Topic: WARNING: NEW KMT MACHINE: QUESTIONING BUSINESS PRACTICE, SERVICE VERY BAD
henson2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 463
posted
Please feel free to distribute.
You all may know and remember me as a long-time Lymenet poster, who has dealt w. effects of Lyme that was not diagnosed for 6 years. Since then I've used various modes of treatment, both LLMD- prescribed and into the integrative/ complementary realm.
I have been looking forward to receiving the new version of Dr. Klinghardt's KMT-24 machine, which will have new frequencies that include one for pain. My LLMD was very encouraging about its possibilities.
This is not a thread on alternative medicine in general or people's views on frequency treatment, but rather, I want to post a cautionary note about the new KMT machine (the updated version) which was supposed to come out in July.
In mid-July I was told by the company rep, Nancy, to expect the new version in 3 weeks, give or take a couple of days.
I waited and watched the mail. Last month, my LLMD, citing information she had recently obtained, indicated it was ready to be sent out, and she instructed me in its use.
PLEASE NOTE: I have learned from Nancy today (Sept. 6) that the new KMT machine will not be ready until January. The reason (and I quote) is that they need to "do testing" on it, which will take thru December.
In addition, Nancy stated that the company that had been manufacturing it would no longer be doing so, (she used the word "substandard" in this context) and so a new manufacturer had been chosen to make it.
Now all of this would have been disappointing, but *merely* disappointing, IF the following had not also happened:
1) no one informed patients of either delay: the first arrival date came and went and the company communicated nothing; and there was no notice about the new 5 month delay. (Even before learning of the January date, patients and providers waiting in July and August were still kept waiting for their supposed July-August delivery).
2) Nancy refused to give me the name of the manufacturer. ("Absolutely not, I'm not giving out any names.") [Why? Isn't that normal business practice? I was not threatening in my inquiry and specifically said that I wished to research the new manufacturer. Aren't most consumers allowed, even encouraged, to research the makers of products? What is secretive about this one?)
3) Nancy was understandably frustrated with the situation, but was rude and unreasonable in words and tone, and hung up on me mid-sentence. However frustrating the many calls coming in to inquire about the product's non-arrival, rude response and a hang-up is inappropriate customer service.
Any company that conducts business in this fashion is not getting my $1800. I have never in a lifetime encountered such a response from a company hoping to SELL a product.
I have notified my own LLMD both of the delay and of the response I rec'd from calling to ask why the machine had not yet arrived. (I had given my credit card info twice before, but it has not yet been charged).
I will not do business with this company.
The receptionist at my LLMD's office asked: "If they are still testing it, what about all the patients and doctors who bought the *first* version??" (i.e. the version from the manufacturer who proved unfit to make the second version).
I think doctors, all providers, and all Lyme patients, should be aware of this company's business practice.
Not to be notified in July and August was wrong; Nancy insisted that people were being notified as of now, but I am not sure that I believe that. You probably have to call to find out what is going on.
Very Sincerely, and with good wishes to everyone on the road to healing, henson
[ 06. September 2007, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: henson2 ]
Posts: 1067 | From East Coast | Registered: Dec 2000
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Nancy has mentioned to me recently that they have changed manufacturers as you note above. Thus, I would fully expect them to do significant testing and to ensure that the new machine met their standards. I don't see that testing of the new manufacturer's product has any bearing on the quality of the previous product. I would much rather that they delay the release of the product until they are certain it meets their goals than to release something that is not the quality that they intend to provide. I have been very pleased with the KMT24 and am interested in seeing other tools that they offer.
Though I understand your frustration with the delay, I also think the title of the post here is misleading. The machine cannot be unreliable as you point out that it does not yet exist.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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northstar
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7911
posted
I had to read this a few times. I do agree the title may be misleading. Perhaps a more accurate title might be "biotools rude" or " biotools sales dept. lacks professional demeanor"
A five month un-notified delay, when the product had been orally promised in 3 weeks is not an error to sneeze at.
There was no contact within that 2 month wait period. Then when the customer calls, they are told another 4 months.
That is a huge difference. They took your card, and promised it in 3 weeks.
It warranted seller attempting contact with buyer, in my opinion.
These are expensive products, and people's health is at stake here. It warrants sensitive communications with a buyer.
There is professional responsibility involved here. They are in the health care field.
Professional salespersons need to know how to handle a customer who is reacting to poor service.
In a manufacturing business, if one is supplying a part, and there are quality problems, and delays, there is always he$$ to pay from the buyer.
