart Lymenet folks is: Could someone "get over" meningitis, only to turn around & get it again a few weeks later? I mean - is that possible, or even probable?
What I found out through the Dept. of Health is that meningitis is not like a disease in & of itself - that some people may be more readily predisposed to it. I was told it was more like a symptom - like fever. (HUH?)
The Dept. of Health gal told me that a whole family could come down with a viral infection, or bacterial infection of some kind - like strep throat - yet one of those people could be more at risk to have it turn into meningitis.
I know I've heard that meningitis can be very contagious - but after talking to Health Dept. lady, Im wondering if just the bacterial or viral agents are contagious, and not necessarily the meningitis (which is swelling of the meninges) itself.
I'd like many of you to chime in on this; and I thank you in advance for keeping Dawn's daughter in your prayers.
Hugs & Kisses
[ 07. March 2007, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: DR. Wiseass ]
-------------------- DR. Wiseass NOT a real doc - just a real wise Posts: 792 | From USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
around 2 yrs. one of our members, VICTORIA given name; can NOT THINK OF HER NICKNAME HERE, from Iowa, had meningitis at least 2-3 times!
once happening when she went to dr. c in missouri on their 1st trip i believe where they were taking their 7 yr. old for 1ST LYME TREATMENT.
to you longtimers on here, i'm sure you remember her name.....
SURPRISE....i thought of it, BITING BACK!
go to directory at top under new posts, type in biting back in area for nickname, and it will take you to her profile,
from there see if her HOME email is listed there on profile, or go into her last posts shown, and email her. she has extensive knowledge about this.
that's my best help i can think of at this time!
give dawn/daughter my thoughts are prayers will you donna! they're still in my prayers!! ******************************************
david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662
posted
Menengitis is a symptom that decribes a process, it is not the diease its self. Menegitis looks like gooey pussy stuff on the brain and there are lots of causes, some even are "aseptic" with no observable cause.
The above being said, did she stop the antibiotics or was the re-occurnace while on the drugs? It is possible to to have a refractory infection that did not get completly eliminated. Also they should have done a CT or MRI. There are many cases of menegitis occuring due to oral problems or sinus perforation. These can cause re-infection after treatment. The CT or MRI might be able to show such defects.
A relapsed virus? likely not but who knowns. I would say no since it apepars the antibiotic was effective. You do not want to screw around thinking what to do with menengitis. It can be rapidly fatal and it will cause brain damage. The later is maybe why she has not recovered as of yet.
In any case bacterial menegitis is VERY serious. I woudl have no hesitation in using an ID, even if it is a lyme related thing (which is far less likely than some of the other bacteria). The problem is an acute one and ID's do know how to treat acute situations. Fast onset and fast cure is what they deal with best, it makes them feel good about themselves....They have a far more difficult time (perhaps even ian mpossible time) in dealing with systematic chronic infections like Lyme and company)
FYI, the classical signs are pain on bending the neck forward, severe headache, high fever, and in cases of accompanying brain swelling vomiting.
Bottom line is I wouldn't screw around with the lyme/no lyme debate when in this situation. Also to put your mind at ease on this one, if it was Lyme, the Herxhiemer would have occured several days (72 hours) delayed followed by improvment after herx was over if you beleive the published and many prsonal accounts. Since it was all over in a few days then it was most likely some other bacteria at play (by the way, protozoa can cause this also). There are a few highly pathogenic bacteria strains. So bad are these that the health department will track down every single person that has come in contact with a known case to try to limit the spread through quarantine.
Nasty nasty stuff, especially for kids.
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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I am still waiting for the ID clinic to call me back to see if they work Laura into the schedule today. No one called--just left a message twice.
Laura does have an appt with an LLMD on Tues.
In the mean time I want her seen to make sure we are not overlooking something.
2 weeks agao when she was in the hospital they put her on IV rocephin and ampicillin for 72 hours. She did improve while on abx.
After they stopped, she has not bounced back to "normal"...she came home with a 99.4 to a 99.6 low grade temp...but they said it was nothing to be concerned about.
She has maintained the low grade temp all along...and yesterday it spiked to 103.
She is having a headache...and extremely fatigued...almost lethargic. I am having to wake her every few hours to get her to drink fluids and check her mental clarity.
They said she had viral meningitis at the hospital. They put her on abx preventatively just in case it came back viral. Within 12 hours of being on abx she came out of the coma...but it was still another 12 hours before she was really cohearant and knew where she was.
I'll be checking in later to see if anyone else has any more ideas of questions I should be asking the docs.
Thanks, Dawn
Posts: 222 | From USA | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Kim, The ID doc would not prescribe her any abx.
That is why we are waiting to get her into the LLMD on Tues.
I just need to get her a script...even if it is "preventative" or precautionary treatment.
She has never been dx'd with Lyme, but both her father and myself are Lyme positive with co-infections....doc thinks she has the possibility of having it passed via pregnancy...so we are getting to the LLMD as soon as possible.
Dawn
Posts: 222 | From USA | Registered: Apr 2006
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caat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2321
posted
there is some confusion over terms here...
bacterial meningitis can mean 3 things.
1. There is one which is highly contagious- I forget the name of the organism. The "college kid" meningitis. This disease is commonly called bacterial meningitis AS IF it is the only bacterial meningitis. It's not.
