Topic: Easy and cheap! Reduces inflammation and proven on tests to do so!
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
GOOD NEWS!!!
My C4a test was so high it was UNBELIEVABLE!!! Nothing was bringing it down and I felt right awful. After doing what I am sharing below.. my test results went zooming of in the right direction.. showing the protocol was working!!!
I HAD a test reading of about 14,000 (normal is in the hundreds). My latest test .. after doing this protocol below.. showed my results as dropping to 7,000. In ONLY a couple of months!!!
Hope it can help you!!!
Excessive inflammation ... especially during herxing... can cause pain, swelling and may make you feel like your body is aching and on fire.
The first time I tried these THREE supplements listed below my body was so inflamed that my vision was obstructed by what is called ``mutton fat'' deposits floating inside the eye balls (globs of inflammation).
I was prescribed steroid drops to combat it, however, I spoke to another doctor before I started the drops and he suggested a protocol which is used for reducing inflammation.
It worked wonderfully.. and the doctor told me he never saw anyone improve so fast and so well on the steroid drops he prescribed after my first follow-up visit. He didn't know at the time I wasn't even using them.. that I had instead tried something different!!
The second time I tried this protocol I was miserable all over and had been for months on end. SO bad! Within days of starting it I felt like a truck had been towed off my poor body and like I was going to live after all.
This protocol is VERY easy.. VERY cheap.. and it has worked for me and others.
I hope you will consider it if you are in pain. Be sure to check with your doctor first.. because I wouldn't want them jumping on MY head about anything!
To reduce inflammation try the following supplements.
NOTE- I purposely take VERY low dose everything because that is what suits ME best. If you don't find relief in the first week after starting this protocol.. consider going up to the normal doses.
NOTE- I asked my doc the other day WHY this protocol worked so well.. and he said the supplements below "eat" the inflammation. That was a simple way to put it... but it worked!
Anyhow.. hope this helps!!! I started the protocol again a couple of months ago and am still taking the supplements.. so you KNOW it must be helping.. cause I don't like taking ANYTHING!!!
Wobenzym N
Dose- 1 tablet every morning
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Vitamin E- (Source Naturals)
200 IU softgels- one every morning and one every night
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Non-Citrus Quercetin- 500 mg. (Solaray)
1 capsule in the morning
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THAT'S it! Simple and easy!
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To Note-
In addition I regularly take:
800 mg of Ibuprofen- 2 x day
Sudafed 12 hour Sinus- OTC
[NOTE- When taking JUST the ibuprofen and Sudafed (for headaches to reduce inflammation and pressure and fluid) I do MUCH better than normal. BUT.. even while on those two meds the inflammation has gotten the better of me on a number of occasions.. especially during and after herxing... and the additional three supplements I added REALLY helped.]
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Also after the inflammation was reduced- I started one tablet (200 mg.) doxycycline a day... 5 days a week.
Suggested also in the doctors inflammation protocol:
Vitamin C - I don't use due to it not helping me personally and associated stomach problems.
Reduce intake of saturated fats- N/A in MY case as I already did that to the lowest levels.
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For sources to get these things...
Price for supplements-
Total price per month= approximately $18.00 per month for all THREE supplements
I purchase these supplements from a mail order business (listed below) and have had great success with the company. No.. I have no interest in them nor do I get a bonus for saying that. I just found them to be reliable, to have good service and VERY good prices. They don't carry the Soloray Quercetin... so another source is needed for that one.
posted
Thank you for the info. I am now going to buy these supplements. Source does make nice products.
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Great info! Thanks for sharing TC
I just went & checked labels. Both Jarrow formulas' Vision Optimizer and NTI's Aller Avert contain the C, E, & Quercetin. Pre-Dx, Either of these combined with taking Sudafed & Ibuprofen or Naproxen Sodium (Aleve) seemed to give me the best "functionability". I also used to take the Wobenzym periodically.
I remember having been specifically looking for Quercetin at the time & trying to find a formulation to reduce the number of supplements I would need to take.
I guess I should get back to taking them again. Thanks for reminding me, I really was feeling fairly decent when I was doing that!!!
Ali
My health food store "Guru" had told me to take 3 of the Zymes 2x daily on empty stomach. He said many see better relief than with the NSAIDs. It was too many pills for me to keep up.
Also, when I have to take Vit-C (LLMD told me to), I use "Ester-C" It's much gentler on the digestive tract.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Tc try adding Melatonin 3.0mg at night watch though the first time i did it it was almost like a herx but when I take it 2 or 3 times a week now 1/2hr before bedtime I wake up feeling better. I am going to try some of what your using.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
I wonder if the Rechts Regulat will work as well as the Wobenzyme. I need to get my husband back on it. He was taking it for a while but we had to stop everything at one point to figure out what was causing stomach problems (Zithro!) and never added it back in.
Posts: 984 | From San Diego | Registered: Nov 2006
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aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
Hi there TC,
Glad you posted this. As we speak I'm having same old inflammation problems.
Sinus's are killing me along with my head.
I use total discount vitamins website and hope they have the same brands that you're taking.
Hope you're feeling better.
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6918 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Does it matter if the Quercetin doesn't say non citrus? Are they all the same, or what's the differnce between the ones that say non citrus and regular Quercetin?
Kathy
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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Thanks for the great info. Maybe this will help my son's chronic pain. Will check with his doc.
What is the dose for the Vit C (even though you don't take it)? Your help is always greatly appreciated. Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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Thanks for the great info. Maybe this will help my son's chronic pain. Will check with his doc.
What is the dose for the Vit C (even though you don't take it)? Your help is always greatly appreciated. Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Wonderful! Now is something to be used daily as a preventative measure, or only when herxing/inflamed?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Look at all the smiling faces! Nice to see you ALL!!!
I am TRYING to get to bed early tonight and catch up on some sleep.. so will quickly respond to what I can.
Hey millie vanillie... I like the source naturals brand too. And with the place I use they have a sale price on them usually every other month or so... making it much nicer!
Nice to see you!!
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Yes.. Ali G.. I smile to see you too. I tried the Ester C you mentioned! Good point. But even then.. the C didn't agree with ME for some reason???? But I do suggest it... and it was suggested by my doc back then. Glad you mentioned it!
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Oh Tree.. thanks for the reminder on the melatonin!!! Good idea! And the timing is great too!!! I could use a good nights sleep!
Glad YOU are getting some. Sleep that is...
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Parisa... I am sorry I am not familiar with the product you mentioned.. but my doc did tell me now they are making products LIKE the Wobenzyme.. and he listed the ingredients for me.. mostly because I whined about the price of the Wobenzyme.
But after thinking about it... and I ALSO don't like swallowing pills if I don't HAVE to... I figured the Wobenzyme is VERY small in size... coated nicely, easy to swallow and doesn't open up too soon because of the stomach acid which is good.. and it would be ONE pill (taken at the dose I do).... rather than several of others doing individual ingredients.. IF I stay taking just one. Did that make ANY sense?
Sorry I am fading here.. and goofy normally too... so I HOPE I was clear?
I also told my doc I won't take anything on an empty stomach... (excuse me a moment- side note-hey muffin head- I remember)... and he frowned real big.. cause you are suppose to do that. But it still is helping me .. even taking it with food.
But remember.. I am weird! Do as I say.. not as I do. HA!
Anyhow... I hope it will help hubby! Do let us know.. ok?
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Little wolf!! Long time no see! I hope YOU and YOURS are feeling good!!!
I like this protocol for several reasons and one is that it isn't a LOT of extra pills to take. So maybe that will be inviting for some folks?
Good luck with it!!! Feel better soon my friend!
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Aiden...
GOOD question!!! I should have explained... but forgot... so I am glad you asked! I like the non-citrus brand because it doesn't have the added Vitamin C in it like the others do.
When I was taking the normal Quercetin WITH Vitamin C.. and also taking more vitamin C too.. I had to be careful to figure the duel Vitamin C milligram sources so I wouldn't do too much. And I was pretty sick then and was too discombobbled to think.. so the non-citrus made it easier for me. Now I just like it because any C makes me a bit concerned... cause I am a sissy baby. Once bitten .. twice shy.
So it is basically a personal preference for me. I have used the other kind (with Vitamin C) and it should be fine... just remember to check all your supplements so as not to over due the total Vitmain C per day. Ok?
Hope that helps?
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Hey hoping and praying.. nice to see you too!! I wish I was here more. I sure miss you guys!
You asked about the dose of the Vitamin C.. and I KNEW someone would.. darn it all. HA!
I really can't say. I had forgotten... so I didn't want to put something up there that wasn't accurate. My GUESS is.. and again I am not sure.. but I THINK it was up to 2,000 mg???
I remember having to calculate the normal amount of vitamin C from my multi-vitamin pill and the added vitamin C in the Quercetin together... and add the mg. for the additional vitamin C pills... so it was a bit difficult for my brain at the time.
I DO remember I was suppose to start slowly and add UP to the amount he said.. which I THINK was 2,000 mg. Please don't take my word on that number though. If you can.. check it on the web to be sure that is a proper amount. Also check with your doctor and/or pharmacist.
Sorry I can't say exactly... but the old brain isn't grabbing back that far right now.
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CD...
I am using the protocol daily right now.. but we do need to check to see if all products SHOULD be used daily.. or... if like many supplements you should take a break here and there.
I noted my herxes were more tolerable.. although I've never met anyone who LIKED a herx... including me. But they were shorter and lighter and that made it easier to bear.
I figured with all the inflammation I have.. and because I want to see if I can continue to lower my C4a tests... I will stay on it for right now.
But I must add.. be sure to check with your doctor about any questions you may have!!
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I sure hope it can help someone!!! Please let us know any comments.
Thanks for posting this though. I think a lot of us have spent so much money on things that don't help - it's helpful to hear firsthand accounts - especially when someone is desperate (like me;)
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Beverly
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 1271
posted
Thank you for sharing what helps you Tincup, and I am glad you are feeling better. Posts: 6641 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
OMG tinny, I am printing this out and running to the healthfood store! My pain has been no less than a 7 or 8 for months.... even pain meds don't take it down that much!!!!! Thank you so much for the info.... GOD I hope it helps me.... thank you thank you thank you!
Posts: 151 | From ohio | Registered: May 2007
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GOOD question!!! I should have explained... but forgot... so I am glad you asked! I like the non-citrus brand because it doesn't have the added Vitamin C in it like the others do.
Thanks!! So the non citrus just doesn't have any Vitamin C? Quercetin can be found in apples, grapes , teas, onions, and even soy. I was just trying to find out what's in the Quercetin supplement. I have thyroid issues and didn't want to try it if it has soy in it.
Thanks!!
Kathy
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
Should you avoid wobenzyme if you are on heparin?
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Tailz...
The quercetin seems to help me when I get that "buzzed" feeling all over like I have leaned up against the air filter motor on a fish tank. That 1/2 anxious and 1/2 internal shaky feeling. That feeling usually comes about when I'm on meds and is not dangerous... just totally distracting and annoying.
I hope it helps you. Do lettuce no!!!
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Beverly,
Always a smile to see YOU! As you know best... my goal is to try to relieve some of the nasty that comes with this stinking disease... for me and others.
I hope it works!
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Meg... you said..
"Now--Just how did you know I was suffering from inflammation right now and needed this advice--??"
Simple- dear lady... (NOTE- That is simple..... DEAR Lady.. NOT... simple-dear, lady.)
~smile~
I knew because of Georgia.
I had YOU on my mind! Georgia on my mind!
Ok.. that is pretty close to MEG on my mind... isn't it? Anyhow... and boy oh boy am I "getting" you today.. hehehe
Hope it helps! And be sure to give it some time to work... and let us know the results!!!
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Tutu.. yes I agree! Take magosteen or the supplements.. whatever works for YOU! As we know.. nothing we have come up with works for everyone!!! But if you don't TRY some of these things.. and let others know what works for YOU so we can help them... folks will miss the chance to get possible relief.
Kinda like the advise.. "HOLD the MAYO!" when we don't want folks to get ____________.. ah.. burned... by going to the Mayo Clinic for Lyme disease.
And tutu... tanks for the list of stuff you posted. VERY interesting!
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Jaime..
Giggle giggle... Your excitment got me excited! BUT.. I do want to say this again... for everyone's benefit...
Please check with your doctor before trying anything I mention... or others mention. And for Pete's sake.. yes, poor old Pete again...
Don't be telling the doctor AFTER you start taking the stuff that Tincup told me to do it. They REALLY don't like that explanation!!
But of course, now that I think about it... if it works REALLY well for you... and you are feeling better..
Please DO mention my name! HA!
BUT.. if it doesn't work.. just remember.. my name is really Lymetoo.
hee haw
Please please please let us know if you think it helps you... or not. I NEED some feedback from all the guinea pigs here! Not just my own results! Otay?
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Aiden... I can't say what it is made of cause I really don't know. But it is suppose to be something found in food.. which thankfully you let us know about with your list!
I HAVE looked it up in the past and researched it well... as I do with anything I even think of taking.. but just don't remember off the top of my deeply pitted prune head that answer... as it has been a long while ago since I checked it out... almost two days, I think?
Nah... it was years ago that I checked it out. ~smile~
But I encourage everyone to always read, research... and check with doctors and pharmacists before taking anything.
And like Julia Roberts said... when she is standing next to the bed in the movie "Pretty Woman"... and pulls out something from the top of her boot ... and offers Richard Gere his choice from an assortment of plastic wrappers... and states...
"I'm a safety kinda gal!"
Well, I am too.
So do check with the doctor. But leave off the little side remark about that movie... ha.... ok?
And yes... the "non-citrus" doesn't have any added vitamin C .. like some brands do... and it is from a non-citrus source.
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I am ANXIOUS for feed back from folks. Don't think for a minute this is the BIG or ONLY answer to all your problems.. please. I don't want to get anyone's hopes up that this will "for sure" work for them.
It is just something.. like my "tea recipe" ... that I've tried to work on and experiment with that has the ability to help me and some others too.
And from what I see here... we need all the help we can get!
posted
***And like Julia Roberts said... when she is standing next to the bed in the movie "Pretty Woman"... and pulls out something from the top of her boot ... and offers Richard Gere his choice from an assortment of plastic wrappers... and states...
"I'm a safety kinda gal!"
Well, I am too. ***
Hmmmm, interesting comparison, Tinny!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Kelmo.. sorry I was typing and didn't see your post till now.
You said..
"Should you avoid wobenzyme if you are on heparin?"
That I do NOT know.. and is why I stressed checking with your doctor before trying anything. Everyone is on different things and everyone is different. I can't and won't suggest anything for anyone to do unless their doctor approves it.
I would also double check with the pharmacist as they have better and usually more updated resources to check out potential problems... and I like to be sure.
And personally I would also check it out for myself by researching it.
You know.. the safety kinda gal that I am.
You said.. "What does the sudafed do?"
For me it relieves some of the pressure in my head.. especially against the "brain swelling" feeling that comes from well.. brain swelling.
The Sudafed- 12 hour- non-drowsy formula doesn't make me sleepy.. so I can function.. and is normally used to "dry up" fluid/congestion in sinuses.. as a decongestant... so I figured it could dry up the excess fluid and relief the pain, inflammation and pressure too. It works for me.
I use the 12 hour caplett so I don't have multiple pills to take. If in bad shape I may take one at night too... which helps me.
But I've taken the Sudafed every day for years now.. as one of my two "staples". I tried using it on/off.. but it made such a difference from one day to the next.. I just decided finally I would NOT suffer that head pain and taking one pill a day was worth it.
My other staple is ibprofen.. which I have been on nearly every day for 15 years. With all the damage I have had due to untreated Lyme and coinfections... I really can't go without.
And yes.. it can sometimes bother people's tummies.. but knock on wood... I've never had that problem. And it also doesn't "knock me out" like the drugs I was prescribed for pain... so I can function and be in less pain.
But sometimes even that combination isn't "enough" to get all of the inflammation.
By adding these three little things mentioned above.. which I am the BIGGEST baby about taking ANY meds... it makes a nice difference in my life.
