posted
FYI. This was sent out by the executive director of ILADS. I have no other information.
I am interested in protecting Lyme patients and, given the source, I felt it was important to pass the information along.
Before making any decisions in regards to this or any other practitioner, please do your own research. ---------------------------
Please make your members and practitioners aware of probable medical fraud in the Lyme Community
A self entitled "health professional", "health consultant" in NJ is giving medical advice and selling devices, supplements and herbs as well as charging a "donation" of $75 for medical advice.
After a seminar of less hours than a single college class, she paid for the permission to use "CNHP" after her name. She also claims to be "ND Candidate" and/or "almost ND" yet cannot/will not provide the schools she attended. The AANP has been duly notified and has NO record of her.
She uses these false assumptions of credentials to post on Lyme websites and advertize her expertise and wares. Lately she entitled herself a specialist of "neurodegenerative diseases". She has encouraged many to ignore their own physician's advice and to adopt hers, of course this includes purchasing her wares. She has misinterpreted diagnoses, treatments, etc ( which is no surprise given her probable lack of education)
When asked for her credentials she gives you a name of an attorney-whose office has told me he does not know her.
The NJ Attorney General Office has opened a case and I await hearing from Monmouth County Authorities.
this person's name is
Sue Massie DBA Nature's Garden of Health Fair Haven NJ
[ 24. April 2007, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: TexasChaos ]
Posts: 220 | From central TX | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
All, Please leave this person alone. Many people she counsels cannot afford the likes of Dr K and Dr C. And many times Dr C nd Dr K have not been right either. Please stop this witch hunt and focus on healing !
Posts: 116 | From Plano, Texas, USA | Registered: May 2004
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
Geez..
For the record, one of the worst experiences I had was with a so-called LLMD "god".
Never, ever again.....
There are good and there are bad.........
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Before you decide to "shoot the messenger", please read again the statement in bold above.
I personally have no experience with this person - I am simply relaying information from an extremely reliable source. I am tired of watching Lymies get screwed and my goal is to watch out for my fellow man. I apologize if this offends anyone, but again, I am simply the messenger.
Posts: 220 | From central TX | Registered: Jun 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by randibear: Geez..
For the record, one of the worst experiences I had was with a so-called LLMD "god".
Never, ever again.....
There are good and there are bad.........
LLMD "god".
Shes neither God Or a lyme literate medical doctor is she?
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
I know Sue. She is a sincere individual who tends to believe that everything is Lyme and can be treated through Rife-y type sellable/buyable stuff. She is speaking at the LIA conference. I ALMOST agree with her in believing everythign is Lyme- but not QUITE as much*)!!!
She was paralyzed briefly from the neck down from Lyme for a couple of days or something but not ALS type paralysis and used to get ALSers mad at her because she would talk as if she was paralyzed from ALS which she was not. I don't think she is a science minded individual. But she hung in there with the ALS/Lyme group and watched people die and was supportive with lots of ALSers who had no one else to talk to until the end- and she was honest about the difference in her paralysis when called on it- she was not deliberately being dishonest in any way- just don't think she saw the difference between one kind of paralyisis and another-
She WANTED to go to school very badly to treat Lyme and it sounds like she has gotten herself in trouble being over-enthusiastic.
She is, like MAB was, someone who wanted to help- but has perhaps gone about it the wrong way.
She is very nice and has 6 kids and is/was in terrific shape when I met her- we swam in Lovette Motts pool together during a Lyme thing! I am very sorry to hear this- very!!!
Best wishes, Sarah
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
there is a woman in colleyville, texas, who runs a health food store.
don't know much about her but she treats lyme with all kinds of gadgets, supplements, etc.
she works with a doctor who sends his patients to her.
waaaayyyy too expensve for me...........
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Greatcod
Unregistered
posted
What does the "practice of medicine" in New Jersey consist of, exactly? Can anyone practice surgery if they have good intentions and a steady hand? The authorities have to set bounderies somewhere.
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posted
I find some of these reactions rather humorous.
This does not make her a bad person, and I'm sure she has good intentions. However, it is situations like this that makes it so difficult for our real LLMD's to obtain credibility from outsiders.
Just because I can rewire a light fixture in my bathroom does not mean that I can or should sell myself as an electrical engineer. Nor would any self-respecting homeowner want me to. How is this situation any different? It is FRAUD. Plain and simple, regardless of how wonderful a human being she may be.
