MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
I gotta tell y'all there's a great 'light at the end of the tunnel' for us all who are getting treatment- after reading hardynaka's posts about how sick she was a year ago, from which she near-fully recovered. It may take different people a very different amount of time, but there's so much to look forward to as long as you can keep on a treatment.
I took antibiotics for 6 months, got off them due to side effects, felt great briefly but then relapsed horribly after a month. I had a CD-57 of 23 at that point.
I then switched to Buhner's core protocol herbs (and more herbs/detox- but no antibiotics). This means I effectively started the Buhner protocol about 2 months ago (I'd actually taken the herbs briefly during my antibiotic experience too, but stopped). I've been seeing improvements of all kinds, starting almost immediately- same feeling as my antibiotics but without any side effects.
I'm finally back to feeling 100% healthy- no cognitive issues, no memory issues, I"m waking up after 8 hours of sleep instead of needing 13 hours of sleep, I"m able to deal with a LOT of stress at work, I'm able to exercise again, my various pains are gone, and life totally rocks.
I've been revisiting old places where I"d spent time when I first got sick 7 years ago, and it's blowing my mind that I was down for so long and now 'poof' - all the problems are gone as long as I keep treating, and will probably go away completely eventually. The only side effect is needing to remember to take pills for the next few months or whatever it'll be.
That's what is ahead for the rest of you guys, it will probably take longer than my two months (I wasn't as sick as many of you in the first place, and antibiotics did help a lot till the side effects got to be too much for me), but it's a fantastic state to aspire to.
posted
Congratulations Maria! That is really wonderful news. Are you on the full protocol? Did you ramp up slowly? Can you let us know exactly what you take - daily dose etc?
I have experienced a huge improvement also. I am on a muscle-tested herbal formula that has made a major difference (no more monthly crashes or headaches), and I just started supplementing with Vit d, which has addressed my fast heart rate and a few other symptoms that were still driving me mad.
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
I'm on core protocol, eleuthero, teasel, red root, and occasionally boneset if I feel any bartonella-like pain (which went away after a few weeks). I occasionally add GSE though I'm not religious about this. I recently added stephania and got an eye sort of herx similar to my old Lyme symtoms (soreness) so I'll be doing that for a while. I recently started taking sarsaparilla in small tea doses. Eleuthero had an absolutely amazing effect when I first started on Buhner's suggested high dosages.
I'm also on detox stuff: chlorella, bentonite clay, Solaray Detox formula which contains seaweeds and pectin. Occasionally Welchol. I take all of those separate from the Buhner herbs because some of the toxin binders may bind some medications.
I'm also on several things for stomach ulcer (solaray Stomach formula (mastic gum/marshmallow/slippery elm) and DGL), occasional garlic juice, occasional yerba mansa tea for h. pylorii-killing as well. I take all of these at the same time as the toxin binders, away from the Lyme herbs.
I'm taking a multivitamin and bromelain/turmeric pills, will go to more turmeric soon as I think it helps me a lot and Buhner suggests larger doses for liver issues.
I"m occasionally taking nettle/red clover tea for vitamin/mineral support.
I"m taking oral nystatin, probiotics, tons of kefir, occasional rejuvelac, and Solaray yeast cleanse or Yeast Defense (can't remember what it's called- it's caprylic acid, GSE, pau d'arco, and more) formula for yeast, and staying off most sugar but not religiously. Garlic's for this too.
My doctor things some of my problem getting rid of the Lyme in the first place has something to do with mercury (it could've been other things but I dont' seem to have them, such as severe coinfections, toxic mold allergy, mycoplasma I think, food allergies, etc). Last month I tried chelating mercury (high readings on a challenge test- I'm a tuna eater, or I was before the test!) and it made me very sick.
The doctor told me to do undenatured whey for liver support for this (I just bought the cheap Source Naturals brand instead of the Immunocal he suggested, might try that later), and prescribed me Vitamin B-12 shots also, which really help in feeling energetic by the way. We're holding off on the DMSA chelation for a while till I feel better with everything else. He told me to avoid ALA (which Buhner tells us to take) because I wasn't excreting the mercury properly during chelation and the ALA might bring it into brain tissue.
