posted
To anyone with info on this unfortunate thing I did to myself in the late 90's... I was paranoid about getting Lyme disease so when the vaccination came out, I quickly went to my PCP and got the shots...
not only did I get the shot ONCE, I went back for the second "recommended" dose in 6 months... and my memory fails to tell me whether I went back for the 3rd and final dose...
Of course, I kick myself hard nowadays for having done such a stupid thing!... I paid HUNDREDS of dollars for the shots... did I infect myself by getting the vaccines??
I have lots of questions and concerns, but here's the first to tackle: the "normal" Lyme test would be a false positive for me... will the test via Igenex (not sure of the spelling?) accurately diagnose me?
[ 08. August 2007, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: sb1973 ]
Posts: 9 | From Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
. The only band that would be in question would be band 31 on the WB, as this is OSP A ( Outer surface protien A) The vaccine was made from OSP A I believe Igenex makes note of this in their instructions.
Posts: 789 | From CT, | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Al: . The only band that would be in question would be band 31 on the WB, as this is OSP A ( Outer surface protien A) The vaccine was made from OSP A I believe Igenex makes note of this in their instructions.
I think that is correct....so if you have other bands showing up....It's Lyme.
And really....either way you could probably benefit from treatment, whether the Lyme symptoms are from the vaccine or from a bite.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
How does the vaccine cause symptoms? It doesn't look like the injected the whole organism.
Posts: 310 | From TN | Registered: Jan 2007
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david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662
posted
You can not be infected with lyme with the vacine. This is pretty clear and the statements of the vacine developer in this regard is correct. (there is however a dark side as I will describe later).
Can't get it from the vacine?
Here's why- The vacine causes the body to make an antibody to a particular part of the outer skin of the lyme bacteria. It is not a "live" vacine, in other words it is not made from living (or dead) bacteria. The bacteria skin fragment (OSPA) was seperated and cloned. the body recognizes the fragment as foreign and then makes an antibody that will attack it. The antibody programming stays around for a long long time.
Interestingly, the antibodies are supposed to kill the bacteria while inside the tick, in otherwords, as soon as the tick bites you, the bacteria will be attacked (this is a far as I remember).
Here's the bad news......
Now why did some people end up with severe arthritis?
It turns out that the OSPA fragment that the body is forced to make antibodies against looks something like conenctive tissue in SOME people. There is a genetic test to see who is suspectable. This DNA fragement is also commonly encountered with other arthritic conditions (this is how steere knew where to look). The condition is permanent but is not Lyme a lyme infection, instead it is lyme antibody induced disease.
Live vs not live?
The only way to be infected with a vacine is via the use of a Live vacine. Live vacines are an old way of introducing immunity to a disease. Basically you take a very small amount of a weakeneded version (or sometimes a dead version)of a disease. Expose the body to it and the body makes antobodies that will kill it. When the person later encounters the disease, they are already programmed to destroy it on sight.
So why no real lyme vacine? The problem with lyme is that lyme changes it share and color so that the immune system can't see it. This happens over time and depends on the disease vector and what the animal resoirvoir was. Basically the longer lyme resides in a host, the longer it has to tune its self to not be detectable by the immune system. Lyme has a large number of plasmids. the plasmids are sort of like cans of spray paint that can get pulled out and used to change the color (and shape) of the covering on the bacteria. With a large number of them, the bacteria has lots differnt paint colors to choose from. Eventually, the right color gets picked and the immune system response is minimal.
This effect also occurs with other borrelia, like the one that causes relapsing fever.
If you have had the vacine and have no ill effects, if it where me, I wouldn't worry about it. In worse case you could get checked for the known genetic suspetability issue ~ it affects about 30% of the people
I think I got the above info right... Friendly corrections are welcome, hostile ones are not.
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
Great info! I wonder if the 30% that have this genetic susceptibility could be those living near or exposed to an excess of electromagnetic fields or other sources of radiation (cell phone towers, antennas, nuclear power plants, etc...)?
I've been reading that artificial EMFs cause DNA to mutate and actually modify genes.
Just wondering if some neat little (shared) combination of germs/parasites and EMF exposure forms the basis of what scientists are currently calling 'genetic predisposition'???
This would explain why some people with the 'genes' for a particular disease never come down with it. Less EMF exposure?
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posted
Thanks to everyone who responded to my concern about the Lyme vaccine!! My mind is more at ease now after reading the posting about the science behind that particular vaccine.
I do not appear to manifest any Lyme symptoms except for recurrent bouts of tiredness, but that's been the story of my life, even prior to any Lyme inoculations. I have needed to take naps throughout my entire life.
If, perhaps, I had been infected with Lyme prior to receiving the Lyme vaccine, could the vaccine have helped me retroactively? ... i.e. Would the antibodies created in reaction to the vaccine have killed any pre-existing Lyme bacteria???
I've always thought of vaccines as only being able to prevent future infection.
Science courses in college really didn't cover this material well... or perhaps I am just much more inquisitive these days... lol...
Posts: 9 | From Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2007
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
I believe band 34 was also used to create the vaccine (osp A).
You can research Lymerix on this forum and there are many discussions
And even specific support groups for people who have received this vaccine.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
What happened to u after receiving lyme vaccine ?
quote:I do not appear to manifest any Lyme symptoms except for recurrent bouts of tiredness, but that's been the story of my life, even prior to any Lyme inoculations. I have needed to take naps throughout my entire life.
So... What is the problem ?
Posts: 636 | From Wroclaw, Poland | Registered: Mar 2004
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david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662
posted
Beware of vacines. There are many instances of unforseen consequences. This is partuclarly bad in the veterinary field as they do not have the same approval process as for people.
FYI, does anyone know where the word vacine came from? It is italian in origin.....and had to do with cows and boats....
Also on the bouts of fatigue. I'm going off the top of my head here but did you ever read up on mycoplasma fermentans... There are many rumours going around that some human vaccines were contaminated with it. I has been implicated in a number of symptoms but nothing definative.
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
tracybillings, It looks like the domain for actionlyme has been sold and is an advertising website now.
I hope the site that was there is still around somewhere. I always meant to go back and look at it more fully.
Based on what I've read from various sources about the vaccine, it does not seem possible to be infected from the vaccine. Can you explain why you think differently please?
I've wondered if the post-lyme/autoimmune hypothesis came about partly because of the autoimmune dysfunction caused by the lyme vaccine. I was not involved in the lyme community at the time though and don't know if that is part of where the theory comes from or not.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by TerryK: tracybillings,http://www.actionlyme.org/ its dot org It looks like the domain for actionlyme has been sold and is an advertising website now.
I hope the site that was there is still around somewhere. I always meant to go back and look at it more fully.
Based on what I've read from various sources about the vaccine, it does not seem possible to be infected from the vaccine. Can you explain why you think differently please?
I've wondered if the post-lyme/autoimmune hypothesis came about partly because of the autoimmune dysfunction caused by the lyme vaccine. I was not involved in the lyme community at the time though and don't know if that is part of where the theory comes from or not.
Terry
.org
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wrotek: [QB] What happened to u after receiving lyme vaccine ?
Whoops, sorry about not explaining my possible Lyme vaccine related issues... I was diagnosed with asthma around the same time I received the vaccines... I have had several severe bouts of bronchitis since then too... maybe mere coincidences...
I also have really bad allergies nowadays... and I have adult-onset acne...
some people have suggested that my asthma, acne, and tiredness could be Lyme-related... that the asthma and acne might be due to secondary infections made possible by the presence of Lyme bacteria...
When I originally posted my concerns about the vaccine, I was worried that the vaccine had Lyme bacteria in it... that's the only kind of vaccine that I'd learned about in school/college...
It does not sound like I could have possibly contracted Lyme from the vaccine since it only contained outer surface proteins, which is a relief...
I could very well have contracted Lyme before ever being vaccinated, or after the vaccines' efficacy wore off... If so, then I could get Lyme treatment and stop taking all my asthma meds...
I have never gotten tested for Lyme because conventional tests would have resulted in false positives... I did not know about Igenex until recently...
Posts: 9 | From Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2007
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Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
posted
I think the vaccine did infect people. Isn't that why it was pulled, cause it backfired?
Hubby had 31++++.....with his Igenex test. First thing Dr C asked was if hubby had taken the vaccination. I told him, no, hubby got his naturally.
I thought from what I had read, the vaccine didn't work as planned. ??
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
From what I understand after reading everything on this posting and elsewhere, the Lyme vaccine was discontinued because some people ended up with arthritis due to the vaccine-induced antibodies targeting proteins in certain joints.
Posts: 9 | From Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2007
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david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662
posted
Some people comfude Lyme infection with Lyme symptoms. They are different. Lymerix gives about 30% of the poeple permanent Lyme symptoms. It does NOT give them Lyme disease.
Steere et.al. contend that "post lyme" ie lyme symtoms after treatment are permanent lyme symtoms that are activated in a way similar to what lymerix does. No doubt this may be the case with some people. These symtproms, according to all published accounts that I have seen are joint related issues.
Ilads contends that a majority of the people with persistent lyme symptoms are due to refractory infection and that the infection is what cases the ongoing cyclically appearing symptoms. The Ilads theory is easily verifyable.....If treatment is stopped then relapse will occur if the infection is still present.... Apparently this happens in a lot of cases.
So what do the IDSA people do in case of relapse.... they never find relpase because they drop you as soon as the intial treatment is over.( I know this first hand by the way)
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
It has been a long time since I was on Lymenet. I took the vaccines in 1999. This is what happened to me. My doctor said I most likely already had Lyme disease. My immune system was able to keep it under control, so I had no symptoms. After the shots the Lyme took control and my symptoms went wild. After years of abx I got rid of most symptoms.
Problem is I also had the gene HLA-DR2 which is one of the types that are affected. It triggered auto-immune disease which has many symptoms like Lyme disease. My main symptoms now are neuropathy with a lot of pain, muscle and joint pain and fatigue. It has got worst over the last few years. Last year I took IVIG treatments for 5 days a month for 3 months. Most of my symptoms all went away or greatly improved. I felt like I did before taking the shots. After the IVIG treatments my symptoms started to come back slowly. I will always be thankful for the 6 or 8 months of good health that I enjoyed.
The IVIG puts millions and millions of antibodies from other peoples blood in to you and it really helped me. I stopped because the treatments run $40,000.00 per month. My insurance paid and has been good all during my lyme treatments in the past so I do not want to take a chance on problems in the future. I know other people that were not helped by the IVIG treatments. I don't know why.
If you took the Lymerix shots and have found any treatment that helps please let us know. I am thankful that I found out what the Lymerix shots do to people because I know there are thousands of people out there with symptoms but did not tie there symptoms to the shots. When your symptoms start months after taking the shots, most people would not realize it took that long for the shots to start there evil work. Hope this helps someone and gives a little more understanding on what the Lymerix shots have did to people.
GP
Posts: 105 | From Rolla, Missouri, USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
GP's experience is very telling. The problem with the vaccine isn't just that it can trigger autoimmune problems in genetically susceptible people - it can also bring out a latent infection, something the establishment hasn't talked about.
Studies from Steere and others show that many people are walking around with subclinical Lyme infection (infected but don't have symptoms) - at least the same number as have symptomatic Lyme, maybe much more. So some think the vaccine, by stimulating the immune response against OspA, can trigger an all-out war with a latent infection that the body previously had under control.
An LLMD told me he thought this was the main problem because so many of the people he was seeing who got sick after the vaccine had other bands on western blot in addition to OspA.
Posts: 621 | From US | Registered: Jun 2006
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