posted
I read on a previous post the NASIAD's should be avoided in people with lyme? y is this?
-------------------- "One day at a time"
Current: -1.2 IM bicillin three times a week -1.25 IV Vancomycin every day -IV glutathione and IM B12 -Byron White since Jan. 2011 -ALA, Yasko protocal, Adapten-All, thyrosol, Pekano, phosphalipid exchange, probiotics, oregano... Posts: 390 | From FLORIDA | Registered: Jun 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
I am assuming you mean NSAIDS- um, I have never heard of anything particualr to Lyme but here is one doctors view on NSAIDS in general usage- ********************************************** 'Generally Safe' NSAIDs?
TO THE EDITOR: When will we ever learn? Physicians, patients and society have become so used to over-the-counter and prescription nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) as an everyday fact of life that we have become numbed to the devastation they cause. In "Cyclooxygenase-2 Enzyme Inhibitors: Place in Therapy,"(1) the authors, in an otherwise excellent article, state: "Although generally safe, 'traditional' NSAIDs account for almost one fourth of all reported adverse drug events. Approximately 15 percent of NSAID users have gastrointestinal tract symptoms such as dyspepsia, heartburn, nausea or vomiting. Each year, 1 to 4 percent of NSAID users have serious gastrointestinal tract complications such as hemorrhage, with an estimated cost of $15,000 to $20,000 per hospitalization. An estimated 16,500 NSAID-related deaths occur annually among patients with osteoarthritis or rheumatoid arthritis. Medical costs of complications associated with NSAID use exceed $4 billion annually."(1)
Since when are 16,500 deaths, $4 billion dollars in complications and a 15 percent rate of gastrointestinal complications including gastrointestinal hemorrhage and other debilitating and potentially lethal side effects considered "generally safe"? The authors did not mention renal, liver and other associated toxicities. It's time we think of these medications as the dangerous and potentially lethal drugs they are. When we supervise a resident who casually prescribes ibuprofen to an elderly patient or when we ourselves feel pressed to find an easy answer to a throbbing back or head pain in a hypertensive patient we should think "danger" not "generally safe."
ZACH ROSEN, M.D. Montefiore Family Health Center 360 East 193rd St. Bronx, NY 10458
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
Hi, I have used Ibuprofen a NSAID everyday for as long as I have had Lyme. Without it, I would have no pain relief.
When bacteria dies off it creates an inflammatory response in the body, that these drugs help.
A newer inflammation test my LLMD ran on me is called the C4A and it should be run with the C3A. If the C4 is high that means inflammation in the body associated w/LD which is normal when the body is fighting infection. However, if the C3 is high it could indicate that the inflammation could be auto-immune related.
I heard this about NSAID when I first became sick too, but I have 2 LLMD's both prescribe stronger anti inflammatories than what I take.
It's only my opinion, but I wouldn't think continued in inflammation in the body is a good thing.
Like my LLMD said - at these forums (which are great for information & support) sift through much of the information and rely on your own LLMD for the best information for you.
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
A well known example is ibuprofen, which has been around since 1969.
Although it was not known until 1998 that
ibuprofen inhibited NFKB,
knowledge of that fact is not required under existing patent law principles of inherency. It is enough that the drug inhibited NFKB.
Other well known drugs that also inhibit NFKB include aspirin , the immunosuppressive drug gliotoxin , and the rheumatoid arthritis treatment sulfasalazine .
NFKB inhibitors that people have used for thousands of years include garlic, red wine, capsaicin (the "hot" ingredient in peppers), and caffeic acid (from honeybee propolis, the material used to seal the honeycomb). Even vitamin E inhibits NFKB.
posted
I used over the counter naproxen (Aleve) for years and it really reduced my pain. I know I had and have lots of inflammation. THEN:
While checking my liver through CAT scan and nuclear scan, my GI doc found that I had clusters of ulcers in my stomach, a hiatal hernia and Barrett's esophagus (a pre-cancerous condition that will probably require surgery in a year or two.)
GI doc said NO NSAIDS again ever. I have had horrible pain, and now I FEEL the ulcer pain. I am taking meds for the ulcers but I still feel them and it's like all the aches and pains I ever had are bearing down on me.
I cannot walk without assistance and my pain is incredible. Doc gave me tramadol but it doesn't help much at all except for making me a bit sleepy. I would like to sleep all the time so I don't feel the pain.
Doc said I DID NOT have h pylori in my stomach and so he wouldn't prescribe antibiotics.
Guess the lesson is watch out for the NSAIDS. You might try not taking any for a couple of days and see where you feel pain the most. The med might be hiding something that needs attention.
Hoping for the best for all, Janet
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: No information presented above should be considered medical advice or take the place of advice given by a medical professional. Links to other sites are provided merely for ease of research. Posts: 287 | From Tennessee | Registered: Sep 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
NOT ENOUGH to put the brakes on NFkB - call to alarm signal that is not turned off!
Here's a more complete list...and look closely at what Bb is depleting that SHOULD normally function as the brakes for NFkB:
Although it was not known until 1998 that
ibuprofen inhibited NFKB,
knowledge of that fact is not required under existing patent law principles of inherency. It is enough that the drug inhibited NFKB.