I try to eat a lot of raw (vegetables and nuts) food as it works well for me at this time and I believe in diet variety and want the extra fiber, and I take psyllium and various brans for fiber in my food to try to keep elimination processes higher (kind of on the suggestion of my doctor- he told me to do some of this while chelating, it's easy for me to keep it up while not chelating too and it feels good to eat this way, plus I'm one of those Lymies who gained weight so the raw vegetable/lowfat diet gets me enough calories for now). I drink vegetable juice and avoid some carbs, but not religiously. I'm a massive fan of fermented foods and try to eat probiotics as food as well as in pill form.
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
All of this was a lot of work to figure out, but I think I"ve got it narrowed down to just core protocol and eleuthero and chlorella being my main necessary stuff that has the most effect.
Thanks for all the advice I got on this forum, Lyme_Aid_Buhner Yahoogroup, and the Planet Thrive website (as well as my LLMD who doesn't read the forums).
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Maria, This is enormously encouraging ! I am so very happy for you . Thank you for sharing the deatils of your progress . Selma and Jim Bob have had good results also with this protocol.
It is nothing short of astounding that people have gotten these results in a matter of months . Most people seem to be sick as dogs with ABX treatment for two years .
I saw no improvement after a year and a half of ABX ( or very little) . I have been taking the herbs a month and feel really sick . I hope I eventually get to a better place , though it is hard to imagine .
I am so happy to hear that there are folks getting out of the lyme prison without ABX . It is great to hear that alternatives can work for some people , esp since ABX therapy seems to frequently result in relapsing .
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
quote:Originally posted by Annxyz: Maria, This is enormously encouraging ! I am so very happy for you . Thank you for sharing the deatils of your progress . Selma and Jim Bob have had good results also with this protocol.
It is nothing short of astounding that people have gotten these results in a matter of months . Most people seem to be sick as dogs with ABX treatment for two years .
I saw no improvement after a year and a half of ABX ( or very little) .
!
You know, both Selma and I did a lot of protocols to remove toxins (like dead bacteria, or the bacteria's toxic wastes) from our system (as does JimBob, but different stuff). I wonder if that's part of the difference between us and some of the other folks who get better more slowly (I know there's more than just that as a factor, though).
I take several grams (1 gram= 1000 mg) of chlorella daily, and I think at those high dosages I felt the difference in it clearing brainfog and other symtoms. Lower dosages did nothing for it that I could tell. I had to buy powdered chlorella and put it into drinks to get enough of it down as the pills are much smaller dosages. Selma was doing chlorella and various metals detox 'stuff' (I don't recall what) and much more over the year+ that she fought her illness (about 6-7 months in, she starter reporting successes, I think).
JimBob takes red root and smilax (sarsaparilla) which according to Buhner help with symptom relief (like reducing herxes in many people, though obviously not everyone on Lymenet agrees (recent posts about herxing on smilax)).
I got good steady improvement on antibiotics, too, but I was also doing bentonite clay, chlorella, welchol, and some eleuthero at the same time (then later added core protocol herbs for a few months). I attribute some of my painless experience with not herxing to the effect of the binding agents (bentonite, chlorella, Welchol) I was taking.
By the way this was my fourth experience with 'not taking antibiotics long enough' for the healing to stick (when I initally got acute Lyme I didn't get treated long enough and had to keep going back for more 6-week doses every few months. grrrr, all of this could have been prevented had there been proper treatment guidelines in place, since I actually tested ELISA positive...). now that I know about the CD-57 test I assume that I'll be taking herbs till CD-57 goes up to normal to try to ensure not relapsing.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Maria where is a good website to read about Buhner's core protocol herbs and how to use them? I did a search and over 500 sites came up.
Posts: 117 | From . | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
well, you really should buy his book and read it (or give it to family members/caregivers to read for you if you're too sick to)- click on the Amazon link to the left of this page, and the book "Healing Lyme ' should come up as one of the options. The book contains SOO much information and yet is also very concise and fairly short.
posted
thanks Maria. I didn't know he wrote a book. Thanks for the link.