Posts: 220 | From central TX | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I must say, I'm really surprised to see this. I remember Sue Massie as a kind and caring patient/activist from the old days at Donna Herrell R.N.'s old About.com Lyme Disease and Emerging Illness Forum.
She and her husband had been very sick. I believe they had a lot of traditional treatment that helped some, but eventually they pursued other alternative answers that allowed them to enjoy "recovery". I'm not sure how they defined "recovery" since we all went our separate ways after about.com buckled under political pressure from the IDSA doctors and quit hosting the Lyme site.
When I knew Sue, she was someone who had a real interest in sharing her knowledge and helping other patients. I am grateful she shared her experiences with me. Although, I felt it was in bad taste when she began spamming boards and telling people they could consult with her. I feel that way about all Lyme patients who sell information and services for profit.
In my own quest to regain health, I have vowed never to try to make a business out of helping other patients, but I have known some Lyme patients through the years who have. Most of them believe they really are helping others. Having known Sue, I'm sure she is one of those who is doing this to help the patients she feels would not otherwise find help. Nevertheless, I find this whole thing very sad.
As I recall, some of her information was good, but I don't know how that might have changed.
Posts: 487 | From USA | Registered: Feb 2002
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SForsgren
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posted
I don't think Sue sells herself as a doctor. Personally, I think the work she does is important. I find her to be very knowledgeable.
I guarantee that there are doctors out there that know much less about Lyme than she does. So, you would rather go to them and get poor care just because they have an "MD" after their name?
What is it that Sue has supposedly done that anyone takes issue with? Help a few hundred people. Shame on her!
If the power in my house was out, I would thank the person that got it working again - not ask them if they had an engineering degree...
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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posted
Lonestartick,
Do you feel the same way about the doctors that treat Lyme patients? If they are getting money for their services, are they now "bad" people? It makes no sense to me. Why should a Lyme person be excluded from helping the very group of people that they are a part of - even if that means that they are compensated in some way for their time?
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Scott - yes I couldn't agree with your more, your last 2 replies. It's very important to be working with a Lyme Literate person, whether it be a MD, ND, DO, CNHP, etc. I see nothing wrong with Sue Massie, There are people here on a witch hunt!! If I were her and found this posting on Lymenet - go after you all for libel and slander !
Posts: 116 | From Plano, Texas, USA | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by SForsgren: Lonestartick,
Do you feel the same way about the doctors that treat Lyme patients? If they are getting money for their services, are they now "bad" people? It makes no sense to me. Why should a Lyme person be excluded from helping the very group of people that they are a part of - even if that means that they are compensated in some way for their time?
Absolutely correct!!!
Tree....randi is NOT talking about Sue. She said "LLMD".
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I can't believe the posts I'm reading in this topic... Does it mean NOTHING to people that this woman has been fraudulently presenting herself? That she has NO legitimate degree or training to her name? And that patients have spent hundreds probably thousands buying her stuff? Patients like us who are hurting, trying to get well, and draining bank accounts to do it!
Do you realize how bad this looks to outsiders, completely uneducated about Lyme? it ****es me off that this woman has done that, and it gives the whole cause a bad name. It's no wonder this disease gets a bad rep, and sarcastic articles like the Forbes article come out.
I don't care how nice someone is... If they are misrepresenting themselves and making a buck off desparate patients, they should be pursued legally.
Posts: 364 | From California | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
This post has reeally gone off on a tangent but yeah, people should not be making claims that they cannot back up without proof of knowledge and experience regarding whatever they are claiming to treat. MDs, NDs, etc etc are guilty of this too in their quest to help. Frankly, the AMA and FDA have also been guilty of this, but with government approval but thats another thing altogether .
-------------------- Fortune favors the brave. ~Publius Terence Posts: 6 | From Oregon | Registered: Apr 2007
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Sounds to me that the lyme she had has progressed into her decision making ability?I remember Sue this is a shame.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
I agree she should not present herself as whatever but it doesn't sound like she did- it sounds like she presented herself as a CNHP which is what it is, an easy credential to get compared to an MD.
I know her very well and like lonestartick says, from those old Donna Herrell ABout.com days, and I find it very sad to hear this. I don't know the facts and neither do any of us that I can see. It is unsubstantiated rumor at this point!!
I don't agree with selling things or charging for time.
Anneke, I think it looks terrible to outsiders.
I think you are right- she or anyone should be prosecuted if they were /are doing medical fraud. But nothing conrete has been written here for me to gauge the true facts of the situation. I was just adding what I know-
there ARE those sharks who have no heart who go after people- there are also those who are "True Believers" who MAY or may NOt end up doing the same thing- I was putting in my 2 cents that Sue if anything at all is the latter- she genuinely loves helping people-
It does make a difference to me that she is not a cold-hearted cash monster out to make a buck from desperate people- because that is the way the posting sounds-
she is someone who IF she did something fraudulent I am sure was not even aware she was doing so- she is not an MD-
if she DID do something fraudulent I AGREE she should be prosecuted but so far there are allegations and those could be made about anyone-
I checked the ILADs site and there is no posting about her there so nothing official has been released from them regarding this-
Anneke, if I saw that posting about you I would write that I know YOU from here a little and that you always seem very reasonable and that I would find allegations concerning YOU surprising!! So far this is rumor-
Best wishes to all, Sarah
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
If there was some "fraud", I would reconsider my opinion. However, I have NOT seen that. She is a CNHP or whatever she has after her name as far as I know. So someone needs to clearly define the "fraud" part. I am not seeing it and at present, do not believe that there is anything to suggest it.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I read what you all had to say, and then googled her name.
She looks like a recovering Lymie who has a CNHP (whatever that is) and is selling stuff she thinks will help.
Right now, the ILADS statement is a set of allegations that (I guess) are going to be investigated by Monmouth County Health Dept. We will have to wait and see what they come up with.
I wonder which agency regulates a person with this credential.
Giving "false assumptions of her credentials", and saying she is an expert on neurodegenerative diseases, would constitute fraud, in my understanding, if it is proven that this is what she has done.
Some of the other allegations seem to be in the area of practicing beyond your "area(s) of competence". Areas of competence usually have specific training requirements. For example, as a clinical psychologist, I personally cannot treat sex offenders, because I have not been trained specifically in their dynamics and issues and proper therapeutic techniques. I could lose my license and/or get sued for malpractice.
ILADS is either being super careful, policing the field, because of the political attitude against LLMDs, and I can't blame them. Or they have heard some bad stories from patients who came to them after a bad experience with Sue.
If she is doing good work and wants to keep going, she needs to have written disclaimers, not make promises, not diagnose, and just represent herself as a person who has Lyme, has helped herself and others, and might be able to help others.
As a member of the larger Lyme community, given the political climate (look at what the medical boards have recently done to J and now maybe to J), I feel Sue is hurting the community.
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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SForsgren
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posted
I personally spoke to the ED of ILADS and this was NOT an official ILADS communication. The public information discussed here was never released by ILADS and any comments in the initial post are not official positions of ILADS in any way.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
No, Scott, this is not an "official" posting from ILADS... BUT it was indeed sent out by the ILADS ED to ILADS members as a "heads-up". I have spoken directly with my LLMD regarding this. So please contact your own LLMDs if you have further questions on this matter.
People get very emotional about this woman. There's no doubt that she's helped people and I think her heart's in the right place. However, you shouldn't go around representing yourself as something you're not and she's been doing that for years. There are many other people who specialize in helping Lyme patients but they are extremely clear up front that they are NOT medical professionals! She, on the other hand, goes out of her way to make people think that she is. That's where her flaw lies. But people who she has helped get very angry at her being accused. I can see their point, however it is ILLEGAL to represent yourself as a medical professional when you are not.
And of course you would thank the person who got the electricity back on in your home (referring to previous posting)... until your home burns down because they didn't ground the wires correctly due to their lack of expertise and training.
Can we END this silly discussion now, and everyone accept this FYI as they personally see fit?
Posts: 220 | From central TX | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TexasChaos: Can we END this silly discussion now, and everyone accept this FYI as they personally see fit?
Good idea!!!
I made my other reply before seeing your suggestion. I agree.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Greatcod
Unregistered
posted
The underlying issue here is the licensing and regulation of medical practioners and medical treatments. Maybe it's not a good idea, maybe medical care ought to be an open market, and let the buyer beware. Put up a sign, or a website, and go into the business of medicine. I personally am starting the Online University of Lyme Litteracy...for a mere $99, and after intense study of the reading materials, I will grant my students a Advanced Degree in Lyme Litteracy. For an additional fee of $99, I will issue a Certificate of Compassionate Care. Look for the website soon. No personal checks.
