posted
My cat has diabetes so we bring him in for blood tests every few months.
I asked the vet to test him for bart even though he is an indoor cat. (He was an outdoor cat 10+ years ago before we got him).
They ran the test and she said it came back "strongly" positive. So we have to give him zithromax for 4 weeks.
In late 2005 my blood tests came back positive for lyme, babs and bart and I am still being treated today.
Anyone here have experience with their pets having any of these diseases? Do you think it's just a coincidence that both the cat and I have bart? I didn't test him for lyme or babs but I am thinking maybe next time we bring him in I should get him tested him for lyme?
Just another strange twist to my story!
-David
-------------------- Same nightmare, different day! Posts: 401 | From East Coast | Registered: Nov 2005
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cantgiveupyet
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posted
Hey David,
that is a strange twist. Ive often wondered if my cat has bart too, but they ran a CBC on her and her white blood cells were normal, so i assumed she didnt have an infection. The vet said lyme is very rare in cats.
I think the cat could have given you the bart, does the cat bite you a lot or scratch you?
I did ask the vet if i could have gotten anything from my cat and he said just localized infection. I just dunno.
Hope your having a good monday- i still owe you and email.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
My ex's cat used to scratch me real bad, and that's when I started getting subtle symptoms(pain in groin, hip, and leg). At first, I thought my ex gave me a STD because she was cheating on me. Of course, in my situation, I went into sick building and illness completely took over.
Possible coincidence though, or indirect correlation.
merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
I have been a vet tech for 10 years. You can get bart from your cat. You can get it from scrathces and fleas.
I have never tested a cat or treated a cat for Lyme. I am recently diagnosed with Lyme and I havent been back to work since. When I feel better and go back I will be looking into all of these things,
I also contracted Toxoplasmosis from animals. A lot of people have been exposed naturally, but I became sick from it last year. This is a parasite that you can get from cat liter/feces. You may want to get your titer for that checked too.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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merrygirl
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posted
You can inhale Toxoplasmosis from changing the cat litter. I am not sure about the others.
coop your litter every day and clean the litter box out with bleach and h20 once a week.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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kelmo
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posted
I had my 12 year old indoor cat tested for bart (because the first six months we had him we kept him outside most of the time, what did we know?)
He came up negative. But, my LLMD says that 90% of dogs and cat have it but are asymptomatic.
I clean out my cat's litter box 2-3 times daily.
But, I'm sure I don't scrub his paws afterward, either.
We disinfect everything in the house due to my daughter's phobia. We don't eat until the table has been washed with a disinfectant cleaner.
What can you do? YOu do it all to protect yourself, and you still get sick!
posted
Hi! Was curious what kind of test came up positive for Bartonella-was it a PCR or antibody test? It seems from what I have read in the past that it is easier to diagnose a pet with a disease than a human being and I'm not sure why.
Do they use the same labs that are used for people-Specialty Labs,Quest,etc.?
Would be interested to know!
Posts: 425 | From NY, United States | Registered: Mar 2005
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Just Julie
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posted
Another interesting thing about bartonella and cats is that, while researching online about why my cats (13 yr old outside only cat) gums had become red (at the toothline) and found BARTONELLA as a possible causative agent in this disease, called "stomatitis" by my vet. Stomatitis being an inflammation of the gum.
I was particularly worried about finding that the cat having bartonella could cause this gum line disease/infection, because my cat does scratch us when he's playing, or when he's had enough attention. Not a lot of potential scratching, just enough to make me worried. Especially after reading that cats may pass on bart to their humans.
If you are curious to see if your cat possibly has bartonella, look at their gums. The treatment for this gum disease (which apparently can come on out of nowhere, and is quite common) is Clindamyacin (Aquarobe drops)and STEROID shots.
I did not get to the point of asking my vet to test my cat for bartonella. My vet has been known to gauge patients, and I found that she was heading in that direction with me and my cat. I asked that she not give the steroid shot to my cat on a return visit to check his gums to see if it was coming back (the treatment is supposed to make the gum redness go away for a period of time, but then it comes back--it's a chronic condition) and the vet just flipped up his lip, said "yep it's back" and proceeded to give the shot without so much as a word of discussion with me!
I was going to see if trying just antibiotics first, before just giving another steroid shot, would work on my cat's gums. But didn't get the chance on the last vet visit, so now, I am dosing him (hey, just like lyme people!) on my own, with leftover Clindamycin abx that I got from 1-800-Pet-Meds, because intially, my first vet (same practice) agreed to give me a written rx for 800 petmeds because getting it that way was half price over getting it straight from the vet's office. Gee, no surprise there.
Anyway, I had 2 bottles of the Clinda abx for my cat on hand, tried just giving him the abx without getting a steroid shot, and wouldn't ya know--his gums got better WITHOUT the steroid shot (and an $68.00 vet visit!) so I"m rethinking about whether I want to return to this particular vet. The other vet that was so helpful left the practice, so only the money hungry vet is left there, and I don't think she's going to want to "work with me" on giving me a continued rx for 800-petmeds service. I hate that in a vet, and she's a woman too, so I expect more. Moneygrubbers, some of them. I hear from my neighbors that she's always been this way with her vet practice, but I hate to change vets at this point in my cats life.