Posts: 117 | From . | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
Even if you don't want to take herbs it is a good book to read in order to learn more about how the Lyme bacterium does it's nasty deeds and what can be done about it. He also suggests a preventative approach for those living in endemic areas during tick 'season'- if I remember right it's astragalus (which is safe to take longterm, you can even cook it into a broth and use the broth in food), and the core protocol herbs.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
What is the best herb to remove toxins from the body? And how many per day?
Posts: 310 | From TN | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Jason: Take Maria's advice above and order the healing Lyme Book also.
There are MANY herbs that are GOOD for that and many other things.
Hard to say JUST one. Some work better for others but not for me, or vice versa.
I believe Red Root tincture is THE BEST HERB to use to keep your Lymph system in the pink. It is a great cleanser for the lymph system, which includes the liver, tonsils, lymph nodes, etc..
Milk Thistle is also a good standby for the liver.
Sarsaparilla is great for cleansing the blood. But it is good for many other things also, as you will find out when you read the book. Get it at Amazon.com to the left of this, and I believe it is less than $14. At least it was a year ago.
posted
Yeah, I already have the book. I'm in the middle. I figured you guys could point me to one or two antioxidants. As, I would be wanting to get ride of any toxins that may be floating around in me, which would include die-off.
I know there are alot of herbs mentioned in there, and I didn't want to be taking a bunch of them.
Would Red Root tincture be considered an antioxidant? And what is the best company to get this from?
From what I understand, an antioxidant binds to toxins in the body, which keeps the toxins from causing problems. And after it binds, it is expelled from the body.
Posts: 310 | From TN | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
Jason -- consider chlorella for binding toxins. Here is a recent topic called "The Benefits of Chlorella." Very informative.
posted
ordered the book from amazon, can't wait to read!
thanks a lot!!
Posts: 196 | From atlanta/norcross, georgia | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
Maria -- I have been reading with great interest the many topics regarding Buhner's protocol. Though I am pleased that I am 'holding down the fort' so to speak, with my own remedies, it is comforting to know that people are doing well with this herbal protocol in case I reach an impasse. The more I read from you guys, the more sense it makes.
I like the fact that you are eating fermented foods. I really like the sauerkraut by Rejuvenative Foods (I think that is the name). For some reason, it feels like there is a lot of energy and life in it. I wish I could get it unsalted, though, because I have heard that is best. The foods we eat are so important with this illness, too. You are still taking rejuvelac? That is a bit of a process to make.
Thank you for posting and best wishes on continued recovery!
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
Can you do some of the protocol at the same time as abx, or do you have to go off abx completely?
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Maria, at some point I hope you will consider posting your story over in the "Success Stories" thread in the General Forum.
So glad to hear of another person who is benefitting from the Buhner protocol!
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
YES, you can take the Buhner herbs at the same time as antibiotics, and he claims that some of them make antibiotics work better (There's a few studies on this, I haven't read them to see how well they were researched).
I'll put this in Success Stories when it's been a bit longer, I think.
Jason,
Chlorella is probably what you're interested in.
Antioxidants help with oxidative damage specifically- which is good for us, but not exactly the same as binding toxins from the Lyme
Red root isn't an antioxidant or a toxin binder- it is an herb that helps your lymph system handle dead bacteria and other debris. By the way in my case it made my lymph nodes swell up temporarily.
In my limited understanding of this stuff, the chlorella (I needed large doses) really helps bind toxins, some seaweeds and some pectin products do the same thing which I think the Solaray Detox formula does, as does liquid bentonite clay which you can get at health food stores.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Evertime I try chlorella ( which has impressive properties ) I feel deathly ill with two little tablets . I wish I could take it . I do not understand why it makes me sooo sick.
posted
someone in Texas is saying a prayer for mags tonight. I hope you get better soon. Let us know about the tree protocols that your doc suggested .
It is interesting that LLMD's are using some of Buhner's ideas .
I have good news for you. Rejuvenative Foods does make a sauerkraut with dill and lemon juice instead of salt. It is really tasty (for me anyway). If I want it from my local Whole Foods, I have to special order it. But they will do that.
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
posted
Wow, what a good thread to read. I'm so glad to read of a success story.
