disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
Hi.
I want to know more about transmission from partner to partner. I never knew this was possible.
How is it transmitted? Through kissing or sex or both?
Thanks.
~Ashley
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Ashley,
There are no answers to your question. Some people, including some doctors and researchers, believe Lyme can be transmitted through sex. Others do not.
There is no proof either way. I believe some studies may have found the bacteria in sperm. There are couples where both are sick. There seem to be more couples where only one is sick.
I can't imagine it can be passed through kissing. If that were the case, I would expect there would be outbreaks in colleges like there are outbreaks of mono. None of my boyfriends have ever had Lyme, and I've been infected since before my first kiss.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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MagicAcorn
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8786
posted
It is not possible according to my doctors and I believe them. Been married for 20 + years and the hubba does not have it.
It is transmitted congenitally but that is a different animal.
-------------------- Posts: 1279 | From In hiding | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
There has not beed extensive research research in the area of sexual transmission of LD. However, the spirochetes have been isolated from every bodily fluid, including sperm.
There has also been documented cases where partners had to have gotten Lyme from there partner. I think Lyme can be sexually transmitted but it is not likely because the spirochetes move around and are not always present and every bodily fluid this is one of the reasons why tests are inaccurate).
Also, transmission would be more likely from male to female like any STD because more fluid is transferred. Spriochetes are also found in urine, and Bb is a smart bacteria.. it wouldnt jsut accidently get excreted out it has to be a survival method.
Sexual transmission could be another survival method for the spirochetes. In my opinion, doctors are in denial about sexual transmission of the disease and will be until there is valid research done on the subject. Better be safe than sorry!
-------------------- "One day at a time"
Current: -1.2 IM bicillin three times a week -1.25 IV Vancomycin every day -IV glutathione and IM B12 -Byron White since Jan. 2011 -ALA, Yasko protocal, Adapten-All, thyrosol, Pekano, phosphalipid exchange, probiotics, oregano... Posts: 390 | From FLORIDA | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
There has not beed extensive research research in the area of sexual transmission of LD. However, the spirochetes have been isolated from every bodily fluid, including sperm.
There has also been documented cases where partners had to have gotten Lyme from there partner. I think Lyme can be sexually transmitted but it is not likely because the spirochetes move around and are not always present and every bodily fluid this is one of the reasons why tests are inaccurate).
Also, transmission would be more likely from male to female like any STD because more fluid is transferred. Spriochetes are also found in urine, and Bb is a smart bacteria.. it wouldnt jsut accidently get excreted out it has to be a survival method.
Sexual transmission could be another survival method for the spirochetes. In my opinion, doctors are in denial about sexual transmission of the disease and will be until there is valid research done on the subject. Better be safe than sorry.. my LLMD told me specifically not to have sex so I believe him.
-------------------- "One day at a time"
Current: -1.2 IM bicillin three times a week -1.25 IV Vancomycin every day -IV glutathione and IM B12 -Byron White since Jan. 2011 -ALA, Yasko protocal, Adapten-All, thyrosol, Pekano, phosphalipid exchange, probiotics, oregano... Posts: 390 | From FLORIDA | Registered: Jun 2007
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I have met the scientist/researcher and he told an audience of more than 100 doctors/physicians/dentists that the infection even happens by touching ones mouth, putting the same hand on the table, the next person touching the area and transmission perfect.
They are not permitted to send any of the material they use for testing from one lab to the other for security reasons.
It has been found on doorhandles and public telephones and cultured positive. A group of brave souls took the swaps.
Don't kid yourself and don't try. The only difference is that one person's immune function may still be in order and will not be affected by the transmission; while the next person may succumb to Lyme Disease as many of us experience it.
I was bit by a tick, bulls eye, positive everything. My husband came down with the disease 18 months later that landed him in a wheelchair. He had never needed a doctor his whole life, but after feeding, bathing and dressing me, the stress affected his immunity and he became very ill, with Lyme Disease and everything that goes along with it - viral, parasites, fungi, metal -- all had been well under control.
T I would not recommend that anyone take a chance.
Take care.
P.S. You may want to do a search here - this subject has been discussed many times before.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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breathwork
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 567
posted
My LLMD tested my husband shortly after he took me on as a patient. His only symptom was sore elbows...
He tested positive. This is a man who is a Silicon Valley geek...so being an outdoors type, even to take a walk is a challenge.
He was treated for three months with oral doxy and is fine five years later.
My LLMD said that he tests most partners and has found a high incidence of partner positive Western Blots, even without symptoms. He has a theory that the bugs that the partners get are already a bit attenuated by being clobbered by the other partner's immune system and meds, so they are a bit easier to treat....This isn't a rule by any means, merely a generalization.