The vet's practice is called Martinez Animal Hospital, I won't post her name, in case that a "no no" too, but I would not recommend anyone going there for their animals care.
I wish I could find out if my cat has bart for sure. If there is a reliable test out there for it. Anyone know for sure?
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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posted
My cat (former stray) started vomiting, ran a fever and tested + for Bart, requiring Zithro (why is cat Zithro so much cheaper??) Anyway my LLMD said I could not get "human" Bart from cat, though I could get cat scratch fever.
Posts: 459 | From Connecticut - just across the river from the Lymes (Old Lyme, Hadlyme, East Lyme, South Lyme & Lyme) | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Julie, you are correct that steroids should not be given casually to any creature. Your doubts about your vet seem well placed in my opinion. Too much steroids could make your cat diabetic and weaken it's immune system.
My cat has feline stomatitis. He had to eventually have all his teeth out. Unfortunately for him, he still gets sores (this is unusual).
Glad the clindamycin helped. You might google lysine and stomatitis. Herpes can be underlying stomatitis too.
Posts: 211 | From NC | Registered: Dec 2005
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merrygirl
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posted
I will look into the blood test for Bart for you all when I have a minute.
I would also not give your cat any steroids.
melissa
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Just Julie
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posted
thanks Mtnwoman! I did not see any information that steroids can lead to diabetes, but knew of the shortened lifespan connection with giving steroids. . . the research that I found online also indicated that abx with steroids was the "usual treatment" but also suggested trying abx alone, which is what I did without my vets input. And that is what is working now, so I"m happy, but also know that when the clinda bottle #2 runs out, I will be either having to deal with finding another vet, or seeing if this vet who was trigger happy with the steroid injection at the last visit is open to hearing my input on 800 petmeds (which will cut into her profit margin on the same bottle of clinda I get from petmeds).
I don't relish the thought of a mini confrontation with her at this juncture, she knows where I live (up the street from her vet practice, in a semi-well off neighborhood) so I don't think she'll be really believing that cost is a motivating factor for me (but husband is a tightwad when it comes to vet care).
I also don't want to have to interview another vet on this issue, which is probably going to be long term, unless I get his teeth pulled, which is what it sounds like you did. My cat is an outside only cat, and will never be made an inside only cat due to allergies, and the possbility of a tick(s) traveling into our house from his extremely long haired body. Even if I quarantined him for months before making him an inside only cat, we could not live with the allergies his being inside would trigger. Husband is also not a cat person. Horrible combo.
So-ooooo. It's a battle, but then when does anything involving antibiotics not become a battle, I tell you? Seems like there's always a connection with wanting this family of drugs and getting them prescribed for you. Liquid gold.
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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Just Julie
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posted
thanks Merrygirl about finding out about the bart test for cats. I'm curious to know if there is a different abx than clindamycin to be given to a cat if it's positive for bart? And if in this puzzle, if a different abx were to be given, if that would alleve the stomatitis, thus "curing" the cat, and it's need for having to be given clindamycin to keep the stomatis in check?
Hmmmm. Hoping for a cure!
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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Truthfinder
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posted
Well, I don't know how reliable this information is, but it covers some of our questions about Bartonella......
I'd like to know more about symptoms and if regular CBC blood tests tell anything, etc. My cat has seemed lethargic for the past year, seems to run fevers for no reason at times, gets infected from other cat scratches and bites easily, and has inflamed gums around a couple of his teeth.......
Tracy *******************************
HOW LIKELY IS IT FOR A CAT TO BE INFECTED?
Since fleas carry the bacteria, cats with insufficient flea control are at highest risk. This means cats living in climates that are warm and humid (conditions fleas thrive best in) are most likely to be infected. If conditions are right, up to 40% of cats in an area may be infected. If a person is diagnosed with cat scratch disease, there is a 90% chance that the cats they own will be found infected as well.
DO INFECTED CATS GET SICK?
This is a highly controversial question as there is some evidence that Bartonella henselae infection may be one cause of the progressive oral disease of the cat called Plasma Cell Stomatitis. It has been suggested that Bartonella infection may be a the root of numerous chronic inflammatory conditions of the cat. With such high numbers of infected cats present regionally (up to 40%), it is going to be difficult to prove one way or the other whether there is a real association or just coincidence.
Many cats with Plasma Cell Stomatitis test strongly positive for Bartonella henselae but this may simply reflect a high incidence of exposure in the community. These cats often show tremendous improvement in their oral disease with antibiotics focussed on eradication of Bartonella; however, since secondary infections are common with Plasma Cell Stomatitis, antibiotic response is common. The jury is still out and the controversy rages on, but there is certainly nothing harmful in treating a cat with Plasma Cell Stomatitis for Bartonella, though the medication (azithromycin) is somewhat expensive.
Other than this controversy over chronic illnesses, if there are symptoms of infection they are mild, transient, and similar to those of humans: fever, swollen lymph nodes, muscle pain.