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
Ann -- I copied a link to a recent discussion on chlorella earlier in this thread ("Benefits of Chlorella"). You might find the information you need there. Sweet Pea had some thoughts on this that were interesting (and you will see that you are not the only one who has had difficulty).
Ruth -- Thanks so much for that information! One store here used to carry the unsalted kind, but it may not have sold well so they dropped it. I never knew that I could just order it. The unsalted version is more potent, I think.
Maria -- The vegetables that make up Kimchee look really good, also. But when I tried the store bought kind it was so spicy! You must have high threshold for spicy food. Also, I don't think I want to attempt rejuvelac... I think you have to be very careful how you make it and taste is a determinate factor. Think it is supposed to have a distinctive taste (not necessarily bad) and if you don't get that, it has to be thrown out. After all that work!
What would we do without the internet?
Claire Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
MariaA,
I am VERY happy for you that you have found a treatment that looks to be very effective!
We now "pasteurize" orange juice using Co2 instead of heating it.
We can knock off pathogens in water and in air using UV light.
The list goes on.
The point is:
THERE IS MORE THAN ONE TREATMENT THAT CAN ERRADICATE PATHOGENS.
It is finding the safest path (one that does not lead to other problems) which is important.
The nutrients Mother Nature provides for us in herbs/plants are really vital to helping us to heal.
This is not "new".
Here is a bit of history trivia:
Montpellier was founded in the 8th century and has one of France's largest and Europe's oldest universities. One-fourth of the population is under 25, so it is a very vibrant city.
It is most famous for its medical school where:
Nostradamus graduated from the medical school at the University of Montpellier and began a private practice where he succeeded at treating bubonic plague victims and the surrounding areas.
On the school grounds there is the famous Jardin des Plantes de Montpellier.
This herb garden was created in 1593 under Henry IV to help students in medicine.
;-)
I, too, have ordered the book. Not because I have lyme ( I don't), but because I want to learn.
Thank you for sharing this information!
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Maria:
In re-reading your original post, I need to tell you, that you MAY or MAYNOT have some relapses. However, IF you do, don't give up.
THere will be better days than others for MOST of us.
I have had some days that got scarey, as I thought it was all coming back. But it could be herxes, though, not sure. But I didn't quit. I still keep on.
Today, I have cut out one more pill of each of most of the herbs I have been taking. To see IF I am having some symptoms because I don't need them anymore, OR if I need MORE of the herbs.
I should know in a few days.
I am also going to start taking some of the herbs in a different form to evaluate what effects if any they have on me.
I think this is all trial and error for each of us as individuals.
Hopefully you really are cured and don't slip back. But if you do, don't give up.
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
Thank you everyone.
Buhner's written Selma recently about her getting better- she was asking aobut developing an allergy to knotweed (which she has always had trouble taking) and he speculated that part of the reason is that she just doesnt' need it anymore (and he offers an alternative, stephania root).
At the end of his post is his usual advice to those who are getting better/have gotten better (it's in the book too)- he keeps necessary herbs on hand and takes them when he's feeling sick after his fight with his own chronic illnesses (not Lyme). Here and in his books he also suggests eleuthero for this- in the book I think he suggests the Russian dosages (what I'm taking) of strong tincture for the days when he (or we) feels the symptoms returning.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
There's also a fantastic book called Wild Fermentations (it's by a friend of mine who lives in a gay pagan commune in Tennessee and tells a lot of various funny stories about commune life to enliven the cookbook, so if you're very Christian, or easily offended by the existence of gays, you might just have to ignore the stories and focus on the recipes- I think you'll find the recipes worth it anyway): http://www.wildfermentation.com/ is Sandor's website The book info itself is here: http://www.wildfermentation.com/books_wildfermentation.php
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
quote:Originally posted by mag: maria,
saw my llmd this week . he gave me three protocols to choose from buhner was one of them
i think i was doing well until last week bartonells sneaked up on me
mags
Mags,
I hope you feel better soon. Buhner's bartonella treatment info isn't as detailed as the Lyme info in the book, but it consists of the same herbs as used for Lyme (andrographis, knotweed, and cats' claw) plus boneset tea (tea, not tincture/capsules) and red root tincture. I had a mild case of bartonella symtoms and they resolved after a few weeks of this. The tea made the pain go away temporarily every time I took it. It made everything bearable when that flare-up was going on. Buhner said in Planet Thrive column that it's OK to take boneset long-term. Let us know if you take this stuff, I'd love to compare notes.