Regarding "quality" of existing products:
Those that passed inspection were up to snuff, so the quality of operational and existing 24's cannot be assumed to be poor .
If there were rejects of the new manufacturer, then they are just making sure the new product when it is released, will perform as you want it.
There are usually problems when revamping or improving products. In that case, they should not have taken your credit card number until the product was ready to be released. All quality checks should have been done prior, including sample run checks.
Who knows, maybe they just had a tiff about pricing, and decided to go elsewheres.....they had switched manufacturers with the transition from 23 to 24 introduction, also.
Henson, if it is any help, I remember the "old" 24 also was delayed and delayed and delayed. "not ready", "need new manufacturer (old one had passed on)", etc. So this is not a unique experience.
I am sorry she hung up on you, though, and they did not initiate contact. Inexcusable in my book...poor customer relations. You also mentioned you had to provide a credit card twice, implying their record keeping has problems.
All this reflects on the sales dept., and not the machine. Unfortunately, it may lead to questioning the machine itself, whether warranted or unwarranted.
This does not question the theory, design, etc. of what is in the machine, nor of the designer. It is a business problem.
Business is business afterall.
North.
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Why throw out the baby with the bathwater? I totally agree with Scott's comments.
The KMT system is the best thing that ever came down the pike - and I am anxious to replace my big one (240) because the new one breaks out some of the specific treatment modalities (lymphatic drainage, pain, etc) but you can still fit it in your suitcase or handbag. We use it for an ongoing detox that no one can escape. If I get that mosquito bite, I use it.
They are trying to have a manufacturer where they can also keep it at an affordable price. I am sure that is not easy while at the same time making sure of quality.
Hope you just had a bad day that soon will pass, Henson. It's a good machine, sound basics, and better than anything else I tried. It actually was a strong factor in getting me well.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I encountered problems with buying the old 22 version with rudeness. I called to ask several questions as the video they sent was unclear and actually had incorrect information on how to use it. I was treated unkindly and will not do business with them in the future. I specifically had asked if the 22 version made noise and was told no and when it arrived it constantly beeped (which sets off my seizures). I was not given a refund. Hiker
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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henson2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 463
posted
Thank you all for the replies.
I may have been unclear in my specific points, and I will see if I can adjust the header.
However:
Why keep the manufacturer a secret? (Does anyone know the manufacturer?)
Is this Dr. K's decision, not to reveal the product-maker to consumers? Is there a reason for secrecy?
(A Doctor-friend of mine wondered if they were trying to get FDA approval, altho I do not understand this process myself).
Why not inform customers of delay? And why become more than discourteous in response to a patient's question? In this case, both doctor and patient had been told a specific delivery date, (give or take a couple of days either way). When that date came and went there was no communication from the company -- much less a new months-long delay!
And in particular: why deal with the public so rudely? I was not mean, abusive, or threatening. (Actually, I was initially speechless, and could not speak at all).
I am sure the response had less to do with me than the frustration of the situation -- probably many, many people are calling in now to ask where their product is.
However.... does a reasonable person do business with a company that hangs up on the customer?
I do see customer service as reflecting on the company and the product -- and the company's respect (or lack of it) toward the people buying their product.
I am wondering if Dr. K is aware of how the unexplained delays and non-existent customer service is coming across to the public, or if the desperation of Lyme patients is such that customer service doesn't matter -- they know they'll get Lyme patients buying anyway.
Of course I want to believe in the wonderfulness and hope of this product. I was prepared to spend that much money on that hope. Sadly, there is nothing about my interaction with this company that inspires confidence for me now.
The rep asked if I'd rather have a junky machine sent to me. I could get a junky machine tomorrow. There was no cause for that kind of sarcasm toward me.
She said she had nothing to do with it and *it was not her problem*. (Agreed, I believe completely she wasn't the cause; but does the company not care enough about its consumer base to provide courteous response to inquiries?)
She mentioned problems with the old manufacturer. It was not myself, but the doctor's receptionist who then asked me if there were problems with the first version.
I just don't know how to square sending $1800 on faith to a company whose manufacturer I am told is a secret, and whose representative couldn't care less about patient questions -- and who actually says as much!
(And which company is happy, apparently, to mislead doctors as well, because my own doctor, citing seeming inside knowledge, told me last month it was ready to be sent out).
Very clearly I hit a nerve for the rep -- that is, probably many, many people are calling now to ask where their product is. I just can't see her response as within a normal realm of reasonable, (or professional) conduct.
Hiker, I'm sorry you experienced rudeness, too. That is so much worse, if the incident of this delay isn't a kind of one-off, and they were rude in a different situation, too.
The *really* sad thing is that it simply isn't necessary to treat people badly on the phone. Had there been even a fraction of an "I am sorry" or "we know this is disappointing" -- *anything* in that vein would have changed the interaction immeasurably.
It's also sad that if it were any other product - clothing, books, a catalog company, etc., - we would have options, or even a different rep to talk with. In this case our need for treatment makes us have to choose between rude treatment and the possibility of a product that might help us. I am led to wonder if this is an accurate reflection of Dr. K's stance toward his patients.
Does this series of delays left unexplained to customers, secrecy about the manufacturer, and rudeness of interaction with the public, form an accurate picture of the researcher who has created this product? I think that's kind of important.
I am genuinely sad to write a message of this kind. It's the first time I've written in this way to Lymenet.
My sincere good thoughts to all who are on the road to healing, henson
**edited name of LLMD**
[ 05-10-2013, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]
Posts: 1067 | From East Coast | Registered: Dec 2000
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henson2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 463
posted
I looked up the Bio Tools website to see if I could communicate with Dr. Klinghardt. But the 'contact person' listed there appears to be Nancy.
My dad is a mainstream physician, and my progress is being watched closely both by him and a wide circle of his colleagues. After talking w. my LLMD about the KMT machine, my dad was persuaded to be open-minded about my trying it. He was giving me the $$ to pay for it.
Given other family members' hearing my end of the phone call with Nancy, there is no way my dad is now permitting me to even THINK about purchasing this machine.
I really wanted it to help me. And it might have helped more patients if other doctors saw it working in my case.
Is it that we're just desperate Lyme patients and will put up with anything? That's a real question; because I don't understand this kind of customer service.
As always my good wishes to everyone on this healing journey, henson
Posts: 1067 | From East Coast | Registered: Dec 2000
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
If you let a conversation that you felt was negative prevent you from a therapy that may be highly beneficial, that is unfortunate. I understand your frustration, but I would not close the door on a potentially useful option. The KMT24 was very useful in my experience and I am interested in whatever comes next to replace it.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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henson2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 463
posted
Hi, Scott.
I still have the Lyme bracelet you sent me, and I wear it to tell people about Lyme when they ask.
I do see your point, and appreciate your writing.
I think it's worth thinking about: if someone has any difficulty with the machine, or, like Hiker, has questions or needs to return it, Bio Tools may well not care about it or help you.
It was made very, very clear to me that they couldn't care less.
I would want that kind of information before I made a decision to spend that much money.
If other people had other experiences, well -- I wish I had, too!
If this product really IS helping so many people, someone should get to Dr. Klinghardt and let him know how his product is being represented to patients -- and to doctors also, who were also not informed about delays. My doc told me in mid August that it was ready to be sent out.
(Unless Dr. K. considers us all so desperate that we'll put up with anything -- I genuinely don't know. If that's true, that is interesting info).
It's moot for me now anyway. My parents were financing this for me, and my family heard my end of the conversation. I had won a victory in getting my physician-father to agree to purchasing and trying it for me. The phone call ended that opportunity pretty darn fast.
I think everyone considering spending that money should know what response they may encounter in the future if they need help or have questions.
I hope you are doing well, Scott. I appreciate your writing, and I wish you continuing good recovery.
Sincerely, henson
Posts: 1067 | From East Coast | Registered: Dec 2000
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SForsgren
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Member # 7686
posted
Same to you. I'm sorry you had the experience you did.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Foggy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1584
posted
How does your "mainstream physician" dad feel about your LLMD, alternative therapies, and the Lyme dichotomy in general?
Curious as I have 4 MDs in my family as well and have been there.
How's your chest pain?
Posts: 2451 | From Lyme Central | Registered: Aug 2001
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Greatcod
Unregistered
posted
I have invented a machine that blows in your ear and whispers "I love you". Won't cure Lyme, but raises your self esteem considerably. Send those checks and money orders NOW to Dr. Cod.
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Just for greater knowledge here- Scott, this is from your website where you do refer people to the KM24. Because your website is not supposed to be advertised here I am replacing your website addy in the following info from your site with your name. QUOTE:
(Scott) does not sell any products though may make a small referral fee for products you purchase from links within the site. (Scott) does not take responsibility for the accuracy of any information and suggests that you do your own research and consult your doctor. (Scott) is not responsible for any issues that you may encounter with the purchase of any products found through sites which it may refer you to.
*********************************************
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I really like my KMT and bought it from someone on this site who had bought an extra one (won't go into details).
I called Nancy about a month later to ask her some questions (my husband had called her once also) and she was very rude to me. I was surprised and shocked and couldn't figure out why. She didn't want to answer my questions.
Everyone has been so nice - like GiGi in helping me with my machine that I wasn't prepared for this. Finally I asked her what was wrong and she told me that I didn't buy my machine from her, she had already talked to my husband a time or two and all this without a fee.
I was a little stumped and told her I would gladly pay a fee, just please help me with the machine. She completely changed her tone and was very nice and gave me the information I needed.
When I told my husband, he said, "Well, she is a business woman and this is her business." Leave it to an engineer to be practical.
I just wish she had told me that up front as I was willing to pay. And I don't know her side of the story as there are usually three sides, ours, theirs and the truth - lol.
So that is my story. I do love my machine and would recommend it to anyone. I'm using it along with Buhner's Protocol.
posted
p.s. I just asked my husband a few questions.
The company my husband works for (GPS company) has 5 or 6 different manufacturers building electronic components for them. He said they wouldn't give out the name of the manufacturers of their equipment.
Biotools or whoever, gave the manufacturing company the specifications on how they want the KMT to be built. They are only doing what they are told to do.
The other issue is poor customer service which also has nothing to do with how good the KMT machine is.
CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
??? Cavey???
Just fyi if people did not know that there is renumeration involved in this process for people.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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I am not questioning whether the machine works or not, but I still believe Nancy should have answered your questions for free even though you did not buy the machine from her. What happened to kindness in our world? Plus by answering you questions nicely and for free you would probably recommend the machine to others and for them to call Nancy to buy one.
Hiker
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
henson2, I don't blame you for being upset about this - I would be, too.
Since Nancy seems to be the only contact for BioTools, perhaps you should call her and ask to be put in touch with 'her superior' or 'an officer of BioTools' and see what happens. After all, if Nancy states that "it was not her problem", then there must be someone else who's problem it is!
Somebody needs to get a message to the actual owners of BioTools that their representative isn't presenting a very favorable image of this company.
Nancy has already blown one sale of the new KMT machine - how many more sales has she prevented?
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
The problem here, Nancy is really only a therapist thrust into the position of representing BioTools which is a company offshoot of the Academy of Neural Therapy. She does not have the knowledge of a real systems development life cycle, prototyping, testing, and end user documentation. The documentation has always been poorly written but has improved some in the past year. If you have problems I suggest you speak with Nancy Kick, who is over the ANT and worked to split up Dr K's empire into various entities. Also there's the FDA aspect and have to tread carefully. Nancy told me she has to be extremely careful of who she talks to and what she says. I don't envy her position. Not having SDLC training, etc she's had to fly by the seat of her pants on this one. The KMTs we have are wonderful and my family would not be with out them. My Dad is taking chemo and is doing great ( 6 yrs ago, he almost died twice ), and we believe its due to the programs, of body balancing, normalization, etc.
Posts: 116 | From Plano, Texas, USA | Registered: May 2004
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Me too, I have VERY good results with the small KMT 24.
I got an initial difficult contact with Nancy too, got a problem with my machine but it was replaced with a new one, this time without deffect. It's working well so far.
I don't envy her position either, like Sue said.
Now that I do muscle tests myself, I can use the machine much better as I know where to place the eletrodes etc.
The machine saved me many times, it probably saved at least 2 teeth from being dead with root infections, it's probably saving another tooth now (with chronic pulpitis).
It helped me with all coinfections, it helped my little daughter with her acute lyme and coinfections. I find it wonderful when I 'sandwich' my brain, my belly, joints, I got immediate clear results many times. I'm using it for 1.5 years.
I attribute my improvements in about 20-30% to the KMT sessions.
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I m on the waitingn list for the KMT. Sorry I have to wait until January.
I appreciate Sue's point, too. That sort of response to Henson is unfortnate. I hate when I get so frustrated that I over react and alienate people. It doesn't feel good to them and it doesn't feel good to me.
Nevertheless, I have been with Dr K a few times and IMO he is truly and authentically caring and extremely knowledgable. That is the bottom line for me with this product. All the research I have done seems to back up my sense of the doctor.
I would hate to see someone not have a tool to help in recovery because of a clash of personalities. I also believe that it is not on the level of personality where we heal.
Posts: 830 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2005
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Foggy
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Member # 1584
posted
^ Any updates on this?
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