I would be careful. My LLMD says use condoms.It's not worth the risk.
Posts: 1062 | From CA USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Vanilla
Unregistered
posted
2 out of 2 of the LLMDs I have seen said it is in found in salvia and sperm and is sexually transmitted.
Dr. S. told someone here on the board that when mice live in the same cage they get it from eachother just by hanging out together.
It is a sneaky disease. Keep both eyes open.
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Male to female Highly possible my wife has it to now.Read Newbie links.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Ticks!!!!
I do not believe it is sexually transmissible except rarely possibly and I do not believe it is transmissble by kissing or saliva because I have never seen a bulls-eye spread from someones mouth! I am a support group leader and I see bulls-eyes a lot!!! ALL over the body!!! But NEVER on mouth(*)!
This actually detracts greatly from our credibiilty as a patient population to have this kind of misinformation out there, yes, even from speculative doctors!!! I know it is out there, this idea, but it does NOT help our cause, it hurts us. There is a lack of acknowledgment of science here, big time!!!!
I know I am in the minority here- even in my own group I get boo-ed when it comes to this*)!*!)! People believe what they want to believe.
I do believe a HUGE amount of the US population has Lyme, but I believe it is mainly, NOT even from TICKS but congenital, handed down. We are not the first generation of Lymies. it has been generation upon generation. There are probably family specific strains.
This is the radical thing *I* believe(*)!*)!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
"I have never seen a bulls-eye spread from someones mouth!"
Sarah, I have never seen that either. And I don't think it's a bit funny.
But I have seen the results of transmission of cell wall deficient borrelia (CWD) from my body to the body of my once healthy husband. In fact I know when and where I got my physical tick bite, rather a horse fly bite, and my husband was not at the same location. I was there alone - by myself.
I will repeat here from a conference several years ago the spoken words by a scientist (of record) who testifies on similar matters before Congress.
"CWD's can be transmitted every way, including the ticks, but can be transmitted by saliva, kissing, sexual intercourse. It can even be passed on by touching your fingers to your lips and then touching a table, and someone else comes along and picks it up.
We found that form of Lyme stays very prolific for as high as 72 hours, in the sunlight even; so this is somthing that everybody has to be aware of. In the sclerosing type of patient, this toxin itself that is produced by this cell wall deficient Lyme is just like a blob. It has lost its spirochete form that looks like a syphilis spirochete. What it does - it's just a blob and it just goes everywhere, and it's very very highly contageous. In fact when we tried to ship it from .... to .....other lab to do some more testing on it, our security won't let us do it anymore. We can't ship from one lab to another."
Sarah, I do not care really whether you believe this and act accordingly within your own circle of people. You have and are living with the results of your actions.
But for the rest of you people reading this post, all I want to say is: Take this seriously - don't chance it. With a little extra care, you can protect your loved ones and save yourself a lot of heartache. I have overcome it, but I wish I had known this fact -- this bug is contageous. And yes, it is passed down in utero. But remember, not everyone gets sick --- a functioning immune system will and does keep many exposed people from getting full blown Lyme Disease.
Take care.
P.S. Sarah/CaliforniaLyme "resisted" most of what I said back on this board in the year 2000. She is now back on this board chiming in with the rest of the Negative Nellies continuing her drumroll for antibiotics and not much or nothing else.
I am not anti-abx. I have had antibiotics in short durations for about 6-8 months, broken up into 3-4 week periods over several years. But that alone did not cure me. I was cured by sensible living and everything that I have posted about on this board over these seven years: Clearly, clean up the body.
For a short number of years now we know that unless we detox the body from the Sulfa residuals that we accumulated from antibiotics, other drugs, and food (antibiotics fed to fish, beef, etc), it is difficult to impossible to detox the body of the daily uptake of environmental toxins and the old ones we have accumulated over a lifetime. Mainly the heavy metals. (read up on LED). In other words, the sulfa residuals present in the tissues prevent the affected person from being able to effectively take up into their tissues sulfur-containing nutrients and detoxification substances, such as cysteine, NAC, L-glutathioneLipoic acid, whether through supplementation or food (onions, garlic, leak, etc)
If we are not able to take up these sulfurs = cysteins, etc. etc., into our body, we cannot get rid of the toxins in our body now or the new ones we are picking up everyday from our daily exposure. The result: a toxic body cannot heal Lyme.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Vanilla
Unregistered
posted
Californialyme I believe my grandmother had lyme and passed it down to all of us. I think when I received a bite that started many of my symptoms along with a bulls eye I probably already had lyme in my system and it just went into over load.
My grandmother had anxiety and depression and was given shock treatments. My cousin has had LD twice (it probably never went away the first time) and my uncle acts insane (he was kicked off an airplane - not a mean person just psycho) and probably my grandmother passed down bart along with LD. Many in my family can not tolerate gluten which to me can be a lyme symptom.
My mother died of breast cancer at a young age I wonder if it was at all lyme related? She thinks taking birth control pills triggered it but she also chain smoked and drink soda with fake sugar in it.
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breathwork
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 567
posted
Hi Sarah,
I just wanted to add that an EM would not appear with oral or genital transmission as the EM is a reaction of the skin, an organ, to a bite rather than transmission by bodily fluids....The skin organ would react to an bite differently than the mucosa to a bodily fluid transmission. I'm not picking on you, just adding a bit more information....
I have no opinion as to whether oral transmission is possible, only on sexual transmission. Oral transmission would be an entirely different beast as the enzymes in the mouth, competing bacteria, and digestive acids would be entirely different challenges to the bugs than the environment of the genital areas. For example HIV is not transmitted by kissing, but is by sexual activity. It may be transmissable orally, but I would not expect to see an EM.
Carol Ann
Posts: 1062 | From CA USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I've been living for YEARS thinking I had an "unknown" STD...why? Because after I had a relationship with a guy, he made me really sick. Not only that I've infected 2 other people, the latter, my husband as of now shares ALL of the same symptoms as me. There is no medical explination of this, I've been through COUNTLESS std tests. I second guess my DX all the time, but the doctors have left me without a choice but to believe it is Lyme.
-------------------- "don't ever write anyone off, you'll never know who or what they will become" Posts: 115 | From la la land | Registered: Apr 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
I am not going to be drawn into talking mean about people. I don't do that to anyone including you, Gigi- and never have. What's more, I think your characterization of me is inaccurate; I am the most positive person I know! What's even more, I have always, as I have posted more than once, thought you were pretty neat, so please leave me alone. I still think you are pretty neat except for this.
Gigi said: Sarah/CaliforniaLyme "resisted" most of what I said back on this board in the year 2000. She is now back on this board chiming in with the rest of the Negative Nellies continuing her drumroll for antibiotics and not much or nothing else. END QUOTE
Um, regarding the thread topic again, refusing to be distracted by personal attacks, I wanted to bring up the blood bank issue- they have tracked transfusions and people who get Lymed blood do not get sick from it- my point being exposure does not necessitate infection!!!!
Mrsdizzy- I BELIEVE you!! As I also wrote, I believe there is a tiny minority like that of Hep C that is sexually tranmissible!!! 99% of the time Hep C is NOT sexually transmissible but it DOES happen!!!! It has been proven. I do believe there is probably a small subset of patients who do get it that way but I think it is rare!!! It has not been proven yet with Lyme-
Take care all, Including you Gigi!!! I don't bear *you* any ill will, I wish you the best of health, as I do everyone here, Best wishes, Sarah
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
p.s. LEPTOSPIROSIS is transmissible through MILK and WATER, SYPHILLIS through bodily fluids- different spirochetes are different!!! You can drink Lyme and probably NOT get it the way you do Leptospirosis (we could do a urine drinking study on this if anyone wants to*)!*)!! Just kidding!!! NOT appetizinG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But leptospirosis is not in ticks, nor syphills- different vectors have what are drawn to each- and sex, HECK, if Lyme was sexually transmissible our support group would have a lot more swingers in it*)*!)*!)!!!!!!!! Instead of hikers!!!!!!!!!! And gardeners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
California_Lyme, I was not directing my post towards you!!! I was just saying the facts, my story. like I said I second guess my diagnosis ALL THE TIME, however, I am left with NOTHING ELSE to believe!!! I'm not getting better with this DX and it's starting to really scare the sh*# out of me. Why my husbad and I are suffering and leading a miserable life, sharing symptoms is beyond me!!
Infact, I want to add that Lyme never ever crossed my mind until I was searching online and ended up calling some Dr. out of deperation and was told by his secretary that Lyme is "totally and STD" I was jumping for joy, like we had hit the lottery. Then after shelling out hundereds of dollars and a several hour car ride he tells me, "No, I don't believe LD is transmitted through sex". I'm sorry but I felt as though I was "lured" in there...
I have to continue with treatment to see how it goes, hopefully it will cure my most debiliating ones and then I can get my husband help.
PS: You don't have to beleive me half the time I don't beleive it either!!
-------------------- "don't ever write anyone off, you'll never know who or what they will become" Posts: 115 | From la la land | Registered: Apr 2007
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Remember this spirochete is also messing up our DNA continualy JUNK DNA.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
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