Maria
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
A couple of people asked what dosage I'm on- Im still on Month 2 of the top dosages, four pills of each of the core protocol herbs and four times a day of those. That's a lot of pills to take. I'm still ramping up the stephania root that I recently added. I"m working my way up to 10 drops teasel two or three times a day (my LLMD's recommendation, some people take MUCH less), take the Russian high-dosage eleuthero using Herb Pharm brand eleuthero (I took the break from it as Buhner recommends and don't have side effects (sleeplessness) that he said could happen, and take a dropperful of red root tincture (also Herb Pharm) three times a day.
Also regarding it only being the second or third month of protocol, remember that I took 6 months of antibiotics (with Buhner herbs part of that time) so it's not like I"m coming to the herb-only protocol with a full germ load either.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
Maybe I just didn't read carefully enough, but did you say what form of the stephania root you are using?
How are are you doing now?
I still haven't started the Boneset... I want to see if I can clear the bladder irritation symptoms first. But when I do, I'll let you know how it goes.
Grace to you and to those you love.
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
I'm taking the powdered form (encapsulating it myself). I was really careful on ramping up with it- I started it long after starting the other herbs and didn't want to herx when I was already doing pretty well and had arranged my life around the expectation of doing well.
I did notice that my eyes got puffy and red for a week or two when I started taking it (just 1 pill a day at that point, I think) and the redness/soreness was an old Lyme symptom that I hadn't had in a while, so this is one of my few herxes. Maybe that was a coincidence but stephania is supposed to go after eye-related Lyme problems.
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
As to how I"m doing-
I'm strangely turning into a morning person. Gack! I've never been a morning person. I hope this is a good sign of getting healthy and not a sign of some new version of Lyme insomnia. I'm still tired in the afternoons and having trouble adjusting to the new hours- I'm bad at napping during the day and I really seem to need a nap to feel fully functional (but at least I don't need 13 hours of sleep anymore!!!).
I finally decided that some of my remaining concentration problems- I have trouble getting started on work projects, and it feels like a mild motivation issue rather than any kind of brainfog- are not just due to my brain 'being out of shape' from disuse, and that I probably still have some kind of issue that's Lyme related. Of course mercury toxicity has the same symptoms- ADD or concentration issues.
If it doesn't clear up in a month of so I"ll probably try some supplements- Huperzine A and/or gingko and whatever Buhner recommends for neuro issues. Stephania is supposed to cover neurological Lyme issues, so I'm starting to ramp up my stephania dosage today. I'm leaving the mercury alone indefinitely till I have more time to be sick in case chelation goes badly, which won't be till summer.
But none of this is anywhere near the level of disability I've experienced in the past.
These are basically the last two symptoms I'm experiencing- -tiredness-as-though-I-need-more-sleep, which resolves with naps but not with coffee -and mild concentration issues that might be Lyme or mercury, or might be because I haven't used my brain that way in a couple of years (sit-down projects involving project planning and drawing and learning how to use simple software I don't know- those are the remaining motivation/concentration problems)
I didn't take enough of my herbs for a couple of days recently and felt the beginning of mild achiness coming back, which seemed like the beginning of my past relapses. It went away with more herbs. Again, I'm only on the third month of the Buhner protocol (after 6 months of antibiotics).
I tried to sting myself with stinging nettle (we have it in the garden as it's edible once steamed) recently and had the mildest of arthritic symptoms show up- I suppose that's a herx as Buhner says that nettle toxin is similar to bee sting venom in it's effect on the immune system (I think he does, anyway). I still haven't tried bee stings (another Buhner recommendation for killing Borellia) as I was doing really well without them, but might do that out of curiosity (I have bees also but virtually never get stung 'naturally')
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Thanks for the update! The nettles sound interesting. I love the tea.
