sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
My DS is only 4 days into antibiotics; diarrhea is already a problem.
from searching posts on this subject, i can see that the diarrhea could be caused by:
1. abx in general 2. especially zith, which he is on 3. yeast die-off- possibly? he began a probiotic -Theralac- for the first time too, on 1st day of abx. 4. herxing
whatever is causing it, what will help cushion his system/help with the diarrhea? he has to stay on abx, and isn't 1x day Theralac strong enough for a 40 lb kid?
after reading past posts, the only thing i can think i may done wrong with the Theralac is to mix it in with about a tablespoon of peanut butter and jelly on a less than a 1/2 piece of bread, when it is best taken without food?
Is it possible that little bit of food has destroyed the probot's usefulness and as a result my son has gotten diarrhea this quickly?
thanks for any suggestions. we're looking at a very very long time for him to be on abx, and it is worrisome to have a complication pop up this quickly.
dilly
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I'm not a doctor, but I know with my six-year-old son, if I give him activia with each dose, that helps his tummy and the diarrhea.
Hope this helps!
Jenn
-------------------- When given lyme make lymeade! A tick check a day keeps lyme away! [email protected] Raising awareness by creating as many lymebassadors as possible! Posts: 158 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2005
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Cobweb
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posted
You may have already learned this in your SEARCH-but it is important to keep probiotics and antibiotics separate for the probiotics to be effective.
I do not experience with Theralac though.
But I take my oral antibiotic first thing in the morning on an empty stomach-an hour before breakfast.
Then I take it again around 4 pm-at least two hours after eating lunch and an hour before supper.
Do they give directions for taking on the Theralac Bottle?
sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
Jenn - i'll give Activa a try, thanks for the suggestion.
Carol- Theralac's sole recommendation is relates only to dose, which is 1X a day for the first 2 weeks, and that is for adults.
i know to time it away from the abx, and dr. j actually specified the best time to give it, which i've been doing.
so if the Theralac isn't doing what needs to be done (still a ?), i don't think it is a matter of being taken too close to abx.
Theralac is such a good probiotic that i'm having difficulty imagining that an adult dose, taken each of the grand total of 4 days he's been on abx, has proven to be so insufficent. but not impossible?
thanks for applying your brainpower....
dilly
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
My doctor recommends dannon plain yogurt and theralac.
Posts: 129 | From NYC | Registered: Sep 2006
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
abx related diarrhea- saccharomyces boulardii!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
Yes. FOS, or fructooligosaccharides, are prebiotics that you can get by eating certain foods, and are required in larger quantities compared to Lactoferrin and LactoStim.
The following foods contain a unique source of soluable fiber (FOS) that stimulates probiotic bacteria. Eat some when you take Theralac!
Stomach Acid Exposure Test --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The photo to the right shows a Theralac� capsule before (top) and after (bottom) 90 minutes in stomach acid at pH 1.6. The outer cellulose Vegicap� has dissolved and a protective gel has formed in the approximate shape of the original capsule, the red color is from the grape skin extract which acts as a protective buffer.
The inside of the gel structure (broken open to show the difference) remains dry and at a higher pH that protects the probiotic bacteria while in the stomach. Note the lavender color of the inner contents indicating a higher pH, grape skin extract is lavender at pH > 4.0.
You need a different probiotic, it's not surviving the stomach acid. Sorry!
See about the microencapsulated children's chewable I posted on the other thread, maybe that will work better.
I wonder if you put an entire cap in with yogurt & banana if that would help.??? How does the acidophilus in yogurt survive the stomach?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
YES! The s. boulardii made a huge difference for me, along with probiotics or Theralac.
So important to take these 2 hours after the ABX, and I always take a dose at bedtime so it can work overnight.
I became constipated on too much s. boulardii, but there never seems to be such a thing as too much of a probiotic.
ABX kills B vitamins - need to replenish those as well, as some are made in the gut.
Theralac is expensive: you might try Theralac at night but a less expensive probiotic at intervals throughout the day. I did fine on just 2 Theralac a day. But you might need more initially to get the diarrhea under control first, then be able to reduce the dose.
ESG
Posts: 424 | From Connecticut, USA | Registered: Nov 2003
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
I believe the LLMD I go to has a chewable probitoic for children available . Seems I was given some when I ran out of my usual supply.
sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
The consensus seems to be about not enough probiotics, rather than a zith side affect, etc?
Sarah and EMG- ok, i'll definitely toss in some saccharin boulevardy (lousy spelling, i know)..
am i going to have the same problem that the incredibly-resourceful and helpful-even-with-her -head-about-to-explode Ali pointed out about the capsules being mandatory?
Thanks, as always, sultaness.
maybe the capsules being mandatory thing on the heaviest-duty probiotics is why i was told to go with wafers to begin with?
as far as timing. how does anyone with school age children give a probiotic 2 hours after morning ABX when kids leave for school before 8 in the AM?
He wakes up exhausted as it is- i can't see waking him up over an hour earlier than he's now getting up, and the school isn't going to mix probiotics in anything for us. Wafers again?
