stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
last week my knees were killing me. i had stopped all lyme meds for 4-5 months without many side effects. was feeling pretty good.
couple weeks ago knees hurt so bad could not walk decided to try Mepron. Mepron worked next day but also made skin crawl to the point that zyrtec bid did not help.
stopped mepron.3 days knee pain returned.
started zithro and plaquenil, after 1 dose no knee pain. so now i now at least the pain is lyme related. zitro and plaquenil have kept my knee pain away for several days now. however, i started to herx. have not herxed in several years. feel like crap ,but knees are better. in bed last 2 days, bus hit me, no train yet.
so my observation is herxing probably from babs. knee pain probably from babs. and new brain fog probably from babs.
question: how long to treat for babs. this is the second time i treated for it. i guess babs doesn't go away with meds either??? have not read up to much on babs. i think even the creepy crawly skin reaction was a babs herx.
with joint pain gonew and herxing started, do i really need to go back on mepron??????
any help would be appreciated. now at least i can play tennis if i ever get out of bed!!!!!!lol
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
DocDave,
Have you ever tried Plaquenil without the abx? I'm wondering if your pain goes away because of the anti-inflammatory aspects of Plaquenil. Plaquenil reduces pain in RA patients, and I'm on it to reduce pain and stiffness in my hands.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
as a matter of fact, plaquenil was one of the meds i did not stop along with motrin.
i have had major knee problems for about 1.5 years
arthro on one knee artificial knee joint fluid replacement both knees in june
has not been good for quite some time, but was off many meds while having knee trouble.
even the orthopod did not know if it was lyme or just inflamation. kenalog shots have not helped either.
today just slept, feel like my skin is crawling, want to itch, but don't want to start a histamine cascade.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cave76: Isn't Kenolog a steroid?
I think it is...?
Babs is hard to kill off/out! I'd try another round of mepron and stop eating chocolate!! You probably have the yeasty beasties [hence the skin crawly thingy.]
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I'd recommend that you get the book by Dr. S.. There is one for physicians and one for patients. Outlines the top treatments, side effects, length of treatment etc... Great book and very helpful in understanding babs.
5 months is what Dr. B. typically treats according to the book. Babs lives in red blood cells so it takes 4 months for those to be replaced.
Hope you feel better soon.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
stymielymie babs should be treated for at least for 5 months.
Zithromax,Plaquenil and Mepron is a good regimen for it.
Would be good to add artemisia.
When my babs is out of control I even get the joint pains since the lyme try to resurface taking advantage of a weaken immune system caused by this co-infection.
In fact in the past my joint pains have gotten away by treating just the babs and not the lyme bacteria itself with other abx.
Good luck. the regimen that helped me at the beginning with my lyme arthritis was biaxin xl and plaquenil together with mepron.
Posts: 983 | From The sky | Registered: Feb 2005
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AZURE WISH
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 804
posted
Sorry your back in lyme land ... or babs land...
posted
well, be happy you got to remission because that means you are really close
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david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662
posted
Dave,
In regards to babesia, in my case I have relapsed with it a few time now. Relapse was pretty clear cut, thin smears clearly show the parasite, complete with the diagnostic cruciform inclusions.
Here is what I found.
On relapse - symtoms
joint pain is present. Not an aching or grabing (from swollen cartilage) pain that goes with lyme but rather severe pain on placing any stress on the joint. Usually siginficant enought so as not to be able to support any weight.
Muscle pain is present, again when placing muscle under stress. Also aching muscles, like they have been sprained.
All blood levels normal - CBC, liver (perhaps elevated bilirubin), urine, LDH levels all normal
Many free parasites seen in blood smear. During babesia relapse, the erythrocytes are unuaually fragile (the ones that are infected) and you will see quite a few that are broken open with the parasite(s) near the break.
Acute attacks of severe and profuse sweating, often at night and also during the day with no provocation. I did smears during severe sweats and not during sweats. The sweats see to be related to the number of free floating parasites.
If you centrifuge the whole blood, the parasites will accumulate at the top of the tube.. They appear to be quite numerous.
With the babesia relapse I at times feel really crappy. It hard to explain but its like a combination of being really tired, and feeling like you you have a flu, less the ENT issues. It feels like death is a better option.....(not suicide mind you, but rather a reflection of how bad it feels.)
The babesia drugs seems to kick in within a few days but it takes a lot longer to clear all the symptoms. The parasites take a very long time (months) to clear out of the erythrocytes.
I have experienced the above via 3 relapses now, as I have not been able to get rid of the infection. I am afraid I will be a lifer. At least I will not have a problem with malaria due to the prophylactic malaria drugs I have to take.
The above is my experience, results may vary.....
[ 28. August 2007, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: david1097 ]
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
I'm just taking ART for Babs. Did you mention that?
You've had this problem before. I told you what I do with the itchies- I scratch the he!! out of them. Haven't drawn blood yet.
Try hitting yourself with a fly swatter-then you don't feel the itching-just the stinging.
I'm also trying to be a pain in the butt to take your mind off your other miseries.
Beverly
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 1271
posted
Hi docdave,
Sorry to hear of your relapse, but I am glad that something is working for you and helping the pain. Hang in there.
Hugsss to all.. Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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savebabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9847
posted
My joint pain was mostly from lyme. The severe headaches and sweats were babs.
Maybe another round of babs meds with a twist of ceftin would help.
Feel better
Posts: 1603 | From ny | Registered: Aug 2006
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
dave, sorry to read how ill you are again; thought of you also because you werelooking to playing tennis again!
in spite of your pain, you rallied the troops for carol; that's a true friend .. putting their needs ahead of yours!
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Doc Dave, read more about babs. Don't consider yourself in remission yet.
If meds are working, you're lucky. Never stop treating babs until you're pretty sure it's gone, it keeps coming back and it's hard to eliminate it. Very persistent critter.
In my experience, once the big load goes out (which can be fast) you need treating it low profile to get cysts. They will be hidden, I got it twice and I can tell it, babesia hides and comes out again once we stop attacking it!
I THINK I got rid of the second recent re-infection, but I'm still knocking on wood. I'm not treating it for the moment.
Once the babs goes away, we feel so much better that we do feel like getting close to remission!! At least for me!
What can happen though, is that borrelia or other co-infections surface when babs falls down. Which is not bad, but you may have older symptoms surfacing.
Both times I had borrelia coming up again when the babs was finally knocked (I mean, I still hope my second babs is finally knocked). This time, I got even an EM rash after babs treatment was finished.
I never used drugs, except for artemisinin (whcih I consider like a drug, but it's only an extract). Only used herbs and microcurrent. My babs protocol is in the Buhner forum, if you're interersted.
Wish you very good luck!!
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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