merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
I had some questions about Babesia. I tested negative for all coinfections through quest. I am still worried about Babs as I have many of the symptoms.
For those of you that have tested positive, did you have Hemolytic anemia and other suspicious lab tests?
I am just wondering if you can have normal cbc/chem panels and still have babs? All my routine labs have been normal.
Any info is appreciated.
Melissa
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Beverly
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Member # 1271
posted
Hi Melissa,
I tested postive for Babesia with the FISH test at IGeneX and I am anemic, my son is also anemic, but had negative test for Babesia.
I don't know the answer to your question..my guess is..(and I am not a doc) that it is very possible to have normal labs. I hope others will reply who know for certain.
Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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My ferritin level is low...before I got diagnosed with Lyme another Doctor thought that
anemia was my problem....I started taking liquid iron and tested about 6 months
later and my ferritin levels were even LOWER!Stumped the doc......now I assume the babesia was enjoying a HUGE feast...
I got the Babesia panel from IGenex and it all came back neg....my Lyme doc thinks I have it anyways from my symptoms...
babesia comes out during the full moon...a good time to really blast the buggers...says my doctor... I'm taking Artemisinin, Red Root, Bonset Tea, and Mepron...for Babs...have not started Mepron yet...don't like the look of the liquid, but gonna try it I guess....
hope this helped....
much love, fawne
-------------------- Energy flows where attention goes~ Posts: 302 | From Kauai | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I'm anemic, tested negative for babs, but my doctor still thinks I have it. Not sure..
-------------------- "One day at a time"
Current: -1.2 IM bicillin three times a week -1.25 IV Vancomycin every day -IV glutathione and IM B12 -Byron White since Jan. 2011 -ALA, Yasko protocal, Adapten-All, thyrosol, Pekano, phosphalipid exchange, probiotics, oregano... Posts: 390 | From FLORIDA | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
I pretty much had normal lab tests and this was when I was at my sickest. I tested neg. for all co-infections, but do have babs. My opinion is
if you think you have it and are showing symptoms then you probably do. For my experience the tests are not very good. The best way to find out is treat for it. When I started
malarone I herxed really bad. If your llmd won't treat you for it then find someone who will. You won't get better until it is gone,
and it can be tough to get rid of.
Posts: 323 | From Michigan | Registered: Sep 2006
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Julz
Unregistered
posted
can anyone give me an idea of the differences between bart symptoms and babs symptoms...please!
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quote:Originally posted by KauaiGoddess: have not started Mepron yet...don't like the look of the liquid, but gonna try it I guess....
You don't like the look of it? Just wait till you TASTE it!!!
I always test normal for hemoglobin ... but I've always supplemented with iron because it made me feel better, so I don't know what those tests would show with no iron.
I tested negative for babs, but have night sweats, air hunger and heart palps, so got a clinical diagnosis.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Beverly
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 1271
posted
Hi Julz,
This is a Bart symptom list by Liz:
"The symptoms can be interchangeable with Lyme, and even worse, they can be partially suppressed by Lyme drugs".
Without any treatment, bart begins as a relapsing fever that has neurological side effects: disorientation, mood changes, difficulty with reading, concentration, mild attention deficit disorder.
As it progresses, you get splitting headaches, swollen lymph nodes, sore throats, shin splints, body aches, severe neurological disturbances, severe ADD, insomnia, extreme fatigue, scratchy eyes, thyroid problems, blood seeping continuously from your nose, and eventually psychosis. Yes, you read that right.
Here is the Babesia symptom list by Tincup...I think Alig is working on a new one?
Babesiosis symptoms include:
Fatigue * Arthralgias* Myalgia* Drenching sweats* Headaches* Emotional lability* Depression* Dark urine* Splenomegaly* Dizziness* Nausea and vomiting* Cough* Dyspnea* Fever* Chills* Hepatosplenomegaly* Jaundice* Malaise* Shortness of breath* Bleeding tendencies, bruising* Thrombocytopenia* Hemoglobinuria* Hyperesthesia* Pulmonary edema* Encephalopathy* Low to normal range leukocyte counts* Possible elevated levels of dehydrogenase, bilirubin, transaminase* Anorexia***
Approximately 25%- 66% of Babesia patients are known to be co-infected with Lyme disease. These symptoms may continue for long periods of time, decrease, then return. A low Babesiosis titer (IgG) often indicates a chronic infection.
An acute or current infection may show a higher reading on the IgM test initially. There are over 100 species of Babesia in the United States but only ONE or TWO species are currently checked by commercial labs.
Hope this helps.
Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
Thanks for everyones help. I find it very confusing to differentiate Lyme symptoms from all the rest! Gosh I have a lot of bart symptoms too. My LLMD does not focus on coinfections very much, plus I tested negative.
I might ask my primary to test me again for coinfections this week. If I have been on meds for several months for Lyme (currently Biaxin and Plaq) will it make the Co's easier to find?
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
Dear Merry,
Those tests for co-infections just aren't that accurate.
I had a negative Fish via Igenex. You should have seen the babs herx I have had on malarone.
Trust your instinct and your LLMD.
I had so many babesia and bartonella symptoms.
I know my LLMD didn't even bother to test me for bartonella....just treated for it.
Hang in there.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I have been always negative for babs (Igenex,MDL,FISH) despite having all the sx. Regular blodwork normal also.But always have been doing great once I'm treated...remember there is I think 13 strain of babs and only test for 2 or 3 strains currently. My strain is one that doens't have a test
Posts: 983 | From The sky | Registered: Feb 2005
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Julz
Unregistered
posted
Hey Beverly,
Thanks very much for the list of symptoms for Babs and Bart...
Merry,
I am also currently taking Biaxin and Plaq. Do you take anything else?
I test positive for Lyme...even according to CDC standards..but always test neg for co's...even though I have all the symptoms...definitely a postive clinical dx, and (I guess) I do tx for everything, because I have been on tx for 2and a half years now...and sorry to say still really sick! I have had lots of ups and downs...this past year since my (best, Dr. B) LLMD closed his practice been on a big down. Still hoping for a miracle!!!
Thanks for everyone's input...it really helps keep the faith!
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merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
It is so crazy we have to deal with all this BS about bad tests and all the rest.
I really dont know if my llmd will tx me for co's. Not too sure. I may ask my PCP/ID doc to test me again. He is not willing to tx me on a clinical diagnosis.
I just find it hard to believe I only have Lyme. what is the percentage of people with TBI that only have Lyme?
To those of you who were anemic, how anemic are/were you? My Hematocrit is 36. Normal is 35+ at quest.
Julz- Those are the only Lyme/TBI meds I take. I take a bunch of other meds for the symptoms.
I am happy to share that with you if you want. I have only been on Biaxin and Plaq for one month. I have been in treatment for 5 months now.
Thanks everyone. Melissa
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Health
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Member # 6034
posted
Hello,
I had VERY odd babesia symptoms, and would never have thought babesia was causing this based on what others say are the typical babesia symptoms as well as what the LLMD's say they are.
I had light sensitivity, I became VERY physically ill from light, I could not go anywhere near light because my heart would race, my throat would swell, I would shake and most likely would have
DIED had I been exposed to light for too long. My LLMD thought because I started to get WORSE while in lyme treatment and had never been treated for babesia, that we should try treating it.
I also started to get EMF sensitive, very very sensitive. NO TV because of babesia, and minimal computer because of babesia.
So once treating babesia, I could watch TV again, and slowly light started to get better. However still had to treat lyme later to help with light, but it was the babesia that had to be treated to get the light better.
It has been simply a horrid nightmare because NO one knew what was causing what.
I was told that Babesia hides the lyme, this is true, for me, once the babesia was killed, I then herxed much much more on lyme antibiotics.
SO, be aware not your typical symptoms can cause some of these coinfections, Dr B writes about this, not your typical symptoms can be present when multi tick infections are in you.
Happened to me.
I then had to treat lyme after. I was SO sick, I repeat so sick, and believe woudl have died because of the combo of Lyme and babesia.
extremely ill from babesia and lyme. and it was from my own researching on here and with the LLMD that I am alive.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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hardynaka
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Member # 8099
posted
Trish, it's sooo funny that you mention the EMF sensitivity due to babs. I start to realize I'm much less sensitive again, and true, it seems my babs IS GONE again. Could it be a coincidence? Thanks for saying, I'll write this down.
Hopefully I won't get babs again, a 3rd time will be too much!! But just in case...
I got sick with babs twice, and twice I had your same symptoms: light sensitivity, strong that I puke with light (worst was sun light, but it could have been even artificial light).
Everything is now past.
Babs do cause very bad symptoms, it does make you feel sick, crap, tired, foggy etc. Borrelia doesn't do that to the extent babs did to me.
It also happened to me twice: borrelia surfaced once babs was knocked down. This time, I even got an EM rash the exact time I stopped babs treatment after I got symptomless.
I never got an EM rash so far from a tick bite, that was a real proof of borrelia coming up again, like it was taking place from babs.
Now I'm treating borrelia cysts, I guess I don't have many active borrelia for the moment. And now fungi are coming up!!
It's a real ballet of critters!
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Melissa, why waiting for these unprecise tests??
Just treat the babs. If you start feeling better (or worse, due to herxes!!), you'll know it.
I never had any positive tests. I knew it was babs (or anything like malaria) when I took Riamet and felt better almost immediately, after a huge night sweat and explosions in my head. 3 days later I was another person, 4 months of constant night sweats just vanished.
It was Riamet that convinced me I had a parasite that reacted with antimalarials, which I assumed, babesia!
It came back after that, again and again. But I knew I had it!!
Babs' die-off cause awful herxes. I mean, AWFUL. You'll probably know if you have the critter after taking babs' killers.
If you have to wait a lot to get positives to treat, you may wait forever.
Just my opinion of course! Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I am treating babs-and noticing after 4 months my symptoms are changing-do you think it is because my lyme symptoms are coming out, now that babs is knocked down?
Posts: 561 | From eastcoast | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Out of 4 Babs tests - 2 pos. Only 2 were the FISH from IgeneX (1 was when 1st diagnosed - neg - maybe from LabCorp)1 Pos from Bowen -Then a pos from FISH - then later (most recent) during a relapse - a neg from IgeneX FISH. Luckily LLMD treated clinically & much improvement. Now starting Bruhner's route. Need to feel like I'm in charge of length of TX - sick of relapsing.
My bloodwork always comes back OK. I do not take iron in my vitamins - mostly cuz I hate the taste of it all day long.
Hardly ever sweats - but ALWAYS chills. Unless it's 90* I'm freezing. Funny thing - I'm warm for 1st time in long time by doing Ginsing & Gota Kola along w/ resvinatrol.
My feet which were always freezing cold are warm as toast now - my legs stopped aching 24/7.
Still have light sensitivity - but not to the extreme.
But-I have noticed some old Lyme symp's coming back to visit- that crunchy neck has made a rebound - haven't had that in several yrs. So I think the theory is correct that as u treat babs the lyme comes back out somewhat.
As bad as herxes are - it's great that we have them as a litness test. They give us information!
My typical Babs slamming goes like this - terrible herx the whole time (reguardless of if it's mepron, larium, or malarone) w/ tons of vertigo, jaw pain, and extremely tired (to the point of non-functioning.) Within a few weeks of stopping RX - MUCH overall improvement.
FYI in my personal experience - most tired on mepron/zith; worst headache on larium; easiest to tolerate, malarone;
I'm starting the crypto stuff Buhner recommends in a few weeks...Hope it's not as harsh as the rest, but I guess I'll soon know!
posted
I have a question. My LLMD is currently treating me for Lyme with 2 abx, plus I'm on something (can't remember off hand) for a 1 month trial for micoplasma pneumonia, then I go on Mepron for a month, because she believes I might have Babesia (waiting for Igenex results). My question is this. I've been on the abx for about 3 months, and nothing is changing. I MAY be getting worse, but hard to tell since I've been in pain for so long, I can't remember a "starting date" of the higher pain levels. I know the first day I went to LLMD I was suffering from high pain level. ANYWAY, my question is, should I be starting to feel any better after 3 months of abx? The mico drug hasn't seemed to change anything either. And then the Mepron... she has me on it for one month to start... once I start it, should I start noticing a difference quickly if it's working? And is it something you need to take for an extended period without any breaks?
Posts: 10 | From Lynchburg, VA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Unfortunately 3 months is a drop in the bucket. As far as treating mycoplasma, you can look at www.roadback.org a website for people with autoimmune disease. They believe that many autoimmune diseases are caused by mycoplasma and are treating with minocin and other antibiotics.
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