From the suggestion to give Theralac at night (still am not sure how to do that without capsule?) it sounds like even if all the Theralac goes where it needs to go, even more probots are good?
Does anyone know if kids require anywhere near the same many billions of CPU that adults do? I'm guessing that it's not very possible to give too too much, but i also don't want to throw money away--
sorry for my ongoing befuddlement.. dilly
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
My latest thought:
I didn't see any mention of children anywhere on Theralac's site. My guess is if you split the capsule, you're wasting your money. Otherwise they would have a recommendation for dosing kids. That would mean more money for them if they could sell for kids too.
Here, I think I would have to bring the probiotics in to the school with a note for the nurse andd DD would have to go to the nurse to take them. I would think wafers too.
He might just like those grape ones! They are really tasty, it's not like they're covering up a medicine taste. It might make your life a lot easier.
Ali
PS - I think the chicken soup is kicking in. Maybe give him some of that too. It might help with the herxes Might be best to just give the broth from it with some rice until the diarrhea clears up.
BRAT Diet for Diarrhea=Bananas, Rice, Applesauce,Toast.
Don't forget the Pedialyte, I think they make unflavored, not sure what the others are sweetened with. SmartWater works too, has electrolytes, no taste, just clean water.
Sure you know all that, don't know why I'm saying it.
That poor little guy I feel so sorry for him.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Zithromax caused major diarrhea for me, so yes, it could be the antibiotics.
Other things to consider: C. diff infection
other intestinal infections like Giardia or Crpyto.
Crypto is a parasite and outbreaks are going on around the US in various areas. I would take a stool sample in to the doc just to be sure!!!
Posts: 339 | From nowhere | Registered: May 2007
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
For my child all I needed was specific written instructions from the doctor and she was able to follow her med schedule as prescribed while in school.
It worked out well, because the timing was such that the medicines she balked at most at home were given in school-and she wasn't so likely to protest.
I think the probiotic you were trying to say is Saccharomyces boulardii. I take it- two capsules 2 x a day- but I notice the instructions say 1-3 capsules 3 x daily-so perhaps it can be reduced to a pediatric dosage.
Have you added this to your list of written questions for Dr. J ?
sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
KIDS AND THERALAC
Thank you so much to the person who PM'd me with the suggestion that I call Theralac directly with my questions.
I just did, and spoke with one of the owners of the company, Jeff, who is very Lyme-literate and who very graciously spent a lot of time answering my many questions.
Here's what i learned (I'm posting this info with his permission):
1. Each dose of Theralac has 90 billion CPU's out of the bottle (when kept per instructions); when in capsule form, 20 B of CPU's are guaranteed delivery to the gut.
2. If taken out of capsules and put into food, some percentage of organisms survive. HOW the powder is put into food makes a big difference.
-- if spread out and then mixed in, such as i was doing putting the powder into peanut butter and jelly, only about 10% of the organisms survive bile to make it to the gut.
(i'm not sure, come to think about it, if that 10 percent is of the original 90 billion CPU's or of the guaranteed 20 billion CPUs).
-- Jeff indicated that what is most ideal for kids is to take the powder out of the capsule but to KEEP IT CLUMPED TOGETHER as much as possible,and that bananas are a great way to do that.
perhaps it would work to hollow out the middle of a thick slice of banana, fill it up with theralac, then cover the hole with a bit more banana...
taken this way, roughly 50% of the organisms survive.
3. There is no standard recommended dose of probots to give kids, but per an ILADS luminary, 100 billion CPU per day is ideal for adults, and not too much to give kids.
4. Scheduling: morning abx, followed THREE hours later with probots. Supper with abc, followed by Theralac at a bedtime as close to 3 hours later than abx is preferable. Probots before bed allow the baceria to colonize undisturbed overnight...
5. BENEFIBER is a helpful adjunct supplement- it feeds biff bacteria, so boosts the probots performance, and can help with diarrhea for that reason.
6. Theralac is working on a kids' version which may be on sale within 4-6 months.
7. Jeff welcomes hearing directly from parents of Lymed kids who have questions- his number is:
800-926-2961 ext 5 his assistant is Sarah: 800-926-2961 ext 3
I'm going to copy this info as a new thread for parents who may need the info who aren't reading this particular thread.
thanks again, Lymenetters. this Board is an indispensable resource.
dilly
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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disturbedme
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Member # 12346
posted
It could be the abx. It was happening to me on a certain abx.
I was told by my LLMD to take Flora-Stor to try to help with the diarrhea. You could give that a try, maybe? I know they make kids Flora-Stor.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by sometimesdilly: as far as timing. how does anyone with school age children give a probiotic 2 hours after morning ABX when kids leave for school before 8 in the AM?
You could give your son a probiotic dairy drink, which he could drink at school. Such drinks are often tasty as well.
Also, probiotic dairy products (drinks, yoghurts) are in general better than probiotic pills, because they contain more life bacteria.
Another advantage of probiotic dairy products is that you also get a lot of the probiotic bacteria in your mouth, in contrary to when you swallow a pill. This helps preventing yeast overgrowth in the mouth.
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Might be best to just give the broth from it with some rice until the diarrhea clears up. 
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