I have a relative who is a beekeeper and a couple of years ago they used a bee sting to 'cure' a sore tendon. They said it was harder to sting themselves intentionally and hurt worse because that was all they were thinking about when they did it. (As opposed to having it happen while working with the bees.) It did speed up the healing for them.
There is a homeopathic (Apis) that has been written about. Maybe in Buhner's book.
As for the 'getting it together mentally' issues, there was a thread about non-medical ways to cope with diminished 'executive function.' I am struggling with it too. I spend hours here on the forum ... and don't manage to clear my desk of simple projects. I may need to go on a 'computer fast' for a day or two!
Here's to improvement!
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
yes, the boneset tea had really helped me although i just started taking it (3 days) -- I am able to sleep better -- it seems to be a deeper sleep and the severe muscle aches are lessened.
some sources state that you should only take it for two weeks because of the liver toxicity risk
may it will work to pulse it ?
I am still a bit shakey and really fatigued since I had my wrestling fight with Bart- But so much better --- Thank God for all of you and the doc who care about helping us
mags
Posts: 259 | From California | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
I asked Buhner about the liver issues with boneset- he actually recommends it in his Hepatitis C and Liver book for long-term use. He said it's safe to use.
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
Boneset tea really got me through the tough times this winter. I took it (with red root) as directed in Buhner's book, for about 4 weeks, and then my symptoms subsided enough that I only take it if I have aches from some kind of backslide now.
It's an analgesic among other things.
Ruth Ruth, Buhner has an article on apis (bee sting venom) use in his website, gaianstudies.org (see 'lyme updates' section I think)
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Maria, as for problems of lack of initiative...
It takes time, girl. Don't be so anxious. Be very patient. Anxiety does not cope well with your immune function.
I started feeling way better about June 2006. More or less the way you're feeling now, with loads of herbs but very functional. I was WAY better than I had been, no more babesia etc.
I was already active again in doing many things that I had been unable to do before then. I could even cycle with some regularity. I had only occasional naps. Tiredness came basically with metal detox supps.
But I still lacked initiative. My doctor measures energy levels (don't ask me how). He can measure it with a ruler! He said by then, my energy level was still low (I think about 5 fingers: 7 cm). During my worst days, he couldn't measure, it was zero.
By November- December 06, afternoon naps were long gone, I was feeling so energetic, almost like not being sick anymore. I was more energetic than most people around me, that are not sick.
But still I had not much initiative, even though I was doing almost everything like any normal healthy person, including drinking moderately, sleeping late hours, back to 6-7 hours of sleep every day, etc. Doctor measured my energy again: he said, 18cm, if I remember right. Normal people should have 70 cm!!!
Only in February 2007, I felt I NEEDED TO DO STUFF, organize myself, look for a job, I am doing loads of things with self-initiative WITHOUT forcing myself to do. I can't stop it!
I don't push myself like before (during worst lyme days). Like people in the thread Ruth suggested. During lyme, if I didn't push, I did nothing. Nothing was going to be done in a day, weeks, months.
Now there's no effort to start doing new things, projects, things for myself, my daughter, my husband, house, garden, cat, new job, my parents. It's like an open spring source, it's just pouring by itself. It's the natural course of things.
I'll go to this doctor in April. Lets' see how much will he measure... In January, it was already 30 cm.
I don't know if I believe his measures, but what I want to say is that feeling symptom free (or almost) with herbs is rather fast. It was for me. But the energy your body consumed during the worst lyme months, that was EXTREME. It will take time to build that internal energy again, I believe many months, after being symptom free.
That is what I believe Buhner says of eleuthero: that it builds your energy from within. It's like we have 'two' energies. One more on the every day level, linked to the food you eat, what you breathe.
The other, is a deeper level of energy. This takes time to fill in.
I got this physical energy for months already, maybe even almost a year (in June, it'll be a year).
but only in January I stopped treating borrelia (let's say, I started searching for a maintenance protocol).
But I still feel I dont' have all my initiative 'energy' back, not all my intelectual ability back as before, not 100% my concentration powers. I'll keep you informed, when my doctor comes to measure 70 cm or so, if I will feel then totally back to normal. Who knows? Then I will start trusting his energy measure!!
