posted
Had my very first professional massage yesterday... doc has been telling me for a while now that I need to try it.
It was more like physical therapy, really, with the therapist doing a lot of moving and bending of joints, etc. She asked what condition I had that would cause so many knots, muscle pain, locked joints, etc, and was very intrigued to learn about Lyme. Turns out she worked as a nurse for 9 years before becoming a massage therapist but was, of course, unfamiliar with Lyme details.
Anyway, to get to my point, I am SO SORE today that it feels like I've been beaten and run over. This is how I felt several years back when I was told it was "fibromyalgia". She warned me that I might be "a little sore" because she was "breaking up so many knots that she couldn't even count them all", but I never know what to believe anymore.
Was this just a bad massage, or did it really do some good? Please share your experiences with me!
Posts: 220 | From central TX | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
ByronSBell 2007
Unregistered
posted
I have this problem as well. The knots in your muscles are called "trigger points" you can google it. They are knots in the muscles caused by toxins. They can range from the size of a small pea to what feels like the size of a grape. These are typical with lyme, I have them. Most of mine are in my shoulders, back, and upper arms. The only way to get rid of them is to mash on them really hard or excercise the muscle.
Massages always make me feel worse afterwards and can last days. But, this is a good thing... you have to get rid of them. When you do get another massage, you need to go home and take a hot epsom salt bath for 30 minutes and drink plenty of water. It should help a little.
IP: Logged |
dontlikeliver
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4749
posted
TexasChaos,
I stopped having massage years ago because they would make me hurt so bad AND sick for days afterwards (like a huge relapse).
DLL
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
I just finished my massage (she comes out to my house twice a week). There's a fine line between too hard and not hard enough to get the toxin knots.
My gal can tell the difference between sore muscles (from karate) and the knots. She has to press quite a bit into the Intercostal muscles because that is where my knots are. Some are inbetween my ribs in my back (I didn't even know they went up that far).
If I've done a harder program on my KMT24, I have more knots in the morning.
Tonight I will feel a little soreness but not like what you are describing. You have to ask them to go lighter yet they should also be knowledgeable enough to know how to break up those little pea size knots.
A regular massage won't give you the relief because they won't work out the toxins.
At times they roll and hide and she will have to come at them from a different direction.
My lady presses, has me breath in and out and hold the 3rd breath for a few minutes (just kidding - seconds). She says that gives her "permission" to go deeper. If its too hard, you have to say so.
It helps tremendously! I can't believe I haven't been doing this all along during my therapy. Its so nice not to have a sore neck and upper back pain.
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
For those who have the muscle involvement of fibromyalgia or myofacial pain syndrome, massage can be very difficult unless one goes slowly and gently. Lyme can cause this type of muscle involvement.
I was afraid for years to have massage because of exactly what happened to you. I eventually found someone who was familiar with fibromyalgia patients and she was able to do a massage without causing a lot of residual pain for me. People with these type of muscle issues do not have muscles that heal like normal people. A massage can easily cause a situation where your body needs to do a lot of muscle healing because it does not take much to damage them. For example, my Naturopathic Doctor decided to use childrens needles on me for accupuncture because she felt that my muscles don't heal normally and a smaller needle would be easier for my body to heal.
If indeed your muscle knots are actually trigger points (and I wouldn't be surprised if they were), it is best to have someone who is trained in trigger point therapy work on you unless you learn about them yourself and use a theracane or some other method of massage. Again, going slow rather than doing too many at one time. Drink plenty of water beforehand and plenty afterwards because massage of any kind releases toxins in even normal people.
Trigger points can be released not only by trigger point therapy which normally involves gentle pressure but some M.D.'s use trigger point injections to deactivate trigger points. You can also use a theracane to work on your own trigger points. A theracane is a very helpful tool combined with the book "The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook".
There can be many causes of trigger points including vitamin and mineral imbalances, hormonal problems such as thyroid inadequacy. Hypoglycemia, anemia and high levels of uric acid in the blood. Tension and axiety are problems as well and I'm sure there are many other reasons for them. Most normal people have at least some typically caused by repetitive use or overuse of muscles.
Other factors that may influence your success at getting rid of trigger points are chronic infections, allergies including food allergies and infestations of the intestinal tract.
You can have inactive or active trigger points. I notice that when I work on some trigger points, others in the same area may activate. They can press on muscles and nerves and cause a huge variety of symptoms. Symptoms that one would not connect with muscles such as tooth pain, dyslexia, mood problems, swollen ankles, sinus symptoms and many more. They have a tendency to cause referred pain meaning pain that can be located in another body part away from the trigger point itself. This is because they press on blood vessels and nerves.