I am really hoping the C4a test will continue to show improvement and the readings will come down further... as I have nothing but my personal experience to base this on... and it would be WONDERFUL to know this could help others and we could have lab results showing improvement.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Hey Memphis, Tennessee.. such a fun place to be,
Interesting you said that.
I also took the Wobenzyme years ago before being told of this other deal... and I also took it the way you are suppose to.. on an empty stomach. It didn't seem to really help me either... so I gave it up. Too many pills and too much money.
BUT.. maybe it is the combo this time that makes it work? Or the querectin with it? Or the vitamin E too?
I don't know?
But this time I AM seeing results. And I am thankful for it.
Thanks for sharing this! Inflammation driving me crazy right now, so will def give this a try!
Just wondering though do you take the Wobenzyme, Quercetin and Vit E with or without food? Or does that matter?
Elaine
Posts: 261 | From Herx-ville!! | Registered: Aug 2006
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Tincup
Thanks for sharing this info on these supps & glad to hear they are helping you
Is it good to take these for overall inflammation even if you aren't herxing?
Just curious
Thanks again Tincup dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
I had to take Quercetin & Bromaelain during treatment. Here's some additional info I dug up on it........ Please read the abx contradictions:
Quercetin:
"A bioflavonoid with antioxidant properties. Quercetin may help antibiotics work more effective by enhancing the cellular concentrations. Querctin and bromelain (a pinapple enzyme)are usually compunded togeather as bromelain is reported to enhance the absorption of Quercetin. Typical compounds contain 333mg Quercetion for every 100 mg bromelain.
Avoid use of Quercetin while receiving treatment with Levaquin or Cipro. Concomitant use may reduce the antibiotics effectiveness.
Vitamin C is known to enhance the antioxidant activity ot Quercetin.
Indications: Improves effectiveness of antibitoics, stimulates immune function, has anti-inflammatory and anti-histamine properties."
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
The quercetin we have has calcium in it so make sure to check so you don't combine it with your antibiotics.
Posts: 984 | From San Diego | Registered: Nov 2006
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
tincup-
i could not find any Quercetin on the website you mentioned that was labeled "non-citrus"
i also could not find any Quercetin by "soloray"
there's one by solgar but that doesnt specify that its non citrus either.
please help!!
thanks
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
Tincup -- Sorry to rain on your parade, but Hubby was on Vitamin C, quercetin and Vitamin E and his C4a test result was 18,000.
The quercetin does keep him from sneezing when he eats so I do think it is helpful.
Dana -- looks like I need to research why he should not take quercetin with Levaquin.
He can't take Wobenzyme when he has gastritis -- which seems to hardly ever heal.
Tincup -- I hate to be a skeptic, but in my opinion the doxy is probably what lowered your C4a. The C4a is an immune system marker and doesn't really measure inflammation per se.
And a word of warning about Wobenzyme -- don't think that if a little does good more will do better.
Back when we knew nothing about Lyme a chiropractor in Kansas put hubby on 11 Wobenzyme 3 times a day (on an empty stomach) along with an herbal Lyme formula. Hubby had had no antibiotics at that point.
He ended up in the ER where he was unconscious for 15 hours one day. The only good thing about that experience was that he ended up getting his one and only positive PCR test for Lyme.
I definitely think Wobenzyme can make antibiotics more effective.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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-------------------- pingpong Posts: 361 | From At the Pingpong Tournament | Registered: Oct 2007
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
I would be in a really bad place if it wasn't for my ibuprofen. I was concerned about my usage and talked with my primary just two weeks ago.
He said you must treat inflammation all over your body. Don't worry about ibuprofen...in fact tests are showing it really helps people from developing dementia type symptoms.
I was relieved!!! lol I sure don't need dementia on top of brain fog. All kidding aside, it is one way I can tell if I'm needing anti-inflammatory meds such as ibuprofen.
Brain fog, head pressure, total body achey is helped by ibuprofen. I buy the cheaper ones 500 ct Walgreen brand. Last week it was on sale for $8.99.
500 ct should last me awhile.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Long term use of Ibuprofen may have some adverse effects.
I once met someone who screwed up her kidneys by taking too much & could never use over-the-counter pain meds again.
You may want to keep this in mind.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
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