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
People need to identify their creditials like Lymetoo does as staying at the Holiday Inn once. Everytime I see their commercial, I chuckle because of Tutu.
After all we are LLNMP.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
You know, I'm not even sure I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express!! Maybe I have, but my lyme brain won't let me remember!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Someone can be sincere and also misguided, someone can care about others and also love the $ they're earning, someone can rationalize that they are almost a CNHP or ND and just a few courses away so why not say they are anyway...
The reason there are licenses is to regulate treatment. So if you say you have a degree you don't, then, it's fraud.
Supplement companies that sell only to doctors and licensed professionals sold to her at their wholesale costs and she probably jacked up the price, earning a profit along the way.
She picked up a # of patients from LymeStrategies list...
If she was briefly 'paralyzed'--well heck, my leg wouldn't move for five minutes one morning a few months into lyme, I could say I had leg paralysis, but if you don't explain that it was brief, it sounds much more dire than it is, and that's not fair. So she gives the wrong impression by leaving out the details.
But patient beware too. I was stupid to ever try salt/c when its so obviously patently harmful, and I just saw another new study about reducing salt and reducing mortality as a result--and it's stupid to take the advice of somoene on the phone and not even check their 'online' degrees that they have almost completed.
I wish her well as I do feel she's sincere nonetheless she lied, misled etc, so, that's not kosher.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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SForsgren
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posted
You don't have to be a "doctor" to get supplements at wholesale prices. Many companies will sell to pracitioners that are nutritionists, etc.
To my knowledge, Sue never mis-stated her credentials - though I would be open to hearing otherwise. I don't understand why we assume she did something bad rather than appreciating the help she has been to people.
Can anyone explain what she "lied" about? I just haven't seen it.... I could be wrong. I'd just rather not assume "fraud" without seeing evidence of that. I have talked to many people that have been very much helped by Sue and her work.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Greatcod
Unregistered
posted
No, the reality is that I can't spell (or type), never could, and probably never will. I think it may have something to do with Miss Clark, the terror of my second grade life.
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posted
I just wanted to comment. Sue is going to be speaking at our conference on Lyme and Autism. She has never misrepresented her experience/titles to me. From day one she told me about her education. She told me that she had a few more classes to getting her Naturopath.
Just because the school's may not me the best, doesn't mean she's misrepresenting anything.
I asked her to speak because she's helped so many people. Most of us just don't have the knowledge to get the right supplements, or know the tips to help our bodies detox. This was kind of the "tips and techniques" that your doctor usually doesn't tell you that she can share with the group based on her experience. For example...coffee enemas, caster oil packs, etc. I don't know how to do those things, but many people benefit from them.
In regards to her making money off people, from what I understand she barely breaks even. I also know that she works with the patient's doctors as well.
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Thanks Tami. I am glad to see that your thought process was rationale and that Sue will be speaking at your event.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
I'm sorry, but I don't Understand. Did someone get sick from her advice, file a complaint, etc?
Is she under investigation for doing something wrong?
I can think of several people who treat lyme from a health food store...nothing happens to them....
I'm confused.........
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Scott, certain companies, such as ARG or Standard Process, give wholesale prices to practitioners only.
To the other questioner, yes someone reported her and apparently its on file at the New Jersey Attorney General. I don't know more than that.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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SForsgren
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posted
It is a sad world we live in to see someone like Sue being charged with anything.
All of our doctors get charged with this and that by patients that are at times not justified in doing so.
At the end of the day, this pushes away the people that can actually help us and we will soon be left with no one except ourselves to figure out how to get well.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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oxygenbabe
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posted
I disagree, Scott. People need to get valid licenses at valid credited institutions in order to treat people. Online schools are very questionable. There are 3 good naturopathic colleges in the US, and the best, far and away, is Bastyr. They have a very tough good curriculum. The doctors who come out of there are very well trained.
There's a reason for accreditation and reputation.
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but yeah, people should not be making claims that they cannot back up without proof of knowledge and experience regarding whatever they are claiming to treat. MDs, NDs, etc etc are guilty of this too in their quest to help. Frankly, the AMA and FDA have also been guilty of this, but with government approval ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
but thats another thing altogether ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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