2. Bacterial meningitis as commonly described to general practitioners by infectious disease specialists. Basically they give most common symptoms of MOST (NOT ALL) bacterial infections. Lots of puss, high fevers, acute. This type will do you in or damage you very fast. Most general practitioners and the ID docs who cheated on exams will beleive these are symptoms for ALL bacterial meningitis. They are not.
3. OTHER bacterial meningitis. ASEPTIC bacterial meningitis. A swelling or increase of pressure of the meningis (membrane around the brain) and brain fluid. Aseptic is fairly clear fluid- not many white blood cells- no puss. Can be anywhere from a low grade to a high fever. This is common with BOTH viruses AND LYME. And also with syphilis, tuberculosis, Clamydia P. and leptospirosis and some subacute infections etc etc.
Lyme meningitis is very often misdiagnosed as viral meningitis. It won't kill you in 24 hours or even 24 weeks but should be dealt with ASAP.
And yes... lyme meningitis CAN produce brain damage.
At any rate run her back to the hospital!! if her temp is 103 and she is on previous record as having meningitis hopefully they will do something!
She is NOT likely to be contagious. They would have checked THAT first thing...
If they are not following up they may think it's viral without checking other things. If so I hope you or your friend is a good aggressive advocate.
good luck and hope all goes well!
Posts: 1436 | From Humboldt county ca usa | Registered: Mar 2002
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
dawn, laura, and hubby,
thanks for your 2 noes dawn updating us on your daughter's condition! our continued thoughts/prayers are extended to you all for as long as you NEED IT!
praying you can get a script for ABX for her.
when i need medical help, i go to NIH'S MEDICAL LIBRARY, www.medlineplus.org
it's set up this way: by illnesses, prescriptions, medical dictionary, etc.
once i select my specific illness i'm checking into, i click on medical dicitionary from there .... they normally only show the terms dealing with THAT DISEASE which is very helpful and written in user-friendly language. hope this helps you.
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Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Dawn & Family! I am so sad to hear this is still going on!
I am a bit confused as to if the doctors even know if it is viral or bacterial meningitis? Has a spinal tap been done? Antibiotics of course make sense if it is bacterial meningitis. If they gave her them initially and it brought her out of a come, maybe they stopped antibiotics too soon?
I am not a doctor, just curious as to how you treat viral meningitis? Sorry you had to deal with the ducks at the duck motel too. I would think neurology would do a spinal tap to see if its viral or bacterial, yes? There has got to be a way to culture the germ thats in there and find out what it is. I would take her back to the hospital if her fever continues, just to be safe. I know it's awful going to a hospital, but you can't mess around with meningitis. I do know that it does take at least a month to feel "normal" again after any bout with meningitis. A good friend of mine had it (bacterial) and it took her all winter to get well again, stamina wise.
You are all in my prayers! Please let us know any news! Hope to hear good news!
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caat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2321
posted
here's the lyme section from the link that Bea posted. Thought I'd paste it here for anyone searching the posts as it it's pretty far down in the article.
Lyme neuroborreliosis The CSF in patients with Lyme meningitis is characterized by low-grade lymphocytic pleocytosis, low glucose, and elevated protein. Oligoclonal bands reactive to B burgdorferi antigens may be present.
Demonstration of the specific antibody to B burgdorferi aids in the diagnosis. Comparison between the antibody response in the CSF and the serum is a helpful diagnostic test. A CSF-to-serum ratio of greater than 1 suggests intrathecal antibody production and neuroborreliosis.
The culture for B burgdorferi has a low yield.
The recent availability of the CSF Lyme PCR assay offers a rapid, sensitive, and specific method of diagnosis. This assay is gaining popularity as the method of choice for diagnosis of Lyme meningitis. Findings on blood Lyme PCR are usually negative.
Posts: 1436 | From Humboldt county ca usa | Registered: Mar 2002
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
You know there was a show on meningitis recurring 3 times in a young lady on Mystery ER a couple of weeks ago.
The doctors were completely baffled. This young lady was placed into a drug induced coma to fight the infection 3 different times.
They finally discovered that this young lady had had a snow boarding incident in childhood in which she hit a tree or something.
Previous CT's and MRI's had missed a crucial piece of the puzzle, but newer, better technology and imaging allowed the MD's to see
a miniscule hole/damage inside her septum/nasal cavity.
As this young lady would get a sinus infection, the bacteria would have a very short distance to go to reach the brain.
They fixed the miniscule hole and miraculously the recurrent problem with meningitis ended.
Praying that this young lady is doing better and is on the road to recovery.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
Recently our Pastor was struck with bizarre symptoms of confusion, ataxia , etc. and taken to ER. They did test him for Lyme- but I'm sure it was at a local lab.
Did a Spinal tap-said it was meningitis. His two year old had a cold virus, and they deduced that the virus had translated into meningitis in the pastor. He had horrific headaches,too.
I told him if he had ongoing symptoms to still consider Lyme-gave him the name of my LLMD . Unfortunately , like most people I try to enlighten, they chose to believe the info they were getting from the hospital.
When he experienced recurrent horrific headaches they did more spinal taps on him to relieve the pressure. He considers himself fully recovered,never did antibiotics, just the spinal taps and meds for headaches. this was several months ago.
Sadly, I watch him while he's talking in front of the congregation struggle with memory and word retrieval issues.
Perhaps residual effects of the Menningitis, but I'm skeptical.
Dawn and her family are in my prayers. Carol
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