I can only tell that my inner being (mental, intelectual abilities) are still not 100% because I'm back to studying languages that I always loved and I feel more difficulty than I usually had before lyme (before it was a real hobby!, now I need effort).
I also need a bit more time to "digest" a text (I'm working on post-graduation level texts/ books) than before lyme (before, I was reading lots of very complicated stuff a day without any cognitive problem).
So, just wanting to say: go slow, Maria. Give your body the time to adjust, to rebuild itself. I don't think it's a matter of adding more killers, etc. It's a matter of letting the 'spring' pour by itself. Anxiety is a very bad thing for your immune system, even a duck can tell you that.
Be patient and enjoy your symptom-free days! If you keep on treating yourself, your initiative will come back and you won't be able to stop it!
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
i noticed the aches are back also. thanks for the link.
i agree with you all the "initiative level is extremely low for me - it is a fight to do every thing - my old self would go and go and go! i have had a few days in february that were like that can't wait for more
mags
Posts: 259 | From California | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thank you so much for your post Selma. It helps to have a vision for the future.
I know that taking supportive things for my adrenals has restored much of my 'initiative', but my cognitive ability has a definite ebb and flow. It's nice to have a better understanding that my energy reserves are still filling up like a spring fed well that has been dry for a while.
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- This is only my opinion and/or experience with Lyme Disease. I am not a medical professional. Posts: 587 | From usa | Registered: Dec 2000
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
This makes sense. It takes a long time for the body to repair from a serious infection.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
My eye herx symptoms went away and I"m continuing to take stephania along with everything else mentioned above.
a couple of updates:
1. sugar sucks for Lyme. I wish someone had told me that years ago. It's hard to tell if it's candida-related or Lyme itself, but I've always had more trouble with my Lyme symptoms after a sugar binge. Lately my candida has been under control so I'm pretty sure it's Lyme proper that caused problems last week:
I'm a beekeeper, and recently did a harvest (here in the Oakland CA area we have a wintertime bloom of eucalyptus flowers which means that bees collect honey in Febuary!). Inadvertently when you process honey for a day you end up eating a lot of it. I crashed pretty hard for a couple of days after that. I"m back to normal a few days later.
repeat after me: stevia is tasty, I love stevia, sugar is the devil.
2. I'm one of the few people I know who's on the Russian dosages of eleuthero- large doses which have to be taken for a few weeks on, two weeks off.
Buhner writes that one reason for having to give your body a break from the high doses, is that you can get sleeplessness. (smaller doses, such as those listed on the tincture bottles of eleuthero, are OK to take longterm without a break)
The first time I took a break from the high-dose cycle of eleuthero, I didnt' really feel like I had needed a break.
Now it's just coming up on the end of my second 6-week cycle of eleuthero , and I had some nervousness and stress as though I'd been on too much caffeine.
I couldn't figure out where it was coming from as I don't react that way too often. Once I realized it was the 'sleeplessness' he was talking about, I realized I was due for a break from the eleuthero. Nervousness went away.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
In general I think the eleuthero has been immensely helpful, in that I felt the difference (more energy!) when I started taking it in the high doses.
I have also felt a big difference in my ability to handle stress. I have a job where I get very stressed about once a month, or once every six weeks, when I have to travel to do a weekend speaking engagement/training that's the same every single time.
By now I know exactly how I react to those weekend jobs now: -how much coffee I have to drink to get through the weekend, -how much energy I have, -how good my recall of my 'speech' is and how much I do or do not forget words, -how much I am annoyed or amused by my students, -how much they're able to distract me or get me off track in the workshop -how much and what kind of pain I"m in afterwards, -how much I'm pained by the travel process and the airports -and how long it takes me to recover after I get home.
It's an interesting set of metrics by which to judge a stressful experience.
After I started the eleuthero it was amazing how much easier the weekend jobs were. Part of that is me feeling better in general due to the core protocol, but I"ve done about four of these jobs in the past three months and I know that the weekends where I didnt have eleuthero with me were more difficult than the ones where I'd been taking it properly.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Wish I could take it Maria. But it burns my skin way too bad around my stoma. Heard good things about it though. I have almost a full pound of it that just sits here.
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic