posted
I know this has probably been asked before, but I'm curious to know why my doctor has started me on orals before IV's.
I seem to have the world's most sensitive stomach-- all the orals I've tried make me barf constantly, with overwhelming, completely debilitating nausea.
I have only been in treatment for 2.5 months (for Lyme and Bart). I think I have been infected for about a year.
I have lost about 20 pounds since starting treatment and I was already pretty small to begin with. I probably keep about 500 calories down a day, if that.
Because of all my stomach issues, I can't even take supplements because I lose them within minutes.
So, I'm wondering:
Do LLMD's only use IV's for cases that are more serious (i.e. infections of longer duration) than mine??
Last time I asked, my LLMD told me that IV's were not necessary for me. Is this because bart can only be treated with orals, or am I mistaken?
I'm wondering if IV's could allow me to avoid some of the vomiting/nausea. Have people noticed this??
Has anyone had stomach issues even on IV's??
I imagine it's a more potent treatment so the herxes are more severe. Is this true?
Thanks for your help!
Posts: 390 | From Oakland, CA | Registered: May 2007
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
some oral antibiotics I tolerate more than others.-Doxy makes me nauseaus (sp) but Ceftin is fine with me.
I can now tolerate flagyl better now that I'm in third year of treatment.
I can tolerate small doses of oral minocycline.
Ater a year or more of orals I was put on IV Rocephin-following a spect scan of brain. I like the IV-after I got over the anxiousness of getting picc line.
Some people do only orals. Your doctor may suggest a different oral for you that won't be so hard on your stomach.
He does know about your continual vomiting doesn't he/she? i don't seem to have a problem with supplements.
lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4622
posted
I think a lot of LLMD's go to IV as a last resort. Have you told your Dr. about the vomiting? Perhaps a change in meds might be in order.
You also might want to look into anti-fungals. IMHO a lot of us were yeast disasters just on the edge before we got sick, and the oral abx just make a bad situation nastier.
Bartonella can invade the GI tract - I too had it and lost 47 lbs during/before dx and treatment.
Diflucan and oil of oregano helped tremendously. There's also a wonderful supplement out there called
SuperCritical Omega 7 by New Chapter. (Not Omega 3, 6, or 9). It's made of Sea buckthorn, and helps rebuild the lining of the gi tract and mucous membranes. I tell you, this stuff was a LIFESAVER!!! It heals leaky gut, which happens when the bad flora get out of control.
Take it 20 minutes before eating. You can take up to 4 a day. You WILL see a difference in 2 days.
You can get it at Vitamin Shoppe - www.vitaminshoppe.com. They usually also stock it in the store, but often don't realize they have it. I believe www.vitacost.com also carries it.
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
posted
Our LLMD said that it was his experience that the IV ABX worked better if the orals were used first.
Also, said that the orals may be all the treatment necessary, just depends on the patient.
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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What orals are known to be easier on the stomach? I know Doxy has a bad rep so I haven't tried it. That's why I opted for Mino instead.
How long does one typically go on IV's? Just a few weeks at a time, and then back to orals?
Posts: 390 | From Oakland, CA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Ellie, in my experience mino, while easier on the stomach than doxy, isn't as easy as oral cephalosporins like omnicef, or penicillins. Bicillin injections might also be a solution. IVs were easy on my stomach but I didn't have major problems on orals either.
The other thing to keep in mind is that LLMDs disagree quite a bit about how and when to use IVs, for lots of reasons. Given your severe stomach issues, another LLMD might have a different opinion.
Other thoughts on orals vs. IV: One issue is that there's a tradeoff between getting into the brain and getting into the cells. IV rocephin gets into the brain very well, but doesn't get into the cells to kill whatever lyme is hiding there - just does a fantastic job at killing lyme out in the open, in brain/cns.
Oral mino gets into the brain - not as good as IV rocephin but to some extent - and DOES get into the cells. Maybe why a number of people here herx even worse on mino than on IV rocephin, myself included. I heard an LLMD say at a conference that intracellular drugs tend to produce worse herxes.
Some people also herx as bad or worse on oral cyst-busting drugs (flagyl, tindimax) compared to IVs.
This all makes me wonder if certain orals are more effective in some neuro cases in the long run. (Also because rocephin chases spirochetes into cyst form, while mino doesn't.) Relapses with IV rocephin have been noted on this board fairly often.
My *hunch* is that IVs are best for severe but not as longstanding cases, while neuro cases that go undiagnosed for years might need more intracellular and cyst-busting drugs to deal with all the bacteria that's hiding - perhaps along with IVs at some point.
Curious about others' thoughts on this?
Posts: 621 | From US | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Very interesting, LD fighter, thanks for all the info.
I don't know much about Bicillin shots but would love to hear from others about their experiences.
Maybe IV Rocephrin wouldn't be that good for me, then, as I don't have very severe brain fog yet. Maybe I should focus more on a cellular attack.
Posts: 390 | From Oakland, CA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Ellie, I can relate. My stomach seems to be getting worse. Stress alone is a pain. Trial and error. I guess we'll just have to stress to our doctors how much our stomach hurts. I'm just worried he'll back off on the dosage I need.
Posts: 18 | From No. Va. | Registered: Aug 2007
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