CAN DOGS GET INFECTED?
The short answer is: yes. Fleas may carry the infection as they do for cats plus it appears that ticks may also be carriers. As with cats, dogs are not believed to get sick from this infection except for the minor flu-like symptoms described above.
IS MY CAT INFECTED?
There are 5 tests available to detect Bartonella henselae: ELISA, IFA, PCR, Culture, and Western Blot. All the tests have pros and cons and no method seems to shine above the others.
The ELISA, IFA, and Western Blot tests are tests for antibody detection, the idea being that if antibodies against Bartonella are there then Bartonella must be there as well. For most diseases where antibody levels are used to establish a diagnosis, a mimimum ``titer'' or antibody amount is considered necessary to say ``yes, this patient is infected.'' The problems for Bartonella is that no such guidelines have been established. Making matters worse, we know that up to 11% of cats with Bartonella organisms happily circulating in their bloodstreams will not make antibodies and will thus test negative. At least this means that when the test is negative there is an 89% or greater chance that the cat is truly negative.
The most reliable test is the blood culture; however, several consecutive cultures are needed as the organism tends to only circulate intermittently. A positive culture is proof of infection though a negative culture may simply not have been taken at the time when organism is circulating.
PCR is a very sensitive DNA test for the presence of Bartonella DNA but because the organism only intermittently circulates, this may not offer much advantage over culture (except that results can be obtained slightly sooner).
In humans, a delayed hypersensitivity skin test is used as part of the diagnostic criteria for Cat Scratch Disease but this test has not been useful in cats. In this test, similar to the Tuberculosis test most of us are familiar with, a scratch on the skin is made and a reaction to the introduced antigens may occur either right away or in approximately 48 hours (delayed hypersensitivity reaction). Cats are poor delayed hypersensitivity responders.
TREATMENT OF THE CAT
Right now the most reliable treatment seems to be Azithromycin which clears 83% of infected cats. The course of treatment is approximately 3 weeks. Other antibiotics have been less promising.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
Drown it*)!*)!
(Just kidding, I have six of the beasts!!!)
I don't htink it is coincidence AT ALL- they used dogs as sentinel animals for Lyme all across the country!!! Your cat is your sentinel!
When I first got sick my cat of almost 10 years got diagnosed within 3 weeks of my Irritable Bowel Syndrome diagnosis with Inflammatory Bowel Disease and my toddler was diagnsoed GI distress due to unknown allergic reaction!!! Within 3 weeks of each other!!!! A cat who had previously never had bowel distress as neither had I!!!
No, I don't think it is coincidence at all! His Inflammatory bowel problem went away with Doxy the same way mine went away with Doxy!!! I gave him some of mine and it went away-!!!
When my cats lose weight and begin looking fatigued I give them tonic water 3 droppers a day because of Babesiosis and they always perk up- they are hunters and I believe they catch it and recatch it from eating rats & moles- a study found rats can get Babs from eating other dead rats (how do they THINK of these studies*)!>? so I figure cats should be able to get it the same way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take care of you & your kitty&*)(!*)! Best wishes, Sarah and her six kitty brats!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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merrygirl
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We usually traet cats that are positive with Sithromax kiquid for a month.
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merrygirl
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posted
Wow that was some bad spelling sorry. My hands hurt today
We treat the cats with 1 month of Zithromax liguid.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Just Julie
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posted
Tracy, Sarah and Merrygirl!! cheers!!! huzzah! I'm printing these links off, and going to mull over which vet (old, or a new one) to talk this over with.
From my reading here of this information regarding bart hens. being a potential causative agent for the stomatitis, I came to the conclusion that testing is not an effective indicator of whether the stomatitis is caused by the bart organism. That led me to want to ask a vet if treating with zith for at least a month will be an option, with NO testing involved.
And that of course got me to the point of thought being, which vet (old or a new one) would be most likely to try treatment with zith, without costly bart testing. Because ANY and all vet tests are expensive, but are also generally done for profit margins, which leads me to believe I may have an easier time asking a new vet (well, he's actually an old vet of mine, but was my dogs vet 10 yrs ago) for this treatment, w/ no testing beforehand.
Something to mull over. The stomatitis is going to come back, it has recently, and when it's pretty bad, my cat stops eating, so not something to just wait to go away on it's own. I also do not relish the thought of the stomatitis becoming resistant to the current abx treatment, which is clindamycin, and stopping working, because the only known "cure" is to pull all the teeth out. And as I said before, my cat is an outside only cat, and I fear I'd have to find him another home, which would have to be an inside only home, and thus, not mine.
I'm sad, this seems to be another obstacle to try and surmount. My cat has lived here all his life, and has been an outside cat all his life...he's 13, and pretty happy here. It's cat paradise in this area, he's top cat (with another neighbors cat that adopted us, who is a submissive Siamese).
I want the best for him, and I'll just have to muddle thru the vet issue. Got one bottle left of the clinda abx, which seems to just hold off the stomatitis for a time.
Again, many thanks to the hardworking ladies here on this thread!
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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