posted
Anybody know what Grade 2, Stage 2 means as it relates to a liver (my husband's)? We don't see either of our docs for 2 weeks, and I can't find it in any medical literature. My husband has Lyme, but also has Hepatitis C, Type 1 - the kind that requires 48 weeks of treatment. The nurse slipped and told me about the Grade 2, Stage 2 terminology used in the biopsy report. I hope someone knows - I hate to wait.
Posts: 108 | From Florida | Registered: Sep 2005
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
Found a good article at the following site...
Why are they not trying good old Milk Thistle? Go to above link.
It IS used in Germany, in ERs to treat TOXIC mushroom poisoning.
Toxins...too many toxins from pathogens too.
Damage the liver first then the kidneys.
The system is too acidic. Toxins are acidic.
There is a condition called toxic hepatitis. It can be caused by too many abx. - waaaay too many for the body to handle.
The liver has tremendous recouperative ability.
The kidneys do not.
The liver is supposed to "detox". It isn't functioning properly from the get-go in lyme.
Glycine is liver protective.
This liver damage is not apparent on regular testing (enzyme levels), but just RECENTLY...we can SEE fat stored around the liver (and vital organs) which is NOT healthy. Even skinny people can be "fat" on the INSIDE.
If Bb inhabits the endothelial cells that line the blood vessels that deliver nutrients TO the liver...then what?
Is the liver itself not getting enough nutrients....is it too busy making glucose from non carbon sources? Is all this oxidative stress...damaging the liver? What is missing...glutathione which comes FROM...
"The amino acids n-acetyl *cysteine*, *glycine*, and glutamic acid are the primary building blocks of glutathione."
When our MAJOR anti-oxidant is kapoot because the building blocks aren't available, it is logical the next-best kicks in...melatonin is upregulated.
See how this all begins to fit together?
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Thank you so much; I found the article. It says basically what we wish - that everyone doesn't have to have a liver biopsy. And that just because your biopsy is bad doesn't mean your treatment will not be successful. Our LLMD (of all people) is telling us there is no point in treating because the liver is so far gone. Of course, he hasn't seen my husband in a while and will see him again in two weeks. WE think that as long as there is life, there is hope. And the Hep doc says, "Treat".
Believe in miracles? We do. Thanks again.
Posts: 108 | From Florida | Registered: Sep 2005
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
Wait and don't panic. Treatment for Genotype 1 Hep C is not terribly effective. If he is in an early stage I would wait and see what meds come around down the road.
I am Genotype 1B and have mildish changes. A second biopsy 5 years later showed little to no progression. I have chosen not to treat it, for now. If something changes or they come up with a treatment that works... I'll think about it then. The % of pepople clearing the virus as type 1 is fairly low. In the majority of cases it is a slow progressing disease.
Obviously, I'm not a doctor and not meaning to give medical advice only tell you my reasoning. I'd get more than one opinion, especially if that one opinion tells you to treat right away. Watch it and wait if you can. Go to Hep C support groups and ask lots of questions.The worst offenders are ducks, the same ones that want to treat my lyme with steriods are all eager to treat Hep C.
Sorry Paula ~ Was this his first biopsy? Any idea how long he might have the Hep C? I figure I probably have it over 20 years so figure a little bridging fibrosis is not so bad.
Sorry for babbling; I hope something helps some.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Marnie - you must have been writing while I was answering other post. I've been looking for something "tried" in the way of natural medicine. My husband's Hepatitis C is genotype 1, not toxic hepatitis (though I would rather). Type 1 is the 48 week treatment type. The last time our LLMD saw the hubby, his belly was getting really big and hard if he ate the wrong thing; the LLMD said it was fluid in the abdomen. Since then, those episodes have ended. Took the hubby off all meds except blood pressure and put on bland diet with balance of protein, carbs, good oils. We just do not know anything about natural stuff. We have to learn. He's willing to do most anything; but he has an uncle who survived the interferon & other junk treatment. And the husband says he will have the treatment - no matter what! You know, he never even had Hepatitis C either; just went straight to chronic C. I, on the other hand, had Hepatitis 35 years ago, and mine hardly shows up on the blood tests. They are not even able to genotype mine. I keep going every 6 mos for labs, but the answer's always the same. (35 yrs ago, said I had B - - 10 years ago, tested neg for A & B and rcd immunization - - mine was C all those yrs ago - - biopsy was done 35 yrs ago also - - dr (now dead, fine hepatologist) wrote in file "Chronic Hep B). Oh, well!
Posts: 108 | From Florida | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Be very careful with Milk Thistle!! It made me vry sick,and I could not understand Why it would..
If you are alergic to Ragweed,Marigolds,Chrysanthemum,or Daisies,Milk thistle will be bad for you!!! That is why it made me sick!! I am alergic to all of these!!!
Good info Marnie..just be cautious whith the Milk thistle!!!!
DONT GIVE UP Paula!!!!! Read ,read, read,
BZ
Posts: 36 | From Pittsville Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
You didn't go to my link...this discusses Milk thistle and Hep C.?
Toxins are toxins...whether from bacteria or viruses or even... drugs.
Goal: get K and Cl back IN the cells.
Ascites (edema) is due to toxins impacting the kidneys as well as the liver. The Na-K pump is "broken" -> edema.
They refuse to tap his abdomen? 'Cause they say it will come right back?
No glutathione support? (Gylcine is a component)
Glycine...a lowly amino acid, a strange one!
Glycine looks to INactivate NFkB, downregulate TNF alpha and protect the liver:
``However, glycine, which led to improved survival rate and liver function, significantly alleviated liver parenchyma cell damage by downregulating IRAK-4,
TNF-a expression
and NF-KB transcriptional activity compared with the control group.
Conclusion: Glycine can attenuate hepatic I/RI by downregulating IRAK-4 to interfere with LPS signal transduction.''
HIV (just another mean virus) patients have high bilirubin levels.
Know how to treat high bilirubin levels?
Blue light (but shield the eyes). They do this with newborns who are jaundiced.
LONG story, but...the blue wavelength appears to knock out viruses and the red wavelength appears to impact bacteria (esp. far infrared).
[ 20. May 2007, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
I was typing and missed both your and Marnie's posts, earlier.
I just need to say this...
Paula, I would ask hubby to think long and hard AND research the interferon and rebetrol before jumping headlong into it.
Unless they tell him his liver is failing sometime soon (and from the biopsy it doesn't even sound close, from what I understand). I'd stay far away from it. It is liver protectant but almost impossible to clear the virus as Genotype 1.
I've watched too many do this and they didn't have lyme. It makes Lyme treatment look like a picnic and unless you're Genotype 2 or 3 is often for naught.
I'll shut up now. Please just get some more opinions on this.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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Marnie
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Member # 773
posted
For others who might be reading and don't understand...Hepatitis C genotype 1 is the most common.
"Why do most persons remain infected? Persons infected with HCV mount an antibody response to parts of the virus, but changes in the virus during infection result in changes that are not recognized by preexisting antibodies .
This appears to be how the virus establishes and maintains long-lasting infection."
If we have pathogens (bacterial or viral) that are "quick change artists" (alter their protein expressions),we can:
Try to prevent the pathogens from obtaining the proteins (in lyme...prevent cell wall formation), or try to alter those proteins OR...
Give it a protein or amino acid that it can't use.
In LYME, I suspect that amino acid maybe glycine.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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