Other well known drugs that also inhibit NFKB include aspirin , the immunosuppressive drug gliotoxin , and the rheumatoid arthritis treatment sulfasalazine .
NFKB inhibitors that people have used for thousands of years include garlic, red wine, capsaicin (the "hot" ingredient in peppers), and caffeic acid (from honeybee propolis, the material used to seal the honeycomb). Even vitamin E inhibits NFKB.
magnesium (but Bb has a Mg transporter gene..moves it out of the cells, not in)
lipoic acid (upregulated in lyme via Omega 6s)
ibuprofen
vitamin E (esp. the "alpha" form) drops in lyme...documented..our stores get used up
Black Raspberry Extracts
zinc (Bb has "zinc fingers"...depleting our zinc levels. Zinc fingers in HIV too...these are cysteine and histidine bound to zinc
glutathione (deficient in lyme because Bb needs cysteine - see above). That is our #1 antioxidant...so #2, melatonin kicks in...thanks to TNF alpha and drives Mg levels down.
Far infrared saunas (for more than NFkB reasons...very complex)
Oscillations (like the Soloflex machine).
Why oscillations?
J Biol Chem. 2001 Apr 20;276(16):13499-504. Epub 2000 Nov 28.
Oscillating fluid flow inhibits TNF-alpha -induced NF-kappa B activation via an Ikappa B kinase pathway in osteoblast-like UMR106 cells.
Kurokouchi K, Jacobs CR, Donahue HJ. Department of Orthopaedics and Rehabilitation and Cellular and Molecular Physiology, Musculoskeletal Research Laboratory, Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, Hershey, Pennsylvania 17033, USA.
Fluid flow plays an important role in load-induced bone remodeling. However, the molecular mechanism of flow-induced signal transduction in osteoblasts remains unclear.
***In endothelial cells, fluid flow alters activation of NF-kappaB resulting in changes in expression of cell adhesion molecules.***
To test the hypothesis that fluid flow alters NF-kappaB activation and expression of cell adhesion molecules in osteoblastic cells, we examined the effect of oscillating fluid flow (OFF) on tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha-induced NF-kappaB activation in rat osteoblast-like UMR106 cells.
We found that OFF inhibits NF-kappaB-DNA binding activities, especially TNF-alpha-induced p50-p65 heterodimer NF-kappaB activation and TNF-alpha-induced intercellular adhesion molecule-1 mRNA expression.
The inhibitory effects of OFF on both TNF-alpha-induced NF-kappaB activation and intercellular adhesion molecule-1 mRNA expression were shear stress-dependent and also increased with OFF exposure duration, indicating that OFF has potent effects on mechanotransduction pathways.
OFF also inhibited TNF-alpha-induced IkappaBalpha degradation and TNF-alpha-induced IkappaB kinase (IKK) activity in a shear stress-dependent manner.
These results demonstrate that IKK is an initial target molecule for OFF effects on osteoblastic cells. Thus, OFF inhibits TNF-alpha-induced IKK activation, leading to a decrease in phosphorylation and degradation of inhibitory IkappaBalpha, which in turn results in the decrease of TNF-alpha-induced NF-kappaB activation and potentially the transcription of target genes. PMID: 11096064
Oscillations are steady side to side movements...very rapid. The fluid flow is blood flow...keep in a 'movin!
This is currently being used by our astronauts who, when in space, suffer from oxidative stress and return to earth with LOW PFK levels and are anemic.
YOUR PFK levels are low too and you are suffering from extreme oxidative stress...thanks to Bb.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Thanks everybody.. NSAID's dont work for me either... my doctor jsut perscribed me with a new strong one but it still didint work. Up until I had lyme I NEVER took any pain medicine but then the pain got so severe I had too. Marnee, you are talking about things I learned in biochemistry, what do you do for a living?
-------------------- "One day at a time"
Current: -1.2 IM bicillin three times a week -1.25 IV Vancomycin every day -IV glutathione and IM B12 -Byron White since Jan. 2011 -ALA, Yasko protocal, Adapten-All, thyrosol, Pekano, phosphalipid exchange, probiotics, oregano... Posts: 390 | From FLORIDA | Registered: Jun 2007
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
I am a homemaker. Was an OB RN years ago.
I wanted to know WHY abx. (all of them) did not cure my sis (misdx'd and given steroids initially), so I began to research, to try to learn on my own.
It's been many years now...almost 3000 MS word files as I have tried hard to piece together this incredibly complex puzzle.
This is one smart bug!!!
We WILL outsmart it!!!
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Marnie, I know what you meen.. I feel like I need to study Lyme now. It's a horrible illness to have but from the medical standpoint its so itnerestign and so much more needs to be discovered. I am currently takign a speech class right now and am going to give a 10 minute speech on it to a bunch of colelge kids, hopefully my lyme fog wont get in the way.
-------------------- "One day at a time"
Current: -1.2 IM bicillin three times a week -1.25 IV Vancomycin every day -IV glutathione and IM B12 -Byron White since Jan. 2011 -ALA, Yasko protocal, Adapten-All, thyrosol, Pekano, phosphalipid exchange, probiotics, oregano... Posts: 390 | From FLORIDA | Registered: Jun 2007
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