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Just want to mention that anyone considering the trigger point injections should research them carefully and not allow the doctor to use steroids since steroids, even used this way, may be a problem. I say this because of Dr. B's mention that we should avoid even local doses of steriods. See page 20. http://www.ilads.org/files/burrascano_0905.pdf
Also, trigger point injections, just like all trigger point therapy, may not last and you may have to have it done again. My sister had the injections and they can be painful. My doctor wanted me to have them but I was already using the theracane and didn't see the advantage with the injections. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I had a massage on Monday of this week at the advice of my dr. I also had many knots and tight spots in my back, especially. I hadn't had a massage in about three years, but all of my massages (all after I contracted lyme) have been painful and some even left me bruised if trigger points were addressed specifically.
About 30 mins after my massage on Monday, I was feeling spasms, had diarrhea and went into a full on herx. I felt bad the rest of the day (took flu meds and drank Yogi Tea's Detox tea and RESTED), but the next morning I was much better.
I've felt some twinges this week in my back, but for all the pains of the massage I feel like it really loosened up a lot of problem areas and definitely helped along my ribs and neck, especially. Mostly though, it got my lymph system moving and got those toxins "unstuck" and out of me!
My doctor actually warned me that massage is a huge detox avenue and that I would probably feel rough after I got one.
I'm scheduled for another next week and am now fully prepared for a herx and pains to hit afterwards, but I have to say I was really shocked at my reaction to this last one. Now I know it's normal and actually a very good thing, as it indicates the toxins are moving up and out of my system!
Too bad massages can't be the luxury they once were in my eyes - now they're going to be just another part of therapy (and maybe a miserable part, at that).
For luxury, try a specified massage - head, facial, foot or hand, or another body treatment like a wrap or manicure/pedicure. Be careful of saunas though - my llmd says only very short duration (10 mins) saunas to begin with b/c they deplete elektrolytes so quickly.
Sarah
Posts: 91 | From East TN | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Massages made me worse for two years. Muscles were just too inflamed, blood flow made it worse. It may also have stirred up toxins -- bad for a body that is riddled with biotoxins.
Now they are therapeutic, once again, but I am careful.
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thank you for your comments, everyone... so this is fairly "normal" for Lymies. I am glad to know that, but surprised. I suppose I had been imagining a "luxury", as Sarah mentioned.
I guess I am indeed having a kind of herx, now that I think about it. Man, Lyme ruins everything for us, doesn't it??
And thanks for the info on trigger points, I will look up more about that!
Posts: 220 | From central TX | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
I've thrown up from the intensity of a massage _on_ the massage table (I now know) due to my nervous system being a wreck. I also now know why acupuncture was so searingly painful.
I haven't gone for a massage for about a year, but now that I'm beginning treatment again, and managing my symptoms with Gabapentin and Celebrex (and supplementing with Mangosteen, etc. etc.), I would like to go back to massage.
I love the harder massage; it took me forever to figure out what I had to do was SLOW DOWN AND STOP. I was always go-go; I ran every day, and if it was hailing out, I would feel even better to have had the discipline to get through that as well.
So...my tendency is to want to "have at it" and detox bath afterward...I should mention I'm pretty much disabled due to seizures / seizure-like events.
So, do you think I'm going to "pay" if I go the hardcore route?
I can't wait to have the priviledge of massage again; I'm so stiff, and yet no one has really been able to touch me; I like to say, "Like some kind of cruel joke..."
Best,
CBL.
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
And I was just thinking, what is the chance of transmission to the masseuse? I remember some discussion years ago about this, but can't remember...I get those "migrating" itchy bumps...sure a casual touch probably is fine, but what about someone who is really "in there" with the pressure?
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521
posted
Just offer another view, I get fairly deep massage as often as I can spare the money. In general, it seems that if it's done every two weeks, I feel generally better.
My therapist has had several Lyme clients and he incorporates element of lymphatic drainage.
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
I've been using massage treatments for 7 yrs and I've learned there are good massagists and bad massagists. A good massagists for someone with a chronic illness will only go lightly on an already sick toxic body.
Even light body work including things like lymph drainage will stir up the areas in the body where toxins are clumped together. Yes, you can have a herx like (healing crisis) reaction afterwards. That's the whole purpose of having body work is to get the toxins moving and help healing.
But working harder on you is not what is needed. I have found a big difference in people that work in some type of medical/alternative treatment type enviroment and going to some massage place that is for pleasure treatments. Major difference really.
Someone mentioned water. Lots of water the next 24 hrs will help total body flush out toxins. I even notice a strong urine and foaming of urine for a couple days after. I know it's bad guys being flushed away.
If someone hasn't worked on many cancer patients, chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia patients they won't ever touch me. I can't wait until the day I have a massage because it will feel sooooo good and not as a form of treatment.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Whenever I got a massage, there was always a "right" amount of pressure -- nothing less or more would work. I would just tell the person how much pressure I could handle. Something like a middle-ish pressure. And I felt better afterwards. This was before I knew I had Lyme.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic